Nursing before med school... but in which university?

[GreyGreen]

Hello everyone
 

I have applied into nursing programs in Montreal (at UdeM, uSherbrooke (campus Longueuil) and McGill). I am very interested in working in health care and a nursing career is an option if I don’t get into med school.

I was simply wondering what are the best nursing programs in Montreal? I’ve heard some bad reviews for UdeM, saying that they easily kick out their students and that they have a different approach (apprentissage par problème). Is it the same for the other universities? 

I simply want to take the best decision regarding my nursing education. If there’s any former nursing student reading this, please reach out!
 

[CelluleB]

J'ai entendu dire le contraire! Que le programme de l'Udem est l'un des meilleurs à cause de l'apprentissage par problèmes. J'ai entendu dire que les hôpitaux de la province approchent davantage les étudiants de l'udem pour venir travailler chez eux, parce qu'ils sont les mieux formés et les plus préparés à affronter les problèmes.  (Mais c'est ça que j'ai entendu, il se peut que ça soit juste des rumeurs) 

Je ne crois pas qu'ils mettent dehors des étudiants si facilement, ça va dépendre de tes efforts et tes notes! Il faut maintenir une bonne moyenne et bien travailler, ça c'est sûr! Mais si tu es prêt à travailler il n'aura pas de problèmes selon moi. 

 

[GreyGreen]

@LGMed2021 J’ai entendu parler des mêmes points forts de l’UdeM que t’as mentionné; des avantages qui font en sorte que ses étudiants se démarquent sur le marché du travail. Mais dernièrement, j’ai également entendu dire que près du tiers de la cohorte d’automne a été renvoyée. C’est ce qui m’inquiète le plus. C’est pourquoi j’essaye de comparer le programme de l’UdeM avec celui de l’Usherbrooke et McGill.

Idéalement, il serait intéressant d’avoir l’opinion d’étudiants qui sont déjà passés par ces universités là.

[ADoseofLuck]

14 minutes ago, LGMed2021 said:

J'ai entendu dire que les hôpitaux de la province approchent davantage les étudiants de l'udem

Je suis d'accord avec ça. J'ai parlé avec plusieurs infirmières qui m'ont qu'elles trouvent que les étudiants de l'UdeM sont mieux préparés. Toutefois, j'ai aussi parlé à des étudiantes à l'UdeM et certaines m'ont dit qu'elles sont misérables et qu'elles ne se sentent pas bien soutenues par les enseignants de la faculté. Mais pour une personne autodidacte, le système d'enseignement de l'UdeM pourrait être plus favorable. 

Perso, je suis à McGill et j'adore ça. Mes amis et moi, on a pas eu des difficultés à se trouver un emploi. Je connais certains francophones qui vont à McGill qui se sont quand même fait embauchés par CHUM. Aussi, un avantage de McGill, c'est que tu es exposé au système anglophone, où les conditions de travail sont supposément meilleurs. 

[GreyGreen]

@ADoseofLuckMerci pour ton commentaire! 
Selon-toi, quels sont les points forts et les points faibles du programme de Nursing à McGill? As-tu vécu certaines difficultés? Est-ce réaliste d’envisager d’avoir de bonnes notes dans cette université?
En guise de comparaison avec l’UdeM, avait-tu l’impression d’être bien soutenue par le corps enseignant? 

Également, j’ai entendu dire que l’avantage avec l’UdeM, c’est que les cours sont enseignés d’une perspective infirmière; contrairement à McGill où les cours sont plus généraux (par exemple, le cours de physiologie va être enseigné pour l’ensemble des étudiants dans la faculté des sciences)....est-ce que je me trompe?

[ADoseofLuck]

J'ai étudié à l'UdeM aussi et je préfère l'ambiance de McGill de loin. La faculté Ingram School of Nursing n'est pas super grande, donc on se sent très rapproché aux enseignants. J'ai l'impression que comparativement à d'autres programmes, les professeurs en nursing sont passionnés par l'enseignement. Durant la pandémie, plusieurs étudiants ont vécu des situations difficiles et les profs étaient assez accommodant et flexibles.

20 minutes ago, GreyGreen said:

à McGill où les cours sont plus généraux (par exemple, le cours de physiologie va être enseigné pour l’ensemble des étudiants dans la faculté des sciences)....est-ce que je me trompe?

Tous mes cours sont donnés par la faculté de nursing par des infirmières, à part Pathophysiology et Pharmacology (qui sont donnés par un prof qui n'est pas un nurse, mais qui est tout de même génial). 
 

22 minutes ago, GreyGreen said:

Est-ce réaliste d’envisager d’avoir de bonnes notes dans cette université?

Oui, c'est très faisable d'atteindre une moyenne de 3.9+/4. Nursing est reconnu comme étant un programme "subjectif", mais à McGill, les stages (corrigés de manière subjective) sont Pass/Fail, donc aucune influence sur ton GPA.

27 minutes ago, GreyGreen said:

les points faibles du programme de Nursing à McGill? As-tu vécu certaines difficultés?

