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Congratulations to those who matched in the NRMP today!


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I know a guy who went to DO in mid/central USA DO school and matched today, although NRMP won't release the specialty/location until Friday. I think his stats weren't competitive enough for Canada but a lot of these DO schools take a more "holistic" approach, which can be a plus for some people. The downside is they are quite strict when it comes to pre-req courses.

I was talking to IMG (not CSA) who have matched to NRMP before or who are contemplating. My gut feeling is CSA have been squeezing IMGs for a while in Canada. I tend to advise IMG (not CSA) to strongly consider NRMP rather than putting all bets on Carms. Of course a lot of them are older, have family etc, so each have their own limitations. Nonetheless it seems IMG who have done some research or medicine related stuff tend to have more success at NRMP, mostly family and pathology, some IM, etc. 

I am not up to date on this, but I wonder how has the merger of MD and DO residencies change the NRMP. 

All the best to those who have to SOAP.

 

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I think that IMGs may have better luck with the US just from sheer numbers. Also the USMLE is great equalizer, it tends to let you know where you stand in terms of competitiveness so you can target accordingly. A residency is a residency and you'll get your licence, but unlike Canada with every program being university affiliated and highly scrutinized with provincial resident "unions", there are hundreds of programs in the US that are less savoury, run by hospitals themselves in the middle of nowhere, and somewhat prey on the less compeditive applicants for cheap labour.

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24 minutes ago, bearded frog said:

I think that IMGs may have better luck with the US just from sheer numbers. Also the USMLE is great equalizer, it tends to let you know where you stand in terms of competitiveness so you can target accordingly. A residency is a residency and you'll get your licence, but unlike Canada with every program being university affiliated and highly scrutinized with provincial resident "unions", there are hundreds of programs in the US that are less savoury, run by hospitals themselves in the middle of nowhere, and somewhat prey on the less compeditive applicants for cheap labour.

USMLE is becoming pass fail next year. It would be interesting to see what happens to IMGs after the change. 

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15 hours ago, bearded frog said:

I think that IMGs may have better luck with the US just from sheer numbers. Also the USMLE is great equalizer, it tends to let you know where you stand in terms of competitiveness so you can target accordingly. A residency is a residency and you'll get your licence, but unlike Canada with every program being university affiliated and highly scrutinized with provincial resident "unions", there are hundreds of programs in the US that are less savoury, run by hospitals themselves in the middle of nowhere, and somewhat prey on the less compeditive applicants for cheap labour.

Yeah of course, it sucks to be IMG no matter how you put it. Some residency / fellowship there are just pure labor camp. I mean what can you do, for IMG sometimes a choice is better than no choice. Some are just so beaten down after doing years of exams and research or working as PSW or nurse assistant it's still a way out, if they just bow down like a yes-man for few years.

I remember seeing an ad for fellowship, a "small" but "busy" community hospital in a run down neighbourhood in a huge metro area with a mere departmental count of 5 generalists offering a 1 year fellowship. They keep reposting the same ad, I guess it's too easy to figure out it's just a work camp paying you 70K for doing 500K worth of work.

I think pass-fail Step 1 will generally harm IMGs. They still have to study hard to pass it, but now they have to all kinds of extra stuff like research, shadowing or whatever to beef up their CV or do extra well on CK to differentiate themselves. 

Really honestly on paper it's all fair and transparent but it's a lot of under the table kinda stuff. Like some IMG will do research or fellowship for a many years, earning minimal, just to have a crack at matching at that institution and begin again earning minimal as PGY1. And that's if they get that chance in the first place to actually do something there, maybe through personal connection, ass kissing or whatever.

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9 hours ago, bearded frog said:

 

To be fair, 3/4 of the people you listed have either low scores, or red flags (as noted leave of absence and failed step, or just low step 1 scores. 

Truly sucks for the 24x/24x with LOA - that must sting.

Take head either way to readers: Always try and get into a USMD/USDO program first before considering IMG options, the safety is unrivalled. 

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23 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

To be fair, 3/4 of the people you listed have either low scores, or red flags (as noted leave of absence and failed step, or just low step 1 scores.

No doubt. I just snagged the most recent ones I could find, but there's also a few with above average USMLE and no known red flags, but they would be the exception not the norm. I'm just trying to draw attention to the fact that IMG is not smooth sailing, and due to exposure bias we usually only hear about the success stories.

Unfortunately we cannot know the real match rate of CSAs applying for the US match.

