UBC vs UofT Family Medicine Sites

[Medapp2017]

I have never been to Vancouver and I'm feeling very lost trying to rank the UBC FM sites - I applied to 8 sites: St Paul, Fraser, Surrey-South Fraser, Coastal, Victoria, Nanaimo, Abbotsford-Mission, and Chilliwack.

I don't have a strong preference on the structure of the program, but I do prefer urban over rural setting. My understanding is that St Paul, Fraser and Surrey-South Fraser are urban, so are Coastal (1st year), Victoria and Nanaimo (but these 2 are on the island so more difficult to get to Vancouver compared to Abbots and Chilliwack). 

I am more familiar with Toronto's streams of GTA vs. Barrie-Newmarket vs. Rural Areas, how do these UBC sites compare with UofT's streams? 

If anyone can share more info regarding how we should go about ranking these sites, I would really appreciate it! 

 

[frenchpress]

35 minutes ago, Medapp2017 said:

I have never been to Vancouver and I'm feeling very lost trying to rank the UBC FM sites - I applied to 8 sites: St Paul, Fraser, Surrey-South Fraser, Coastal, Victoria, Nanaimo, Abbotsford-Mission, and Chilliwack.

I don't have a strong preference on the structure of the program, but I do prefer urban over rural setting. My understanding is that St Paul, Fraser and Surrey-South Fraser are urban, so are Coastal (1st year), Victoria and Nanaimo (but these 2 are on the island so more difficult to get to Vancouver compared to Abbots and Chilliwack). 

I am more familiar with Toronto's streams of GTA vs. Barrie-Newmarket vs. Rural Areas, how do these UBC sites compare with UofT's streams? 

If anyone can share more info regarding how we should go about ranking these sites, I would really appreciate it! 

 

I can’t really say how you should go about ranking the ubc fm sites, because whats going to work best for you is pretty personal in terms of preference. But I can try to give you more information about the BC places, as I am pretty familiar with all of these cities and have lived/worked in most. If you don’t care about programs structure, then what are you looking for in terms of location - What does ‘urban’ mean to you? Do you drive / have a car or are you looking for accessible public transit? Do you want a variety of things to do culturally or restaurants? What are your considerations for cost of living / what’s your budget? Do you care about demographics / types of patients at all (e.g. addictions)?

[Medapp2017]

1 hour ago, frenchpress said:

I can’t really say how you should go about ranking the ubc fm sites, because whats going to work best for you is pretty personal in terms of preference. But I can try to give you more information about the BC places, as I am pretty familiar with all of these cities and have lived/worked in most. If you don’t care about programs structure, then what are you looking for in terms of location - What does ‘urban’ mean to you? Do you drive / have a car or are you looking for accessible public transit? Do you want a variety of things to do culturally or restaurants? What are your considerations for cost of living / what’s your budget? Do you care about demographics / types of patients at all (e.g. addictions)?

Thanks in advance!!

I'm looking for a vibrant kind of city life, i.e. good variety of restaurants and activities.

I can drive, I can lease a car if it makes life easier (I'm from the East coast so don't have a car available in BC), but if public transit is convenient enough, then I don't mind saving $$$.

In terms of cost of living, I hope to rent at a reasonable price, but I'm also ready to pay because my understanding is that nowhere is really reasonable in Vancouver... My current rent is just over $1000 for a studio, if I can get a place for $1000-1500 for studio or 1 bedroom, it would be great. 

Don't really care about patient demographics. 

 

[frenchpress]

1 hour ago, Medapp2017 said:

Thanks in advance!!

I'm looking for a vibrant kind of city life, i.e. good variety of restaurants and activities.

I can drive, I can lease a car if it makes life easier (I'm from the East coast so don't have a car available in BC), but if public transit is convenient enough, then I don't mind saving $$$.