Cette session durant la pandémie, certains étudiants ont dû manquer certaines semaines de leur stage puisqu'ils étaient en contact avec une personne ayant le COVID. Au début, la faculté nous disait "C'est correcte si tu dois être absent en raison du COVID. On a un plan B et C en place pour vous." Mais là, vers la session pour les stages est bientôt finie et on nous dit: "Euh... finalement il va falloir refaire les heures". Donc, il y a un manque de transparence là-dessus.

Mais si ton but est médecine, je dirais que le point faible de McGill Nursing, c'est que tu n'es pas admissible à certaines universités en Ontario étant donné que ton stage est Pass/Fail, donc t'est pas reconnu comme ayant un "full course load" à chaque session. Mais si tu restes au QC, je ne pense pas que cest un problème.

[GreyGreen]

2 minutes ago, ADoseofLuck said:

Mais si ton but est médecine, je dirais que le point faible de McGill Nursing, c'est que tu n'es pas admissible à certaines universités en Ontario étant donné que ton stage est Pass/Fail, donc t'est pas reconnu comme ayant un "full course load" à chaque session. Mais si tu restes au QC, je ne pense pas que cest un problème.

@ADoseofLuck Merci pour ta réponse!

Y-a-t-il un moyen pour quand même pouvoir avoir un full course load et appliquer en med en Ontario?

 

[GreyGreen]

9 minutes ago, ADoseofLuck said:

Nursing est reconnu comme étant un programme "subjectif", mais à McGill, les stages (corrigés de manière subjective) sont Pass/Fail, donc aucune influence sur ton GPA.

Qu’est-ce que tu veux dire par « subjectif »?

[ADoseofLuck]

4 minutes ago, GreyGreen said:

Qu’est-ce que tu veux dire par « subjectif »?

Genre, les examens de tes cours de sciences sont objectifs. Soit tu as la bonne réponse ou non. Mais pour les stages, tu es évalué sur tes habileté, tes connaissances, ton professionnalisme, etc. par un instructeur. Les critères d'evaluations sont un peu plus flous, pis ta note dépend si tu t'entends bien avec ton instructeur ou non (ex: il te donne une mauvaise note en disant que tu fait trop d'attitude mais peut-être que tu as juste un caractère extravertie or something like that). C'est pour ça que les gens ne recommandent pas nursing comme tremplin pour med d'habitude.

[ceelbe]

I’m also in McGill nursing and I love it but I guess I had a different experience because I did my DEC first, worked as a nurse for a bit then I did the 2 year bac at McGill (finishing this semester). Overall I’d say go for it but in nursing we do a lotttttt of group work, at least at McGill. We do many many assignments and presentations in groups of like 4-6 people and so you have to work a lot with others and depend on their work to help you with your grade. And then in the end, like it was mentioned above, the mark you get is really subjective because it’s based on the teachers opinion a lot. So it’s a hit or miss in terms of if you’ll do well or not depending on the teacher. But I feel like nursing really gives you so much valuable experience that would help you in medicine. I think it really depends on the type of student you are, I know some people who have worked so hard in nursing school and gotten average or below average while I know others who just get it easier and don’t have to put nearly as much effort to get an A in classes. I work with nurses from both McGill and UdeM in one of the major McGill hospitals and honestly they’re all amazing. Whatever you learn in school is only a fraction of how much you learn once you’re out in the real world for even just a couple months, so really I think both schools will prep you just fine, and maybe go to whichever one you think you can get a better GPA at. Maybe if you’re better in English, go McGill, and if wayyy better in French go UdeM? Either way I’m sure you’ll be fine, and good luck!

[GreyGreen]

@ceelbe Thank you so much for your input! 
In terms of the number of students graduating at McGill, would you say that a lot of students fail/give up after the first year? Cuz I’ve heard that many students at UdeM got kicked out this semester for failing a class. What happens if you fail a class at McGill?

 

[ceelbe]

@GreyGreen I’ve never heard of anyone failing a class actually! But the thing is, I’m in the BNI group (bachelor of nursing, not bachelor of science in nursing), which is for those who did a DEC first, so we did all of our main clinical rotations (medicine, surgery, obstetrics, pediatrics, geriatrics) back in cegep and I guess that’s where people were more likely to fail? and then most people went and got their nursing license after cegep, started working and then started at McGill a couple months later. So I would say the group of nursing students that are part of my group are a lot less likely to fail because I guess they’re very knowledgeable (generally) about a lot since they’ve started working. So in my program I don’t know anyone who has failed so unfortunately I can’t comment about what happens if you do. I know someone couldn’t do their stage because they didn’t pass their licensing exam so they had to go back a year later and finish that stage which delayed their graduation date.

[GreyGreen]

Oh, I understand! Maybe someone like @ADoseofLuckcan answer 

[ADoseofLuck]

2 hours ago, GreyGreen said:

In terms of the number of students graduating at McGill, would you say that a lot of students fail/give up after the first year? Cuz I’ve heard that many students at UdeM got kicked out this semester for failing a class. What happens if you fail a class at McGill?

