Why you should pick McMaster?

[MDIA]

Hey guys, congratulations to everyone who got accepted. And to those who received multiple offers, let me convince you why Mac is the best school to attend.

1. Mac is great for your mental health. The schedule is laid back and flexible, allowing you to pursue multiple interests like research, ECs and hobbies. You take control of your education and can decide how you want to spend your time. Can't count the number of TV shows I've binged this year. Just recently the class of 2023 was offered a weekend off + flex days to avoid burn out. Exams are also quite low stakes.

2. 3 years. Need I say more. Less tuition and a chance to finish in 2024. 

3. 3 great campuses and quite close to all GTA amenities.

4. The faculty actually cares. The way MacMed admin has handled COVID, shows that they put students first and are committed to making sure we are in no way disadvantaged. The incoming Associate Dean is an education scientist and I expect nothing short of amazing work from him.

5. Competitive match rates. Mac students go all over Canada for residency and consistently go for competitive specialties. 

6. Some of the strongest researchers in Canada. McMaster is extremely productive in research and faculty loves working with medical students. 

7. McMaster ranks 11th in the world and 2nd in Canada for medicine according to the Times Higher Education World University Rankings 2021.

I am a current c2023 student, feel free to message me with any questions.

[VVWx]

Hey all. I just missed a call from Mac. Do you know how they will contact you if it is about the waitlist?

[throwaway1999]

9 minutes ago, VVWx said:

Hey all. I just missed a call from Mac. Do you know how they will contact you if it is about the waitlist?

They said by email, not sure why they called you but best of luck!

[Alex Smith]

 With the covid situation I would  choose a 4 year program over the 3 year program as it will give me enough time and exposure to choose a specialty and get clinical exposure.

[bearded frog]

2 hours ago, Alex Smith said:

 With the covid situation I would  choose a 4 year program over the 3 year program as it will give me enough time and exposure to choose a specialty and get clinical exposure.

Conversely, if you're gunning a compeditive specialty, at Mac you could take a year to do a research Masters in your desired specialty and finish at the same time, which I knew some people who did for very compeditive stuff.

[Alex Smith]

I tend to disagree if someone want to get the full experience and exposure to specialty out of Medical School, 4 years program is the way to go. 

[zoxy]

7 hours ago, Alex Smith said:

I tend to disagree if someone want to get the full experience and exposure to specialty out of Medical School, 4 years program is the way to go. 

That's not what they said. They said that a 3year school+1 year of pure research might be better if you're gunning for a particular competitive specialty like Derm or Plastics, than a 4 year school. Also COVID will be a thing of the past by the time this year's Mac matriculants get to clerkship and electives.

Also I might add that you just joined this forum three hours ago and the first thing you comment on is why people should definitely choose 4 year school's over 3 year ones in the Mac forum. Something smells fishy.

[waitlisteddream]

33 minutes ago, bearded frog said:

Conversely, if you're gunning a compeditive specialty, at Mac you could take a year to do a research Masters in your desired specialty and finish at the same time, which I knew some people who did for very compeditive stuff.

I would say it would highly depend on the individual and how decided they are on a specialty. If one is sure of a certain specialty, there is much to gain from saving a year. If one is undecided and knows they would prefer more time, there is no need to go for a 3-year program only to stay a year behind one’s classmates. This is all non-anecdotal though so anyone reading this, please take it with a grain of salt.

[indefatigable]

In terms of potential disadvantages, I think it's sometimes harder for students at 3-year school to look as good on away electives since they seem to sometimes occur relatively earlier - i.e. before cores.

Also, 3-years could be great for some, but may be more tiring for others as there is less "break time" (which could allow more exploration/research/ECs/etc..) .  

That being said, Mac has almost every single specialty, including Plastic Surgery, and is close to the GTA (which could be an important factor for some).  I don't think the anatomy/surgery tradition is as strong as some other schools though.  

[hopefulpremedic]

.

[Rogers]

This is such an interesting discussion, thanks to everyone for providing your insights!

- Mac doesn't have "break time" and so, this could be tiring on various levels (mentally, physically etc)

- Students need to pack in 4 years worth of experience (clinical, research, extra curricular) into 3 years 
- Less time for exploration of specialties. 4 year programs provide more time for specialty exploration, research, and clinical opportunities-- that 4 year program is going to bolster residency applications 

- There's going to be an online component this year and with a 3 year program, that's even less clinical and in-person time.  Ahh. 

- Visiting electives may not be permitted this year but they will be in the future. With 3 year schools, it is harder for students to look as good on away electives

Thought I'd share my thoughts.

[MDIA]

Something to consider is that 3 year Mac has approximately only 6 to 7 weeks less than a 4 year program. So, the amount of school experiences are pretty much the same.