In terms of cost of living, I hope to rent at a reasonable price, but I'm also ready to pay because my understanding is that nowhere is really reasonable in Vancouver... My current rent is just over $1000 for a studio, if I can get a place for $1000-1500 for studio or 1 bedroom, it would be great. 

Don't really care about patient demographics. 

 

Abbotsford, Chilliwack, Nanaimo and Surrey are all very suburban, quite a bit of sprawl that makes them surprisingly hard to get around on foot / by bike. Chilliwack and nanaimo in particular are more like large towns in terms of stuff to do, and I’d classify Chilliwack as ‘semi-rural’. I would also describe Abby, Chilliwack and Nanaimo as pretty ‘sleepy’, certainly not vibrant. Chilliwack, for example, has 1-2 good sushi places, one decent pho place, etc., and pretty much everything closes at 9-10pm. Surrey and Abbotsford probably have the most variety in terms of restaurants, and there is a bit more going on in terms of entertainment, especially in Surrey. Rent in the 1000-1500 range should be doable for a decent place in all of these places (assuming no pets). Car is a must in Abbotsford, Chilliwack, Nanaimo, and Surrey lifestyle wise IMO, and for Chilliwack and Abby it’s a must for getting into Vancouver. In chilliwack, for example, it’s small enough that you could live near the hospital and walk/bike to most of the gp and specialist clinics... but I am not sure I’d recommend it (bike paths don’t exist there). Nanaimo and Abbotsford in my experience you’ll likely need a car to get to some GP/specialist clinics from the hospital. Surrey you’ll likely want a car as well, but you have the option of the skytrain into Vancouver for leisure stuff which can be very convenient. 

You might be able to make due without a car some of the time in Victoria, and in Vancouver Fraser / St. Paul’s / Coastal - many of your rotations will be at the city in the main hospitals, but you will need to be prepared to go to community hospitals sometimes. Modo (car share) is an option in these places as well. Public transit and biking are great options in these cities for day to day, but not great if you want to get out of town to do outdoorsy things, or coming home from rotations late at night. Vancouver has great transit, even out to Richmond, north van, Burnaby, etc. Victoria is not nearly as well served by transit as Vancouver, and outside of downtown/university area or using it to get to the to the ferry I find it pretty slow/challenging. Vancouver is certainly vibrant - has loads of diversity and restaurants, and loads to do generally (outside of the pandemic anyways). I feel like Victoria’s restaurant scene is a far from Vancouver’s, but there’s still good variety and quality, especially downtown. Outside of downtown I also find Victoria pretty sleepy - it still feels very geared towards retirees, although that’s continued to change over the last 10-15 years, as there are some more tech jobs, young professionals, etc. than in the past. 

Rentwise < 1500 will be difficult to find in Vancouver anywhere near the main hospitals. There ARE studios and occasionally 1 bedrooms in the 1400-1500 or less range around VGH, in the west end, etc. but they’re pretty hard to come by and/or can be quite run down. You’ll have many more options in the  1600-1900 range. North van (coastal) is similar. The high end of your price range is probably more doable in Victoria.

It’s hard to say which one is best. I feel like these are all pretty different places, and I know people who have been happy doing residency in all of them, as well as people who have hated living in pretty much all of them as well for one reason or another (too conservative or too expensive or too boring, etc). I recommend looking up rents on pad mapper, looking at restaurant listings on Yelp, ‘walking around’ the main drags on Google maps / exploring time to get between different hospitals and neighbourhoods in traffic, reading up on their politics, etc. You can also try searching ‘what’s it like to live in ___’ on the rEd dIt threads for these cities.

Edited April 6, 2021 by frenchpress

[Persephone]

I used transit in Victoria and Vancouver as a worker and student quite successfully. I agree with above poster about Abbotsford, Chilliwack and Nanaimo. They are suburban/exurban. Victoria has a lot going on arts and culture wise and I was never bored living there. The weather also cannot be beat in Canada (if you like mild weather and nature in your city that is, my own biases). If you were to do rotations there you'd probably need a car for anything community based outside the municipalities (Victoria, Oak Bay, Saanich and Esquimalt). Rent is cheaper than Vancouver or Toronto but still not cheap. I enjoyed the city of Victoria proper for it's walkability and just general relaxed vibe.

