Unfilled positions after R1 match 2021

[indefatigable]

On 5/21/2021 at 10:27 AM, guest1993 said:

I went to a program with a high number (30+) of unmatched students my year and that is exactly what many people did. They did second iteration CaRMs, interviewed for a handful of programs, but did not rank anything. Of course, you cannot disclose to your UME that you did this but there is no way for them to see your rank list. 

Most schools now I understand have an extended clerkship option if you go unmatched. There is a really high success rate for matching to what you want the following year. Some programs (I think U of A?) have a 5th year MD/MBA option as well. 

The "unmatched stigma" is less so now I think. Most people who did the extra year received many interviews and matched to competitive specialties the following year. 

Interesting - so even if the match is sort of unstable (i.e. almost statistically guaranteed that an increasing current-year CMGs will go unmatched), maybe supports that are in place means that most will have no issue in a future cycle.  It does come back to an earlier point regarding a break down of matching success of previously unmatched CMGs though (although many would get packaged into "current year" graduates with clerkship extensions).  

It makes sense that French-speaking QC schools would not have such policies given that almost all the unfilled positions are in QC (with graduates that almost all the time would have no issues with further training in French) - the schools could not be seen as not promoting FM.

[bearded frog]

4 hours ago, bread said:

I know at our school, we were told that unmatched students are only eligible to do a fifth year if they participated in the second round. If not, they would graduate and be on their own for that gap year. 

I have heard anecdotes of this in the past as well. Seems silly if it's that easy to game. I think being able to do more electives/rotations is a huge benefit to unmatched applicants. Most were probably unlikely and went all in on a compeditive specialty but would have easily matched to a less competitive discipline. One assumes the second time around they back-up broadly if they try again for a compeditive specialty It's not clear from the CaRMS data how many end up in their back-up as opposed to being successful for their desired field on the second attempt.

[NoMatchNoProblem]

7 hours ago, bread said:

I know at our school, we were told that unmatched students are only eligible to do a fifth year if they participated in the second round. If not, they would graduate and be on their own for that gap year. 

My school doesn't offer a 5th year and provides zero support if you decide to go unmatched for a year. That being said, most of my unmatched colleagues were extremely proactive in finding their own opportunities and matched into specialties like internal, ophthalmo, vascular surgery and orthopedics.

I foresee more and more unmatched students using the gap year to end up in the specialty they desire in the future as it is proving to be a successful way to get what you want. 

[GolfTangoFoxtrotOscar]

On 5/20/2021 at 7:36 PM, JohnSnow2021 said:

The CaRMS data snapshot has been released:

https://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2021-R-1-data-snapshot.pdf

Very interesting that the prior years CMG graduates with some postgraduate training had a 42% (28/(32+28+6)) match rate. So transfers appear to be a bit stronger this year

[GolfTangoFoxtrotOscar]

On 5/20/2021 at 4:22 PM, shikimate said:

hemepath and GP are good spots for any last minute desperate people, job market is pretty good at least.

what do they usually do with those military leftover spots? I am sure there are people who would love to take them in return for some years of service.

There's a lot of random requirements for fitness and security that make those MOTP spots iffy for people at the last minute end of CaRMS.

The CFAT and security clearance background checks I don't think they'll try and bypass again given a particular person who got in in 2018's... "behavior"...

[bearded frog]

8 hours ago, GolfTangoFoxtrotOscar said:

Very interesting that the prior years CMG graduates with some postgraduate training had a 42% (28/(32+28+6)) match rate. So transfers appear to be a bit stronger this year

That 32+28+6 is all prior year graduates, both with and without postgraduate training, so 42% is not an accurate rate for just prior year graduates with previous post-grad training. In fact (assuming the 32 unmatched includes PGY1s who are trying to rematch), the match rate must be at least 47%, or likely higher for applicants with previous residency training, as we can remove the 6 who matched with no prior training, and we don't know how many of the remaining 32 are previous matched vs previous unmatched.

[CaRMSthrowaway__]

On 5/20/2021 at 10:57 PM, ACHQ said:

Although IM has gotten more competitive, I don't think we are anywhere near where people have to apply to the US. I suspect that if you are an IM gunner and want only IM, and aren't a freak, you will match to IM in Canada (maybe not your top spot but a spot), especially if you apply broadly. I do think it has gotten competitive enough though that people should really think twice about backing up with it given it may not be a safe bet anymore. I also think that we are reaching a point that the only specialty that one could possibly parallel plan with IM *safely* is FM.

