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29 minutes ago, DayIsNight said:

I’m actually not sure this is totally true! There are a number of studies showing bio section of MCAT has correlation with marks in med school, but CARS indicates actual quality of care in residency and onwards. Specifically, for clinical skills and the potential people have to improve over time.

 

CARS is the section being emphasized more and more, and honestly I think it’s the right move

I've heard this anecdotally as well. Never made any intuitive sense to me but my intuition is irrelevant anyway. What is important is that I haven't seen any data in the US or Canada about this supposed correlation between CARS/Verbal and quality of care after medical school. If anyone knows of such a study I'd love to read it.

In fact, the data says that while MCAT or GPA may be a good predictors in the first few years of medical school, by the time that people are in residency or fellowship it becomes increasingly irrelevant. I'd be surprised if any correlation held so many years into medicine/residency/practice.

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I believe the main reason CARS is being emphasized in Canada is a simple issue of demand and supply. There are too many premeds and the mast majority of them probably had a science related major. So the easiest way to cut the numbers down would be using a higher CARS cutoff. Plus it’s also the one section that’s hardest to improve on, so it helps keep the numbers low, as schools simply don’t have the resources to evaluate 5000+ applications. 

 

2 hours ago, DayIsNight said:

I’m actually not sure this is totally true! There are a number of studies showing bio section of MCAT has correlation with marks in med school, but CARS indicates actual quality of care in residency and onwards. Specifically, for clinical skills and the potential people have to improve over time.

 

CARS is the section being emphasized more and more, and honestly I think it’s the right move

It’s too bad. I also immigrated to this country as an adult, I was able to score well on the other 3 sections but 124 CARS. I certainly don’t think I have “poor” people skills or low potential. It’s unfortunate that the Canadian system worked against me in this case. I guess as humans we all like to believe things in our favour. I’m not sure about other schools, but UBC seems to be quite holistic when it comes to assessing AQ/MCAT scores (post interview). 

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It’s worth considering too that many people with excellent grades are increasingly having very excellent NAQ scores and extracurricular experiences as well. Although there are always people that may lack some knowledge about medicine, it can be equally questionable that a subjective assessment of ECs will determine who will be a better physician. How well an EC gets rated can hinge on a persons ability to word their own activity well.

The simple fact is that EVERY part of the admissions process is frustrating for someone, and it’s important to not build assumptions and resentment to those who get in, and to not belittle and demean those who do not.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/3/2021 at 6:07 PM, zoxy said:

There was a leak of their admissions criteria in 2012 to the CBC. They didn't take NAQ into consideration post interview for IMP, VFMP, and SMP back then. It was 50 percent interview, 25 percent GPA, and 25 percent MCAT. I have no reason to believe that it has significantly changed since then. Medical school admissions in Canada as a whole is garbage. It's an algorithm that struggles with edge cases like OP.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ubc-medical-school-standards-called-into-question-1.1162992

 

I'd take some of the stuff that you read on these forums with a grain of salt. Canadian school's are very algorithmic in their admissions criteria. The whole purpose of having an MMI in lieu of traditional interviews is to take "bias" out of the equation. I would be shocked if they reintroduced subjective criteria post interview for final admissions determination. It's still probably the same simple Interview + GPA+ MCAT as before.

If the "50 percent interview, 25 percent GPA, and 25 percent MCAT" were true, I don't think I would have been able to get in this year. I heard it is a full file review post-interview, and my MCAT is a 514 (126 CARS) while my OGPA is an 84.8% with C+ grades in my upper years (86% AGPA). I do think I did well in my interview, but if GPA was really worth 25%, I feel like I would have been red flagged for how my GPA had such a downward trend and for the C+ grades in life science courses.

From my understanding of this mysterious admissions system, I really believe interview weighs a lot more than MCAT, references, or even GPA. I was even told by some that GPA wasn't considered post-interview unless it's a tie breaker. I focused on making sure I presented my best self and reflected on my lived experiences for my interview – this is what I think helped me gain admission. However, take this all with a grain of salt, none of us truly know what the system is actually like. Best of luck to any of you applying this year or anyone who is currently waitlisted ❤️

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10 hours ago, plsdontletthisbeawaste said:

If the "50 percent interview, 25 percent GPA, and 25 percent MCAT" thing was true, I really don't think I would have been able to get in this year. I heard it is a full file review post-interview, and my MCAT is a 514 (126 CARS) while my OGPA is an 84% with C+ grades in my upper years. I do think I did well in my interview, but if GPA was really worth 25%, I likely would have been red flagged for how my GPA had such a downward trend.

You have a 514 which is the average MCAT of matriculants. You also claim to have an 84.8 OGPA and an 86-87 AGPA.  That AGPA is just 2 percent below the IP matriculant average. I don't understand why you'd think you wouldn't be able to get in if it were 50 percent interview, 25 percent GPA, and 25 percent MCAT. Performing above average in the interview would easily overcome the slightly lower GPA in that scenario.

I'm not necessarily saying that the admission process is exactly as I described it. Just saying that such a process does not preclude your getting in with those stats. Also this isn't the US, Canadian schools don't care about downward or upward trends(unless they specifically consider the last two years like Queens and Western). For UBC the AQ is 100 percent AGPA and no trends or anything else goes into it. You wouldn't get red-flagged for a C+ in your senior year.