[zoxy]

I can speak for the Island.

The rain shadow of the mountains in the Olympic peninsula makes Victoria the sunniest and driest part of Coastal BC. It gets around 200 more hours of sunshine a year than Vancouver and around 20 cm less rain. It's small enough to not worry about traffic but big enough to have decent amenities. The bus service is slow and unreliable so you will need a car. I think the training sites are spread around the Greater Victoria area which would make a car a greater necessity.  Average incomes in Victoria are actually decently high due to all the provincial government workers, and there are decent amenities for them. Also great if you're outdoorsy. There are more trails than you can imagine.

Now the cons. It's hard to meet new people, Victoria can be very insular. Would not recommend if you're single, since the city is geared towards retires and university students(newly wed and nearly dead). The pace of life is also super slow so if you like an action packed life, the Island is not for you. It's a great place to raise a family though. Housing, while cheaper than Vancouver, is quite expensive and growing at a very quick pace.

Also, I'd rank Nanaimo dead last. It has all of the drawbacks of Victoria with none of the positives. It also has a larger drug problem than Victoria, which might interest some physicians while being a problem for others.

Both places have the drawback of being on the island. It can be isolating if you have friends on the mainland, and BC ferries isn't exactly quick or cheap. Skiing is also substandard compared to Vancouver. Mt. Washington can't hold a candle to Whistler.

Hope this is helpful, I can't speak for the mainland places, but I think Victoria is a gem. If I were in my 30's and had a family, I can't think of a better place in Canada to live.

[Medapp2017]

9 minutes ago, zoxy said:

I can speak for the Island.

The rain shadow of the mountains in the Olympic peninsula makes Victoria the sunniest and driest part of Coastal BC. It gets around 200 more hours of sunshine a year than Vancouver and around 20 cm less rain. It's small enough to not worry about traffic but big enough to have decent amenities. The bus service is slow and unreliable so you will need a car. Average incomes in Victoria are actually decently high due to all the provincial government workers, and there are decent amenities for them. Also great if you're outdoorsy. There are more trails than you can imagine.

Now the cons. It's hard to meet new people, Victoria can be very insular. Would not recommend if you're single, since the city is geared towards retires and university students(newly wed and nearly dead). The pace of life is also super slow so if you like an action packed life, the Island is not for you. It's a great place to raise a family though. Housing, while cheaper than Vancouver, is quite expensive and growing at a very quick pace.

Also, I'd rank Nanaimo dead last. It has all of the drawbacks of Victoria with none of the positives. It also has a larger drug problem than Victoria, which might interest some physicians while being a problem for others.

Both places have the drawback of being on the island. It can be isolating if you have friends on the mainland, and BC ferries isn't exactly quick or cheap. Skiing is also substandard compared to Vancouver. Mt. Washington can't hold a candle to Whistler.

Hope this is helpful, I can't speak for the mainland places, but I think Victoria is a gem. If I were in my 30's and had a family, I can't think of a better place in Canada to live.

I'm single and would like to be in a place where I can meet new people lol... Just curious, are the university students in Victoria mostly taken?? haha 

How much are ferry rides from Victoria/Nanaimo to Vancouver? 

[zoxy]

28 minutes ago, Medapp2017 said:

I'm single and would like to be in a place where I can meet new people lol... Just curious, are the university students in Victoria mostly taken?? haha 

How much are ferry rides from Victoria/Nanaimo to Vancouver? 

I mean, UVic is mostly undergrads so up to you if you're cool with that. Doesn't have too many grad programs/students from what I remember. I didn't go there ,so maybe someone else could chime in. Also, UVic was jokingly known as the Univeristy of "Chicktoria" when I was living there. The male to female ratio was supposedly 2 to 3.  If you're a guy, your odds are good.