Their data includes them will all other non-US IMGs, which had a advertised match rate of 61.1% in 2020, which is the highest it's ever been, and is in the 30% some years. However, that is the match percentage of applicants that received at least one interview. If you use the total number of applicants, the match rate is 47.1%

We have no reason to assume that Canadian non-US IMGs would match less than the average non-US IMGs, unless there is a strong preference for previously established practitioners in other countries to desire retraining to to work in the US, but I don't think that's the case, so it is likely that the 61% number is probably closer to the real percentage of CSAs who apply to the US match. Clearly going IMG provides an avenue to match, but not the >90% for USMD/USDO/CMG. We also have to assume that these are more likely to be relatively noncompetitive specialties and less desirable programs, but again the data only breaks it down as a match rate for those who at least received an interview so it is obviously skewed up as its a match rate for applicants who were at least somewhat compeditive.

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1 hour ago, JohnGrisham said:

To be fair, 3/4 of the people you listed have either low scores, or red flags (as noted leave of absence and failed step, or just low step 1 scores. 

Truly sucks for the 24x/24x with LOA - that must sting.

Take head either way to readers: Always try and get into a USMD/USDO program first before considering IMG options, the safety is unrivalled. 

Agreed!

No all CSA can do great but good proportion do well!! 

My brother finished a 6 year medical school after high school. Got 258 on Step 1, 276 on Step 2. Matched to Radiology in Top 10 program. You can also match to very competitive specialties if you wish as a CSA. A lot of his friends matched to competitive specialties as well!! Sometimes I even feel that the education my brother received allowed him to be a stronger medical student that me ( in a Canadian school)...

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On 3/16/2021 at 11:53 AM, Findanus said:

The equalizer will migrate to become USMLE step 2, as it is only step 1 that is changing to pass/fail.

Step 2 CS has also been discontinued. Removing the clinical skills part definitely changes the game as well! Not sure having everything riding on the step 2 CK exam is ideal either but at least success won't be dependent the same sort of medical "trivia" that the step 1 uses. 

 

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21 minutes ago, rmorelan said:

Step 2 CS has also been discontinued. Removing the clinical skills part definitely changes the game as well! Not sure having everything riding on the step 2 CK exam is ideal either but at least success won't be dependent the same sort of medical "trivia" that the step 1 uses. 

 

This text looks like what a label maker would do.

 

1 hour ago, bearded frog said:

Easier than typing Canadian IMGs every time when comparing US-IMGs and non-Canadian/US IMGs.

I dunno, seems a little bit prejudiced, but maybe I'm being too sensitive about it. Not calling you that of course, but CSA defines a graduate on their citizenship and not their education, and that feels a bit off to me.

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1 hour ago, Findanus said:

I dunno, seems a little bit prejudiced, but maybe I'm being too sensitive about it. Not calling you that of course, but CSA defines a graduate on their citizenship and not their education, and that feels a bit off to me.

Only Canadian citizens or PR can participate in CaRMS, and I include PR in CSA, so while I use IMG most of the time it is absolutely not prejudicial to to define CaRMS eligible medical graduates who did not attend medical school in the US or Canada as "Canadians studying abroad".

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19 hours ago, bearded frog said:

Only Canadian citizens or PR can participate in CaRMS, and I include PR in CSA, so while I use IMG most of the time it is absolutely not prejudicial to to define CaRMS eligible medical graduates who did not attend medical school in the US or Canada as "Canadians studying abroad".

 

I get what you mean and you are right. Considering that, however, there seems is an underlying current of the term CSA being used to describe Canadians who couldn't get into med school here that went to an offshore school, and I suspect it is because they don't want to be associated with the negative connotations of IMG and FMG. What do you think?

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I think it's just semantics and don't really care one way or the other. If you've read many of my posts you'll know that I think that going abroad is a terrible idea and that people who look at it as an easy way out somewhat deserve the pain that comes their way, at the same time it does provide an option that's successful for about half, and I understand the drive.

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On 3/19/2021 at 3:09 PM, Findanus said:

 

I get what you mean and you are right. Considering that, however, there seems is an underlying current of the term CSA being used to describe Canadians who couldn't get into med school here that went to an offshore school, and I suspect it is because they don't want to be associated with the negative connotations of IMG and FMG. What do you think?

I'm a little confused. Certain situations excluded, what other reasons are there for Canadians to apply to med outside of Canada/US, isn't that the exact reason they go abroad?

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