Additionally, I disagree with the comments on getting tired with no breaks. I don't think people who are not attending Mac can comment on that fairly. We have many one week or two week breaks sprinkled throughout that have been enough for me. Mac Med student CVs are quite comparable to 4 year programs (have seen this from experience).

ultimately despite all this, mac continues to be one of the top medical schools and has successful matches, so regardless at the end of the day the 3 versus 4 years doesnt really matter except for if you really need those 4 months off for your wellbeing. otherwise its still the same elective time, and mac students still do well and learn well.

(There is an elective cap, so you can't do that much more with extra years)

As a c2023 I have had more clinical experiences than my friend c2023 at UofT.

[Rogers]

I think it makes as difference to have 4 years. For medical school, 7 weeks and makes a difference!! Also, it's more time for content knowledge to sink it which unquestionably makes a difference 

 

Summers at 4-year schools are a chance to unwind but also an excellent opportunity to get even more involved in a number of research or other med-related experiences, clinical experiences etc. Based on the CVs I have seen, those additional chunks of experiences really embellish CVs and help students really get well-rounded and cultivate passions. 

 

Also, COVID has affected education in terms of online component and with an online component this year, a 4 year program would be better because students would get more in person learning opportunities vs those in 3 year programs  

[Edict]

Any current Mac Med student know if the program has changed when med school starts, when clerkship starts or whether or not clerkship electives are closer to the end of clerkship? Just curious to see if things have changed.

[MDIA]

3 hours ago, Edict said:

Any current Mac Med student know if the program has changed when med school starts, when clerkship starts or whether or not clerkship electives are closer to the end of clerkship? Just curious to see if things have changed.

There have been temporary changes to the dates for our year but I expect them to return to normal for c2024 . There has been curriculum changes since you likely attended but nothing too drastic. You can search up COMPASS to see the general schedule.

[MDIA]

2 hours ago, Rogers said:

I think it makes as difference to have 4 years. For medical school, 7 weeks and makes a difference!! Also, it's more time for content knowledge to sink it which unquestionably makes a difference 

 

Summers at 4-year schools are a chance to unwind but also an excellent opportunity to get even more involved in a number of research or other med-related experiences, clinical experiences etc. Based on the CVs I have seen, those additional chunks of experiences really embellish CVs and help students really get well-rounded and cultivate passions. 

 

Also, COVID has affected education in terms of online component and with an online component this year, a 4 year program would be better because students would get more in person learning opportunities vs those in 3 year programs  

May I ask what medical school you are currently attending? 

[Persephone]

13 hours ago, Edict said:

Any current Mac Med student know if the program has changed when med school starts, when clerkship starts or whether or not clerkship electives are closer to the end of clerkship? Just curious to see if things have changed.

They changed how they distribute core rotations for C2022 and on. Now you do 4 weeks of each core rotation near the start of clerkship so that you rotate through every single core well before CaRMS. There's some electives dispersed through there, but most of them are in the summer/fall I think? And then during/after CaRMS you do the final two weeks of your core rotations in blocks called "Transition to Residency", which are getting some additional curriculum added to them as well. So electives are generally later than before now.

[popfossa]

Also, I think it really sucks how Mac has electives rotations sprinkled in with your core rotations so your first rotation ever in clerkship could be the one your gunning for and you have 0 idea what you're doing. Other schools have "core/mandatory" rotations first (in third year) and then in 4th year you do your electives in the field you wish to pursue (better for getting references). 

At the same time, a three year program def has it's benefits. You finish one year early (with much less debt) and I heard there is less stress (testing at Mac is a bit more chill). However, I definitely could not do a three year program. I am in my first year of med and I am already very much looking forward/needing this summer break. But everyone is different! 

That being said, all medical schools in Canada are amazing. So just pick the school that best aligns with your personality and where you envision yourself living for the next 3/4 years. 

[Edict]

On 5/15/2021 at 1:05 PM, Persephone said:

They changed how they distribute core rotations for C2022 and on. Now you do 4 weeks of each core rotation near the start of clerkship so that you rotate through every single core well before CaRMS. There's some electives dispersed through there, but most of them are in the summer/fall I think? And then during/after CaRMS you do the final two weeks of your core rotations in blocks called "Transition to Residency", which are getting some additional curriculum added to them as well. So electives are generally later than before now.

Thats great news. I left some feedback for them at graduation about the flawed system. A 3 year program with very little mandatory coursework and very little guidance on what to study + early electives essentially sank everyone but the gunners or people with insider knowledge's chances of matching to their true first choice. 

Did they move up the beginning of med school? I was a believer in moving up the start date of med school a month or so. 

[Persephone]

1 hour ago, Edict said:

Thats great news. I left some feedback for them at graduation about the flawed system. A 3 year program with very little mandatory coursework and very little guidance on what to study + early electives essentially sank everyone but the gunners or people with insider knowledge's chances of matching to their true first choice. 