When I saw the IM match results this year I was shocked that there were ZERO spots left after the first iteration. For such a large program I would expect at least 5-10 spots leftover (albeit in most years most of those spots were left over in french Quebec).

I'm not nearly smart enough to determine why this happened (COVID exposing medical students more to acute IM? more people ending up with their backup in IM? generally becoming much more competitive? all the above?). I wouldn't be surprised if there is a fair number of transfers *out* of IM next year.  But at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if this is a real result. IM is a great specialty with lots of breadth and with job prospects and lifestyle better than most specialties (which I think now medical students are considering more and more, which is smart).

I suspect this will be cyclical (just like all things) and things will swing the other way for IM eventually, especially once jobs dry up in hot-to-live areas (which will happen very soon)

How soon do you see IM jobs drying up in desirable locations (such as Toronto or the surrounding communities?)

[ACHQ]

5 hours ago, CaRMSthrowaway__ said:

How soon do you see IM jobs drying up in desirable locations (such as Toronto or the surrounding communities?)

Unfortunately IM is not a monolith given the variety of subspecialties. What I was referring to was jobs in hospital based/acute care settings. If that is not something someone wants to do and just wishes to have an outpatient practice (where you can just join a clinic or set up your own) then jobs can never technically dry up (although in theory if you saturate a market with enough IM sub-specialists then you might have issues with not enough referrals/patient loads, but that would be extremely rare imo)
 

I’m terms of hospital jobs, some subspecialties right now have no jobs even if you do another fellowship ontop of it (GI, Nephro). Others may have the rare job openings once in a while (Cardio, ICU). I don’t see these any of these specialities (Cardio, GI, nephro, ICU) having any great job prospects anytime soon and suspect that until things change systemically they will have issues for a while. 

in my area (GIM) there are some jobs now but I foresee that in maybe 3-4 years jobs being either very tight to non-existent even in GIM. 

Note I don’t speak about IM locums, those will continue to exist to some degree given people are less willing to work weekends, nights and holidays.

Also note that don’t speak about any academic IM job prospects (as I’m in the community). Academic jobs though overall are less plentiful then community jobs and always require something extra (masters, PHD) + doing a CA for at least 3 years (if not longer)

[bread]

Hey friends  I’m posting on behalf of a friend who doesn’t have an account, and who is applying to the leftover spots currently. When submitting applications, is it advisable for her to email the PDs to express interest in the program? She’s not sure if this will help or hurt her. There are a few spots left that she is very interested in, and she’d very much like to match this year as opposed to doing a fifth year and applying next year. Any other tips for the post-match process would be really helpful!

[indefatigable]

45 minutes ago, bread said:

Hey friends  I’m posting on behalf of a friend who doesn’t have an account, and who is applying to the leftover spots currently. When submitting applications, is it advisable for her to email the PDs to express interest in the program? She’s not sure if this will help or hurt her. There are a few spots left that she is very interested in, and she’d very much like to match this year as opposed to doing a fifth year and applying next year. Any other tips for the post-match process would be really helpful!

Unless your friend is a French-speaker, there are only a few positions that are listed in the post-match process (FM & FM/PH).  The application deadline seems to have passed (over a week ago).

https://www.carms.ca/match/r-1-main-residency-match/program-descriptions-post-match-process-r-1/ 

I think your friend will need to do their best to prepare for a fifth year unfortunately.  For the French-speaking spots it may be better to contact directly. 

[Persephone]

10 minutes ago, indefatigable said:

The application deadline seems to have passed (over a week ago).

Where are you seeing a deadline listed as over a week ago? On the timeline for post-match the deadline to both apply and for programs to review applications is June 10th. It is fast approaching though and like @indefatigable said there are very few English speaking spots open (only 2 FM and 1 PHPM +FM), so chances of getting a spot are quite low and may have already been filled at this point, but might as well give it a shot.