As for ferry prices, a car on its own is 60 bucks. Each person is 17 bucks. Those prices are for one way sailings. Of course, you could walk on and save some money but taking public transit to the terminals is very slow. Would take over an hour from downtown Victoria to Swartz bay and an hour and a half from Tsawwassen to downtown Vancouver.

Edit: I just looked up UVic's gender ratio. It's 46:54 Male to Female according to Macleans. Globe and Mail had it at 43:57 in 2011 so it's gotten more balanced.

[Medapp2017]

2 hours ago, frenchpress said:

You might be able to make due without a car some of the time in Victoria, and in Vancouver Fraser / St. Paul’s / Coastal - many of your rotations will be at the city in the main hospitals, but you will need to be prepared to go to community hospitals sometimes.

Thanks so much for such a detailed response!!

Could you comment more on St. Paul's vs Vancouver Fraser? My understanding is that the St Paul's stream residents do most of their rotations at St Paul's Hospital (which isn't the prettiest hospital given its age), while Fraser people rotate at multiple hospital sites (Royal Columbian, Burnaby General, Mount St. Joseph’s, Richmond, BC Women’s and Children’s, Eagle Ridge Hospital, Peace Arch Hospital). While I find the older St Paul's Hospital unattractive, but I imagine it would be nice to be able to rent close to the one hospital I work at, rather than having to commute to numerous hospitals (unless these Fraser sites are actually easy to commute in between?)

[frenchpress]

13 minutes ago, Medapp2017 said:

Thanks so much for such a detailed response!!

Could you comment more on St. Paul's vs Vancouver Fraser? My understanding is that the St Paul's stream residents do most of their rotations at St Paul's Hospital (which isn't the prettiest hospital given its age), while Fraser people rotate at multiple hospital sites (Royal Columbian, Burnaby General, Mount St. Joseph’s, Richmond, BC Women’s and Children’s, Eagle Ridge Hospital, Peace Arch Hospital). While I find the older St Paul's Hospital unattractive, but I imagine it would be nice to be able to rent close to the one hospital I work at, rather than having to commute to numerous hospitals (unless these Fraser sites are actually easy to commute in between?)

Yeah, that’s my understanding as well. As UBC medical students we often have to commute all over Vancouver, and living centrally / in east van it’s really not that bad. Some of my classmates did commute by bike and transit to some of the more central hospitals.  From my place I can get to all of those places in 15-30 min by car, with the exception of peace arch hospital (which is more like 40 min). One benefit of working in the suburbs is you tend to be driving against the busiest traffic at rush hour, especially if you’re starting early. The west end is a nice place to rent and St. Paul’s has positive aspects too (but it is older as you say). 

[Medapp2017]

So based on the proximity to downtown/vibrancy, these should be my top 3: St Paul = Vancouver Fraser > Coastal (tho 4 months of super rural Pemberton/Squamish/Gibsons/Sechelt/Powell River/Bella Bella/Bella Cool) 

What about Victoria vs Surrey? Both sub-urban vibe, both 2+ hours from downtown Vancouver, Victoria has the inconvenience of being on island but better weather. 

Nanaimo vs Abbotsford? Both even less urban than above, both <2 hours away from downtown Vancouver, but Nanaimo is on island... So I guess Abbots > Nanaimo. 

I'm feeling like Chili would be last because of its semi-rural vibe... 

 

[Medapp2017]

5 minutes ago, frenchpress said:

St. Paul’s has positive aspects too

I read that St Paul's is a great place for advocacy & social justice-kind of cases, do you know if they still have a good exposure of the bread & butter urban family medicine? 

What are the positive aspects of St Paul's you're referring to? 

[frenchpress]

40 minutes ago, Medapp2017 said:

I read that St Paul's is a great place for advocacy & social justice-kind of cases, do you know if they still have a good exposure of the bread & butter urban family medicine? 

