What are my chances? - appreciate your advice!

[m3ddr3am]

Hello,

I would be a non-traditional applicant if applying to medical school. Ever since graduating with my masters I still have the desire to pursue medicine. However, due to lack of confidence and responsibilities (financially) I have not made it a priority. I found that I somewhat rationalized my way out of applying (convinced I am not good/smart enough for medical school and need to continue being a breadwinner in my household). Now that I am in my early thirties, and I still have the desire,  I want to be realistic and know what my chances are. Here are my Stats:

Education: Hons BSc, MSc

cGPA (undergrad): 3.45 (omsas scale)

ECs: volunteered in many humanitarian and research initiatives in undergrad, working in healthcare for over 4 years, 2 publications, experience presenting at conferences, participated in research and innovative projects after school, awards for community and research work 

I have not written the MCAT. Because of my age, my top choice would be Mac. I would be considered IP.
 

Do I stand a chance with my Stats above?

[MDee2B]

Hey  I’m not very familiar with Ontario, but I think it’s more or less a universal rule for med school in Canada: You’d have to get your undergrad gpa up, closer to ~3.8 to be competitive.

[MDee2B]

There are instances of ppl getting in with a gpa of 3.5, 3.6 etc, but these seem to be more the exception rather than the rule. I think if you want to significantly increase your chances, working on raising your undergrad gpa is the way to go.

[m3ddr3am]

26 minutes ago, MDee2B said:

There are instances of ppl getting in with a gpa of 3.5, 3.6 etc, but these seem to be more the exception rather than the rule. I think if you want to significantly increase your chances, working on raising your undergrad gpa is the way to go.

Thank you for your input. Given that I am working full-time. I may not be able to both do a second undergrad and prep for the MCAT at the same time. I feel at this point if I choose to continue working, I’ll need to either prepare for MCAT or do a second degree part time..unless doing it part time is not recommended. 

[MDee2B]

55 minutes ago, m3ddr3am said:

Thank you for your input. Given that I am working full-time. I may not be able to both do a second undergrad and prep for the MCAT at the same time. I feel at this point if I choose to continue working, I’ll need to either prepare for MCAT or do a second degree part time..unless doing it part time is not recommended. 

You definitely don’t want to spread yourself out too thin as the goal is to excel in each aspect of your application, which can be better achieved by focusing on one thing at a time, rather than getting mediocre results across the board. So I think you have the right attitude in choosing MCAT vs coursework, not both simultaneously.

As I mentioned, I’m by no means an expert for Ontario and don’t know exactly what some schools like/consider/value in terms of type of coursework, whether part time/full time, post bacc vs 2nd undergrad etc. Hopefully some others can chime in who have more Ontario-specific experience and give you more particular advice in that regard.

Generally though, I do think it would be wiser to prioritize your gpa first, and your MCAT second.

Firstly, there are schools in Canada where you don’t even need the MCAT (ex NOSM, Ottawa, McGill), but you will always need the gpa. Also, how’s your French? The 3 francophone schools in Quebec also don’t require the MCAT. So with a solid gpa, you would already have a chance at half a dozen schools, whereas the other way around (with a solid MCAT but mediocre gpa) i don’t think you have much of a chance anywhere (unless you have a really compelling, exceptional story to tell but even then).

Secondly, MCAT has an expiry date. Undergrad marks generally do not. Seeing as you’re working full time, suppose you do the MCAT first, then focus on bringing up your gpa second. By the time you’ve taken care of both (possibly several years), your MCAT may be nearing its expiry date, in which case you’d have to redo it. That wouldn’t be the case for your undergrad courses you would have taken to boost your gpa, which have longer validity.

 

I hope this helps you think things through a bit more. Definitely get some advice from those with more experience in Ontario, as i said before. I wish you good luck!

[bearded frog]

Basically all else aside, you need at least a 3.6 for a remote chance at acceptance but as the above posters say, closer to 3.8. Mac doesn't have any special formulas they just take all your undergrad grades. So online classes may be needed.