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8 hours ago, zoxy said:

You have a 514 which is the average MCAT of matriculants. You also claim to have an 84.8 OGPA and an 86-87 AGPA.  That AGPA is just 2 percent below the IP matriculant average. I don't understand why you'd think you wouldn't be able to get in if it were 50 percent interview, 25 percent GPA, and 25 percent MCAT. Performing above average in the interview would easily overcome the slightly lower GPA in that scenario.

I'm not necessarily saying that the admission process is exactly as I described it. Just saying that such a process does not preclude your getting in with those stats. Also this isn't the US, Canadian schools don't care about downward or upward trends(unless they specifically consider the last two years like Queens and Western). For UBC the AQ is 100 percent AGPA and no trends or anything else goes into it. You wouldn't get red-flagged for a C+ in your senior year.

Thanks for this, you make a fair point. Over the past couple years, been hearing a lot of different things about the application process, and from what I had thought, I assumed a full file review post-interview meant looking past the AGPA and looking at the specifics of our application (including our courses, how we performed against the average, etc.). I had a trainwreck of a time during my second and third year especially, so I was really convinced that my GPA would stop me from pursuing medicine. I had gotten C+ grades for life science courses, so I was worried a full file review would reveal this. I also had a 126 for CARS which I was worried could be considered low. However, you're helping me realize that perhaps my anxiety deluded me into thinking my chances were much lower than they actually were.

At the end of the day, I am still incredibly grateful for my admission this year, because I went through undergrad convinced that a GPA under 85% wouldn't cut it for medicine and that I needed an MCAT above 520 to justify my C+ grades. Knowing how difficult it can be, I now just want to be encouraging and reassure anyone else who was in a similar position as me that grades aren't the end all, be all.

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I am struggling here. I’ve applied quite a few times over the years. This year was my third interview at UBC. I have a 83gpa/86agpa and roughly a 505 mcat. I have a top quartile NAQ and interviewed above average. I was rejected post interview. My understanding is my references are fine.

Is my MCAT too low? Is it too much of an uphill battle with marks on the lower end? I’m IP and wondering if it’s worth it to move elsewhere to up my chances at different schools.

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30 minutes ago, duke8 said:

I am struggling here. I’ve applied quite a few times over the years. This year was my third interview at UBC. I have a 83gpa/86agpa and roughly a 505 mcat. I have a top quartile NAQ and interviewed above average. I was rejected post interview. My understanding is my references are fine.

Is my MCAT too low? Is it too much of an uphill battle with marks on the lower end? I’m IP and wondering if it’s worth it to move elsewhere to up my chances at different schools.

I would rewrite MCAT if I were you, not just for UBC but to open up your options for other schools in Canada as well.

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12 hours ago, duke8 said:

I am struggling here. I’ve applied quite a few times over the years. This year was my third interview at UBC. I have a 83gpa/86agpa and roughly a 505 mcat. I have a top quartile NAQ and interviewed above average. I was rejected post interview. My understanding is my references are fine.

Is my MCAT too low? Is it too much of an uphill battle with marks on the lower end? I’m IP and wondering if it’s worth it to move elsewhere to up my chances at different schools.

Rewrite the MCAT and I think you have a good chance! I have very similar stats to you, plus above average interview, upper quartile NAQ last year with 509 MCAT and was rejected post interview. Rewrote for 514 last summer and got in this year!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I got my comment deleted so i guess somebody didn't like what i called out, but this thread has some pretty toxic undertones. All i see are people on here complaining about their unfortunate circumstances (some of which are consequences of their own actions). The most concerning is people putting down others with saying that younger people with good stats aren't well suited to be doctors. Not cool.    

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To OP and others in a similar situation who may stumble upon this,

It is so so so frustrating and disheartening to have to work harder and harder, year after year, only to be met with unfortunate news at the end of each attempt.  I was also in the same boat before I was offered a seat.  One can spend hours speculating the topic of admissions, but it would be wiser to focus on what options are available to you and plan what actions/paths to take, whether that'd be doing more schooling, applying abroad, etc.

Regarding more schooling, it is definitely possible to pull up your GPA.  Although I'm not sure of the specifics (or if it's still a thing), a couple of my friends took multiple courses at Athabasca and literally worked their butt off to pull a 78% GPA to 85%.  Obviously, it will be an expensive and time-consuming option as you'd have to take like 40-60 credits depending on your end goal, but it can be done -- if there is a will, there is a way.  But, there being a will is the most important step.

I can't represent the field to talk about the career as a whole yet, but speaking as a med student, I can tell you that whatever I had to endure to get to where I am today, it was 100% worth it.  From the clinical interactions I've had so far, it is an incredibly rewarding field, which makes me even more thrilled for clerkship years and beyond.  If you are sure about a career in medicine/surgery, don't let anything stop you.  Give it your best shot, always, all the time.  Your hard work, despite failed attempts, will never go to waste; believe me, it will equip you with skills you will certainly appreciate later in your professional career.

But to reiterate, think about the options you have and plan your next move.  And in between, talk to as many people as you can and reach out to them for some support.

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