What are the positive aspects of St Paul's you're referring to? 

Personally St Paul’s is not my favorite place to work, but I found my preceptors there were always excellent. I also prefer the Cerner emr (at St Paul’s) to the mishmash of meditech and PCIS in VCH/Fraser Health.

Edit: I don’t have a great sense of what the bread and butter FP exposure is like compared to other sites.

[zoxy]

20 minutes ago, Medapp2017 said:

So based on the proximity to downtown/vibrancy, these should be my top 3: St Paul = Vancouver Fraser > Coastal (tho 4 months of super rural Pemberton/Squamish/Gibsons/Sechelt/Powell River/Bella Bella/Bella Cool) 

What about Victoria vs Surrey? Both sub-urban vibe, both 2+ hours from downtown Vancouver, Victoria has the inconvenience of being on island but better weather. 

Nanaimo vs Abbotsford? Both even less urban than above, both <2 hours away from downtown Vancouver, but Nanaimo is on island... So I guess Abbots > Nanaimo. 

I'm feeling like Chili would be last because of its semi-rural vibe... 

 

I did not know Vancouver Coastal had those rural locations! I'd kill for four summer months there. Admittedly, winter would be horrific.

Also Surrey is not two hours from downtown Vancouver. It's roughly thirty minutes with zero traffic and up to an hour with peak traffic. Surrey and Victoria are very different in character though. Surrey, along with Richmond, is one of the most ethnically diverse parts of the lower mainland. It's the centre of BC's South Asian community, Vancouver's Brampton if you will. Victoria is much less diverse.

[Medapp2017]

10 minutes ago, zoxy said:

I did not know Vancouver Coastal had those rural locations!

The first year of Coastal is in North Shore, but the second year includes 4 months of rural communities further up north - I'm not sure how much control we have for which 4 months of the year though... 

11 minutes ago, zoxy said:

Surrey is not two hours from downtown Vancouver.

Oh right! For someone like me who's looking to experience Vancouver, how would you recommend that I rank Victoria, Nanaimo, Surrey and Abbots? 

[frenchpress]

24 minutes ago, Medapp2017 said:

The first year of Coastal is in North Shore, but the second year includes 4 months of rural communities further up north - I'm not sure how much control we have for which 4 months of the year though... 

Oh right! For someone like me who's looking to experience Vancouver, how would you recommend that I rank Victoria, Nanaimo, Surrey and Abbots? 

If the goal is experiencing Vancouver, I would rank Surrey > Abbotsford > Victoria > Nanaimo. 

[frenchpress]

1 hour ago, Medapp2017 said:

I'm feeling like Chili would be last because of its semi-rural vibe

We generally call it The Wack 

[Butterfly_]

1 hour ago, frenchpress said:

Personally St Paul’s is not my favorite place to work, but I found my preceptors there were always excellent. I also prefer the Cerner emr (at St Paul’s) to the mishmash of meditech and PCIS in VCH/Fraser Health.

Edit: I don’t have a great sense of what the bread and butter FP exposure is like compared to other sites.

Could you elaborate on why St Paul’s was not your favorite place to work? 

Also, do you know if the UBC FM admin staff is supportive and accommodating to residents? Aka flexibility with scheduling etc?

 

Thanks!!

[frenchpress]

7 hours ago, Butterfly_ said:

Could you elaborate on why St Paul’s was not your favorite place to work? 

Also, do you know if the UBC FM admin staff is supportive and accommodating to residents? Aka flexibility with scheduling etc?

 

Thanks!!

You can DM me for specifics about experiences there. But in general I just don’t enjoy working in large urban hospitals as much. 

From my research, every UBC FM site has its own admin and often have their own vacation policies, scheduling policies, etc. I can’t comment specifically on how supportive or accommodating they are at any given site, because I don’t have direct experience with those staff as a Med student unfortunately!