 

The policy at McGill is that you get kicked out if fail 2 clinical courses (your stage). If you fail one, you have to wait a year to take the next one since students follow a rigorous schedule and all courses are given once a year. For theoretical classes, I don't think you get kicked out for failing one (I know students had to wait a whole year to retake it and it also delays your graduation).

To remain in the program, McGill expects you to have above a certain GPA (I think 3.2), which is VERY DOABLE. Honestly, if you really put in the effort and you want to be a nurse, it's very hard to fail or get "kicked out".

As for the first year, our stage was at a CHSLD working with the geriatric population. We would spend time with residents, do their hygiene care, learn how to take vital signs. Understandably at times, the experience was sad and it made some students realize that healthcare/nursing wasn't for them so they quit. Every year I hear of a few students leaving the program, because they realize they do not want to be a nurse but overall, most people who get in to nursing will stay. Hope that helps  

3 hours ago, ceelbe said:

We do many many assignments and presentations in groups of like 4-6 people and so you have to work a lot with others and depend on their work to help you with your grade. And then in the end, like it was mentioned above, the mark you get is really subjective

I guess that's the difference between BNI and BScN, because we don't really have that many presentations or group projects (close to none in second year). Every semester for the first two years, you do have an inquiry-based learning class (like the apprentissage par problème for UdeM) where you work in teams but we weren't graded on oral presentations and I heard anecdotally that it was indeed harder for the BNI students.

[ceelbe]

33 minutes ago, ADoseofLuck said:

I guess that's the difference between BNI and BScN, because we don't really have that many presentations or group projects (close to none in second year). Every semester for the first two years, you do have an inquiry-based learning class (like the apprentissage par problème for UdeM) where you work in teams but we weren't graded on oral presentations and I heard anecdotally that it was indeed harder for the BNI students.

Oh wow lol yeah no in BNI we legit have a group project or assignment/paper in almost every class except anatomy, and pharm, and I guess a couple others but for sure a couple every semester. Wonder why it’s so different 

[Redface]

@GreyGreen

 

Hey, I’ve already graduated from RN school and I’d warn you to actually not use a nursing degree as a in grad for medical school application. My reasons are as follows:

1. Due to the subjective nature of exams it’s very hard to get a high GPA

2. Pass/Fail classes will mess your semester full course load 

3. Non of the prerequisite courses are included in nursing school and due to the lack of elective you will not be able to take them during your time in nursing school 

[GreyGreen]

Hey @Redface Thank you for your answer! You have mentioned some important points here.  
 

8 minutes ago, Redface said:

1. Due to the subjective nature of exams it’s very hard to get a high GPA

Why exactly? Have you developed strategies to get better at these subjective types of evaluations?

 

9 minutes ago, Redface said:

Pass/Fail classes will mess your semester full course load 

I believe that this is the most important point that you have mentioned. But I think it’s only like this at McGill. So we finally got a down point for McGill nursing XD I know that at UdeM and uSherbrooke, the stages are graded.

 

10 minutes ago, Redface said:

Non of the prerequisite courses are included in nursing school and due to the lack of elective you will not be able to take them during your time in nursing school 

As a Quebec student, I have already done the prerequisite courses...unless you meant that the premed classes aren’t included..?

Finally, what program do you suggest as a grad before med?

[Redface]

3 minutes ago, GreyGreen said:

Hey @Redface Thank you for your answer! You have mentioned some important points here.  
 

Why exactly? Have you developed strategies to get better at these subjective types of evaluations?

 

Hey! Yes over the years in nursing school I became more familiar with the question style and adjusted my approach to studying. The issue again is with subjectivity and answering questions that are science based. From my logic they never go hand in hand. Science is objective but in nursing (mainly in the upper year classes) they combine subjective notion, such as empathy, within the question. On test you have to pick the “most right answer” and not the “right” answer. 
 

In addition, very few people had good gpa (3.7 and above). The goal of most students was always to just pass. 
 

anyhow this was my experience and others might differ

 

3 minutes ago, GreyGreen said:

 

I believe that this is the most important point that you have mentioned. But I think it’s only like this at McGill. So we finally got a down point for McGill nursing XD I know that at UdeM and uSherbrooke, the stages are graded.

nice!

3 minutes ago, GreyGreen said:

 

As a Quebec student, I have already done the prerequisite courses...unless you meant that the premed classes aren’t included..?

yes in my nursing school non of the premed classes were included

3 minutes ago, GreyGreen said:

Finally, what program do you suggest as a grad before med?

Honestly whatever interests you. Med schools don’t care if you did violin. Just get a good gpa. 
 

Personally, if I was to do it all over again I would have taken a easy undergrad like Kin and if I was not able to get into med school I would just use my transfer credits to complete nursing school in 2 years. Unfortunately I did nursing first so now I’m doing a 2nd degree to apply to med school. 
 

 

[GreyGreen]

10 hours ago, Redface said:

2nd degree to apply to med school. 

What’s your 2nd degree?

[Redface]

23 minutes ago, GreyGreen said:

What’s your 2nd degree?

Kinesiology. It’s much easier than nursing