[m3ddr3am]

4 hours ago, MDee2B said:

You definitely don’t want to spread yourself out too thin as the goal is to excel in each aspect of your application, which can be better achieved by focusing on one thing at a time, rather than getting mediocre results across the board. So I think you have the right attitude in choosing MCAT vs coursework, not both simultaneously.

As I mentioned, I’m by no means an expert for Ontario and don’t know exactly what some schools like/consider/value in terms of type of coursework, whether part time/full time, post bacc vs 2nd undergrad etc. Hopefully some others can chime in who have more Ontario-specific experience and give you more particular advice in that regard.

Generally though, I do think it would be wiser to prioritize your gpa first, and your MCAT second.

Firstly, there are schools in Canada where you don’t even need the MCAT (ex NOSM, Ottawa, McGill), but you will always need the gpa. Also, how’s your French? The 3 francophone schools in Quebec also don’t require the MCAT. So with a solid gpa, you would already have a chance at half a dozen schools, whereas the other way around (with a solid MCAT but mediocre gpa) i don’t think you have much of a chance anywhere (unless you have a really compelling, exceptional story to tell but even then).

Secondly, MCAT has an expiry date. Undergrad marks generally do not. Seeing as you’re working full time, suppose you do the MCAT first, then focus on bringing up your gpa second. By the time you’ve taken care of both (possibly several years), your MCAT may be nearing its expiry date, in which case you’d have to redo it. That wouldn’t be the case for your undergrad courses you would have taken to boost your gpa, which have longer validity.

 

I hope this helps you think things through a bit more. Definitely get some advice from those with more experience in Ontario, as i said before. I wish you good luck!

Yes definitely want to ensure that I excel at each of the requirements. Thank you for sharing. I agree with the importance of boosting gpa. Unfortunately I’m not French speaking so I won’t be eligible for those schools. 

[m3ddr3am]

25 minutes ago, bearded frog said:

Basically all else aside, you need at least a 3.6 for a remote chance at acceptance but as the above posters say, closer to 3.8. Mac doesn't have any special formulas they just take all your undergrad grades. So online classes may be needed.

Thanks. Online classes that would be post baccalaureate classes? Is this something meds schools would look down on? 

[bearded frog]

7 hours ago, m3ddr3am said:

Thanks. Online classes that would be post baccalaureate classes? Is this something meds schools would look down on? 

They don't look down on it, some schools require them to be part of a degree or a certain number of credits to qualify for GPA adjustment.

[anon31]

At Mac, if you can get a high Casper and CARS (131-132), you can still get an interview with your GPA. That doesn't mean it is likely, but certainly possible. I got an interview with a 3.58 gpa and 131 CARS. As a non-trad, you may have an advantage with Casper as well. 

Most other Ontario schools do not use cumulative GPA. Some take your best 2 years, your most recent 2 years, or will weight your GPA by dropping your worst marks if you had a full course load. Look at each school specifically and calculate your GPA - it may not be as low as you think! Also, for these schools, you need to research how they count, or IF they count part-time coursework. You may be doing coursework for no benefit. For Mac, they will count ALL coursework, and it is true that increasing your GPA is helpful. However, it is also very challenging because each grade has such a small effect. I understand why people are recommending to improve your grades first, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

My approach was to write the MCAT for CARS only and then apply if I got a 130+. This also reduces the stress and time burden of writing the MCAT, as you focus on one section (the only section Mac looks at, if that is the school you are set on). I was thrilled to get a 131, and somehow I got an interview and an acceptance my first cycle. If I did not get in, my plan was to re-write the MCAT for all sections and re-apply to a wider range of schools, while taking a full-course load during that application cycle in case I had to apply a third time. You could do the CARS-only MCAT approach, and also take one course a semester at the same time, thus slowing bringing your average up, but not losing out on 2-4 potentially successful cycles because you're so focused on GPA. (But again, you made need to take full-time course work for it to count at other Ontario schools).

Oh, and you do get a small boost at Mac for having your Masters!