[indefatigable]

1 minute ago, Persephone said:

Where are you seeing a deadline listed as over a week ago? On the timeline for post-match the deadline to both apply and for programs to review applications is June 10th. It is fast approaching though and like @indefatigable said there are very few English speaking spots open (only 2 FM and 1 PHPM +FM), so chances of getting a spot are quite low and may have already been filled at this point, but might as well give it a shot.

On the actual program descriptions it list deadlines of May 27th & May 28th for both those programs.  

[bread]

38 minutes ago, indefatigable said:

Unless your friend is a French-speaker, there are only a few positions that are listed in the post-match process (FM & FM/PH).  The application deadline seems to have passed (over a week ago).

https://www.carms.ca/match/r-1-main-residency-match/program-descriptions-post-match-process-r-1/ 

I think your friend will need to do their best to prepare for a fifth year unfortunately.  For the French-speaking spots it may be better to contact directly. 

 

23 minutes ago, Persephone said:

Where are you seeing a deadline listed as over a week ago? On the timeline for post-match the deadline to both apply and for programs to review applications is June 10th. It is fast approaching though and like @indefatigable said there are very few English speaking spots open (only 2 FM and 1 PHPM +FM), so chances of getting a spot are quite low and may have already been filled at this point, but might as well give it a shot.

Sorry; I should have clarified! She’s already submitted the applications and hasn’t heard back yet. But she’s wondering if she should be emailing the the PDs directly in the meantime to express interest, but isn’t sure if this could potentially help or hurt her more (or if there’s anything else she can do right now to increase chances). 

[indefatigable]

14 minutes ago, bread said:

Sorry; I should have clarified! She’s already submitted the applications and hasn’t heard back yet. But she’s wondering if she should be emailing the the PDs directly in the meantime to express interest, but isn’t sure if this could potentially help or hurt her more (or if there’s anything else she can do right now to increase chances). 

Given that the process is about to officially end,  I think that there is very little risk in emailing the program administrators directly with a polite interest/follow-up message. 

[Persephone]

1 hour ago, indefatigable said:

On the actual program descriptions it list deadlines of May 27th & May 28th for both those programs.  

Ah that makes sense!

[shikimate]

Might as well email, call, etc. Chances are slim but who knows, nothing much left to lose.

Also I am bit surprised the leftover pathology spots weren't offered post-match. She could also give those programs a call if she's absolutely desperate to get in somewhere.

[bread]

22 hours ago, indefatigable said:

Given that the process is about to officially end,  I think that there is very little risk in emailing the program administrators directly with a polite interest/follow-up message. 

 

17 hours ago, shikimate said:

Might as well email, call, etc. Chances are slim but who knows, nothing much left to lose.

Also I am bit surprised the leftover pathology spots weren't offered post-match. She could also give those programs a call if she's absolutely desperate to get in somewhere.

Thank you guys very much - this is helpful! Yes, she’s open to matching to any specialty, so I’ll suggest that to her too re: the pathology spots.

[Sonostudenti67]

Hey, I was wondering if you guys think that, given IMs increasing competitiveness, it is safe to apply only to IM? (I’m a French-speaker studying at Université de Montréal but I’m bilingual so I will be applying everywhere in Canada). I personally was planning to do that, since I can apply to every program and I am planning to max out my electives in IM and the subspecialties I’m interested in (rheumatology/endocrinology). However, I’m kind of worried now given the current trend. 

[Persephone]

1 hour ago, Sonostudenti67 said:

Hey, I was wondering if you guys think that, given IMs increasing competitiveness, it is safe to apply only to IM? (I’m a French-speaker studying at Université de Montréal but I’m bilingual so I will be applying everywhere in Canada). I personally was planning to do that, since I can apply to every program and I am planning to max out my electives in IM and the subspecialties I’m interested in (rheumatology/endocrinology). However, I’m kind of worried now given the current trend. 

I think if you're bilingual and applying to both French and English programs, and as you say EVERY program, that gives you a much higher likelihood of matching if applying only to IM. Psychiatry also continues to increase in competitiveness, or at least it's hovering around 0.9 for ratio of seats to applicants, and I would also recommend to most people if they only want psychiatry to apply to as many programs as they can or else backup. Making the most of your first (and hopefully only) CaRMS cycle is the best strategy in my opinion.

