Evaluations

[gogogo]

I've been reading U.S. med school forums, and there, a 3/5 evaluation, though formally labelled as "meets expectations," is implicitly understood to mean that the student did not do well. Does the same apply to Canadian clerkship evaluations? What does "meets expectations" mean in the Canadian clerkship context and how do program directors view that? I'll be applying to FM in Ontario.

[bearded frog]

Evaluations vary - some may simply be "does not meet expectation" "meets expectations" "exceeds expectations", or have stuff like "borderline meets expectations"so it really depends on the rubric. IMHO if you're an average clerk doing your core rotation you're getting meet expectations unless you're doing poorly even after we discuss it with you, or you're obviously going above and beyond in knowledge/work/studying. People doing rotations in their desired specialty, electives, and 4th year rotations are more likely to have more knowledge, skills, comfort on their rotation and more likely to exceed expectations (relative to the average 3rd year clerk). I think PDs and staff understand that, my residency evals are graded on multiple aspects during our rotation but its mostly meets expectations with a couple of exceeds in a few domains. The US is cutthroat though so some people just put 5s down the board and it obviously frustrates students who were evaluated properly at 3/5. If you want an exceeds expectations ask the residents/staff ahead of time what they would like to see of a clerk who exceed expectations.

[takasugi]

3 hours ago, bearded frog said:

Evaluations vary - some may simply be "does not meet expectation" "meets expectations" "exceeds expectations", or have stuff like "borderline meets expectations"so it really depends on the rubric. IMHO if you're an average clerk doing your core rotation you're getting meet expectations unless you're doing poorly even after we discuss it with you, or you're obviously going above and beyond in knowledge/work/studying. People doing rotations in their desired specialty, electives, and 4th year rotations are more likely to have more knowledge, skills, comfort on their rotation and more likely to exceed expectations (relative to the average 3rd year clerk). I think PDs and staff understand that, my residency evals are graded on multiple aspects during our rotation but its mostly meets expectations with a couple of exceeds in a few domains. The US is cutthroat though so some people just put 5s down the board and it obviously frustrates students who were evaluated properly at 3/5. If you want an exceeds expectations ask the residents/staff ahead of time what they would like to see of a clerk who exceed expectations.

Do these matter for CaRMS?

[bearded frog]

1 minute ago, takasugi said:

Do these matter for CaRMS?

There is a MSPR which is kind of like a med school report card that gets submitted but what is actually on it and how programs use it to evaluate applicants varies wildly. https://carms.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115004153143-What-is-an-MSPR-

[Persephone]

29 minutes ago, takasugi said:

Do these matter for CaRMS?

I was told at least for psychiatry they do to some extent and I would imagine to varying degrees they do matter for other specialties. As I understand it, in psych, your final evals are read by the selection committee, usually to screen for red flags and to check that you performed in a satisfactory way across specialties. It helps to also have comments that speak to your strengths in those evaluations. They can be like extra reference letters. I always told preceptors what my main area of interest was and they tended to write evals that highlighted my strengths that would be valuable to psychiatry that I showed on rotation. Even just a comment that mentions being engaged despite not being interested in the field can be valuable, shows you're a good clerk and a team player.

[lolz3]

1 hour ago, bearded frog said:

There is a MSPR which is kind of like a med school report card that gets submitted but what is actually on it and how programs use it to evaluate applicants varies wildly. https://carms.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115004153143-What-is-an-MSPR-

As of the 2021 cycle*, the MSPR is now standardized in terms of what's on it, but it definitely still remains true that its ++inconsistent how programs use it.

*in reality it will probably only be standardized for the 2022 cycle

[takasugi]

On 5/1/2021 at 4:40 PM, bearded frog said:

There is a MSPR which is kind of like a med school report card that gets submitted but what is actually on it and how programs use it to evaluate applicants varies wildly. https://carms.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115004153143-What-is-an-MSPR-

Does pre-clerk stuff end up here in addition to evaluations from rotations? I know at McMaster we get a little blurb from our tutors for each MF. Does that end up on the MSPR as well?

[Persephone]

5 hours ago, takasugi said:

Does pre-clerk stuff end up here in addition to evaluations from rotations? I know at McMaster we get a little blurb from our tutors for each MF. Does that end up on the MSPR as well?

I am a graduating student from McMaster and yes, your final evals from tutorials and pro comp end up on your MSPR and transcripts, both of which residency programs require for applications.

[takasugi]

On 5/3/2021 at 5:40 PM, Persephone said:

I am a graduating student from McMaster and yes, your final evals from tutorials and pro comp end up on your MSPR and transcripts, both of which residency programs require for applications.

.

[Persephone]

2 hours ago, takasugi said:

Ok thanks! I got a final eval from my tutor that I'm quiet. Should I look to get this removed or changed? 

I think it's fine as long as it doesn't become a glaring pattern on your subsequent evaluations. Just work on being more noticeably engaged. It's an annoying system, but you will get through it eventually and in residency whether or not you are reserved becomes less important afaik (depending on specialty maybe)!

[Persephone]

2 hours ago, takasugi said:

Ok thanks! I got a final eval from my tutor that I'm quiet. Should I look to get this removed or changed? 

Also the impression I got is that they look more closely at your clerkship core rotation final evals than pre-clerkship stuff. A one-off comment about being quiet, or even a couple isn't the end of the world and is a very mild critique. I definitely wouldn't attempt to remove it from just one eval and not having it show up on subsequent evals would be a good sign of self-improvement.