Did they move up the beginning of med school? I was a believer in moving up the start date of med school a month or so. 

I totally agree with all your points. And yes, they start a few weeks earlier in August since the class of 2022 as well. They start out with learning how to actually do PBL in a dedicated fashion, instead of learning how to do it on the fly. I think the changes will be a big help. They still do summer pre-clerkship electives, but I think those are helpful. They also changed how the MFs work a bit too. So MF4 is essentially MF5 and then MF5 becomes an integration block. So now they go into pre-clerkship electives actually having the MSK and neuro knowledge and clinical skills. I found it so disconcerting to do an emerg elective in post-MF4s without those haha

[Aetherus]

My strong recommendation is that unless you have a very strong reason to select a 3 year program, you should chose to go to a 4 year program. In my opinion, there is no question that the quality of education is far superior in a 4 year program. 7 weeks of lost clinical activities is significant. Some people will do well at Mac, but my argument is that those people probably would have excelled wherever they went. When comparing the strength of the program, you have to look at the worse quartile of the class and see what the school is doing to help these students be competent physicians. In my opinion, a lax curriculum coupled with 3 years of schooling is a recipe to create poor clinicians or at the very least unbalanced clinicians.

The rankings mentioned in this thread have literally no bearing on your education. Having world renowned researchers will do nothing for you as a clinician. 

[Persephone]

1 minute ago, Aetherus said:

My strong recommendation is that unless you have a very strong reason to select a 3 year program, you should chose to go to a 4 year program. In my opinion, there is no question that the quality of education is far superior in a 4 year program. 7 weeks of lost clinical activities is significant. Some people will do well at Mac, but my argument is that those people probably would have excelled wherever they went. When comparing the strength of the program, you have to look at the worse quartile of the class and see what the school is doing to help these students be competent physicians. In my opinion, a lax curriculum coupled with 3 years of schooling is a recipe to create poor clinicians or at the very least unbalanced clinicians.

The rankings mentioned in this thread have literally no bearing on your education. Having world renowned researchers will do nothing for you as a clinician. 

Most people do well at Mac, so I don't know if there's an argument to be made to say that only some do well, but certainly it is better suited to certain types of people than others. Being a non-trad with a humanities background, I could have definitely benefited from more structure and guidance on what to study, but I also knew I wanted psychiatry before entering medical school and as an older student coming in with more debt, 3 years was ideal. I would say the school could definitely do better for our struggling students, but I've heard similar sentiments from students at other schools, that academic support is often limited at best. That's been my impression at least.

[Aetherus]

51 minutes ago, Persephone said:

Most people do well at Mac, so I don't know if there's an argument to be made to say that only some do well, but certainly it is better suited to certain types of people than others. Being a non-trad with a humanities background, I could have definitely benefited from more structure and guidance on what to study, but I also knew I wanted psychiatry before entering medical school and as an older student coming in with more debt, 3 years was ideal. I would say the school could definitely do better for our struggling students, but I've heard similar sentiments from students at other schools, that academic support is often limited at best. That's been my impression at least.

I don’t mean to be perceived as rude but your comment reinforces my point. 

Firstly, I am not sure how you qualify that most students do well. There is no real metric that successfully evaluates the competence of students. The P/F system masks any possible deficiencies and the only thing remaining to evaluate students is based on your interactions with them. As a resident, I can tell you that on average, I have been unimpressed by the students that are in three year programs. Are there superstars that shine despite this handicap, absolutely, but if you are an average medical students, the 3 year program is a disservice. 

Secondly, your comment that you wanted to do Psychiatry before entering medical school speaks exactly to my point that the curriculum does not force you to be a well rounded clinician. People can come in with an idea in mind of what they want to do in their career and coast through the remainder of the curriculum without being required to truly learn the material. 

Will the differences in training dissipated through residency, yes. However, I do think that an average student at a three year program will be less prepared when entering residency.

[Aetherus]

Another aspect that I forgot to mention in my previous post is that the 3 year program is not recognized in certain countries. This can end up being a big deal for fellowships (I know someone who had a top fellowship lined up in England that fell through because her MD was not recognized).

[zxcccxz]

 

37 minutes ago, Aetherus said:

Another aspect that I forgot to mention in my previous post is that the 3 year program is not recognized in certain countries. This can end up being a big deal for fellowships (I know someone who had a top fellowship lined up in England that fell through because her MD was not recognized).

I'm quite surprised to hear this considering that all Canadian medical degrees are recognized as legitimate (including Mac) by the UK's general medical council which is the body that regulates medical licensing/practice. It may have been some sort of unlucky circumstance due to problems at one specific hospital/institution (or perhaps this occurred a while ago?) but in general Mac graduates should not have any issues completing fellowships or even getting licensed for independent practice in the UK.