[Sonostudenti67]

12 minutes ago, Persephone said:

I think if you're bilingual and applying to both French and English programs, and as you say EVERY program, that gives you a much higher likelihood of matching if applying only to IM. Psychiatry also continues to increase in competitiveness, or at least it's hovering around 0.9 for ratio of seats to applicants, and I would also recommend to most people if they only want psychiatry to apply to as many programs as they can or else backup. Making the most of your first (and hopefully only) CaRMS cycle is the best strategy in my opinion.

Thanks a lot for replying! I have a strong preference for IM so this is somewhat reassuring. I just find it very conflicting whether or not I should backup with FM (I don’t really want to do FM but I fear going unmatched). 
I was also wondering if any schools are particularly friendly to fully bilingual applicants (francophone but no accent in English). I will apply everywhere, but I’m hoping places like Ottawa or Manitoba would be friendly due to French minorities in these areas?

[Persephone]

21 hours ago, Sonostudenti67 said:

Thanks a lot for replying! I have a strong preference for IM so this is somewhat reassuring. I just find it very conflicting whether or not I should backup with FM (I don’t really want to do FM but I fear going unmatched). 
I was also wondering if any schools are particularly friendly to fully bilingual applicants (francophone but no accent in English). I will apply everywhere, but I’m hoping places like Ottawa or Manitoba would be friendly due to French minorities in these areas?

I will say that some lovely people who are going to make excellent physicians did not get as many interviews as they had hoped or missed out on interviews from places they were sure they would get one this year. It made it feel a bit touch and go during the rest of the cycle, but thankfully they all matched to IM. It's such a crapshoot, so if you have the energy and the will to apply quite widely and to back up perhaps in a few locations that's gonna give you the best safety net.

I knew a general surgery resident who was at a southwestern Ontario program and did their med school at a French med school beforehand, so it's definitely possible. They had a very strong French accent (but excellent English). I am sure Ottawa and Manitoba will see your bilingualism as an asset! I had several classmates at my med school again in SW-ern Ontario who were fully bilingual and no accent in English as well and they matched all over the country including BC.

[Sonostudenti67]

40 minutes ago, Persephone said:

I will say that some lovely people who are going to make excellent physicians did not get as many interviews as they had hoped or missed out on interviews from places they were sure they would get one this year. It made it feel a bit touch and go during the rest of the cycle, but thankfully they all matched to IM. It's such a crapshoot, so if you have the energy and the will to apply quite widely and to back up perhaps in a few locations that's gonna give you the best safety net.

I knew a general surgery resident who was at a southwestern Ontario program and did their med school at a French med school beforehand, so it's definitely possible. They had a very strong French accent (but excellent English). I am sure Ottawa and Manitoba will see your bilingualism as an asset! I had several classmates at my med school again in SW-ern Ontario who were fully bilingual and no accent in English as well and they matched all over the country including BC.

Thanks! I’m happy to hear we can match to other provinces too from Quebec!

[indefatigable]

On 6/21/2021 at 9:49 PM, Sonostudenti67 said:

Thanks a lot for replying! I have a strong preference for IM so this is somewhat reassuring. I just find it very conflicting whether or not I should backup with FM (I don’t really want to do FM but I fear going unmatched). 
I was also wondering if any schools are particularly friendly to fully bilingual applicants (francophone but no accent in English). I will apply everywhere, but I’m hoping places like Ottawa or Manitoba would be friendly due to French minorities in these areas?

While it's great that you're fully comfortable in English, part of the challenge matching outside of QC is the differences between English/French -speaking medical school cultures/training.  

UdeM is the most well-known, but I think it doesn't quite have the research culture (at least at the med student level) as its rival McGill.  It shouldn't be too much of an issue in IM, but it's just to give you an idea.  

In terms of targets - Ottawa does have a bilingual program at Montfort which you could apply too.  This is separate from the English stream.  

Most grads stay in QC:  obviously some degree of self-selection - but French-speaking schools also have had lower match rates by first choice preference probably also partly due to language/culture and preference for QC.

Out of its classes of 300+.

• In 2020, UdeM had 3 people match outside of QC (2 Ottawa and 1 NOSM).
•  In 2019, there were 8 though, mostly across Ontario.

(Table 42 CaRMS data).

https://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/2020_r1_tbl42e.pdf

https://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/2019_r1_tbl42e.pdf