Dermatology Average Salary Less Than Expected?

[Kokoro1901]

Hey all! SO I know salary isn't the most important thing to think about, and no matter which speciality a person does they'll be well off.. but I do feel that it's important to still have a sense. I've noticed that dermatology is always talked about having incredible earnings with a very chill lifestyle, but from what I've seen on data from the Canadian Institute for Health Information reports (published in October 2020 based on 2018–2019 data), the average salary for a dermatologist in Ontario is $353,128. Now in other provinces this number is over $600k... but for Ontario I figured it must be higher? And surely the difference can't all be due to the cosmetics or side earnings from stuff like that, since I imagine it's a fairly saturated market? I even looked up a few dermatologists in the Toronto Star Database and saw that indeed, they're often billing around $300k. So what's the deal with that?

 

Thanks!

[jb24]

That is only showing public billings. Dermatologists can have significant private practices. Overall though Canadian dermatologists are underpaid compared to the USA.

Also the lifestyle is just way better than any other specialty, except maybe lab based specialties and radiation oncology. Probably why it's super competitive.

[JohnGrisham]

4 hours ago, Kokoro1901 said:

Hey all! SO I know salary isn't the most important thing to think about, and no matter which speciality a person does they'll be well off.. but I do feel that it's important to still have a sense. I've noticed that dermatology is always talked about having incredible earnings with a very chill lifestyle, but from what I've seen on data from the Canadian Institute for Health Information reports (published in October 2020 based on 2018–2019 data), the average salary for a dermatologist in Ontario is $353,128. Now in other provinces this number is over $600k... but for Ontario I figured it must be higher? And surely the difference can't all be due to the cosmetics or side earnings from stuff like that, since I imagine it's a fairly saturated market? I even looked up a few dermatologists in the Toronto Star Database and saw that indeed, they're often billing around $300k. So what's the deal with that?

 

Thanks!

Many people will choose a real dermatologist over a FM doc for cosmetic work when given the choice. There is no saturation of real dermatologists, because the number of derm residency spots is kept artificially low.

Derms make very good money, public billings are just that, public - some provinces are much lower than others for public MSP billings. But they make up for it with private cosmetics and procedures that aren't billable to MSP that get referred over.

Average derm visits are also relatively shorter than say a average FM office visit. Identify, provide patient education in mgmt (handouts help alot here to re-inforce), prescribe treatment plan(non-pharm or pharm), and follow up afterwards. First visit consultation, then follow-ups. A good friend is a local derm, and his average follow up visit is less than 10 minutes, many follow-ups are "It's looking alot better, but why don't we try X for 3-4 weeks and re-assess", and patient is out the door (or off the video during covid times) in 5 mintues. Aside from difficult patients, average patients are more than happy with this because they got a specialist to sign off on their treatment plan. These visits are of course referring to bread and butter MSP paid dermatology visits. Cosmetics are different - but even simple things like liquid nitrogen therapy for cosmetic lesions is pretty lucrative, and very quick. Patients don't expect you to continue chit-chatting, you get treated a few lesions, pay your xxx$ and leave. 

Obviously this is a simplification, but in general there is a lot less room for random off-shoots and elaborate discussions outside of the first visit. A large element of pattern recognition, clear counselling and advice, and treatment plan initiation.  

Significantly less paper work, theres no significant burden of forms like in family practice or referrals. Consults are generally pretty straight forward to create and send off to the referring provider. 

Theres a reason dermatology is very popular. But for the rest of us, who find it very boring, we have to work a bit differently  

[shikimate]

They must be doing a lot of non-OHIP stuff to bill just 350K. If I look at dermatologist around my area that mainly bill the government, billing is 700K to >1mil. 

[Edict]

They make a lot with private practice. However, it is very competitive, its the only specialty I know where more than half of the people I knew seriously wanted it did not get it.