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Not wanting covid vaccine yet


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On 12/12/2021 at 11:12 AM, zoxy said:

This has been posted once before but:

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Hello there, I don't think you should dismiss concerns as trolling. Ontario just released data today:

incidence of Peri or myocarditis observed in 18-24 yr old post 2nd dose of vaccine for = 59.2 per million

incidence of Peri or myocarditis observed in 12-17 yr old post 2nd dose of vaccine for = 97.3 per million

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.02.21267156v1.full.pdf

 

At the end of the day this is a new vaccine that was rushed out so people having concerns isn't really unreasonable imo. Don't forget our government has waived ALL/ANY legal repercussions that pertains to this vaccine for  Pfizer/Moderna and friends.

Stay safe

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Hello there, I don't think you should dismiss concerns as trolling. Ontario just released data today:

incidence of Peri or myocarditis observed in 18-24 yr old post 2nd dose of vaccine for = 59.2 per million

incidence of Peri or myocarditis observed in 12-17 yr old post 2nd dose of vaccine for = 97.3 per million

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.02.21267156v1.full.pdf

Now cite the incidence of myocarditis post COVID infection.

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13 hours ago, LukaJkovac said:

Hello there, I don't think you should dismiss concerns as trolling. Ontario just released data today:

incidence of Peri or myocarditis observed in 18-24 yr old post 2nd dose of vaccine for = 59.2 per million

incidence of Peri or myocarditis observed in 12-17 yr old post 2nd dose of vaccine for = 97.3 per million

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.02.21267156v1.full.pdf

 

At the end of the day this is a new vaccine that was rushed out so people having concerns isn't really unreasonable imo. Don't forget our government has waived ALL/ANY legal repercussions that pertains to this vaccine for  Pfizer/Moderna and friends.

Stay safe

First, who are you?

Second, a quick search shows a general incidence of pericarditis that's around 5 cases per 100 000 (or 50 per million) in adults. Now, what was your point?

Now, I do realise you are not very good at logical thinking, but perhaps you should spend more time comparing the absurdly small incidence of significant adverse effects after vaccination to the thousands of lives and serious complications that were prevented because of covid vaccination. That would be a better use of your time than trying to bait physicians.

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1 hour ago, Snowmen said:

First, who are you?

Second, a quick search shows a general incidence of pericarditis that's around 5 cases per 100 000 (or 50 per million) in adults. Now, what was your point?

Now, I do realise you are not very good at logical thinking, but perhaps you should spend more time comparing the absurdly small incidence of significant adverse effects after vaccination to the thousands of lives and serious complications that were prevented because of covid vaccination. That would be a better use of your time than trying to bait physicians.

You can make your point without throwing insults or wording it in that way.  Your post is a perfect example of not how you communicate your points to the other side; it does nothing but further alienate both sides.  

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18 hours ago, LukaJkovac said:

Don't forget our government has waived ALL/ANY legal repercussions that pertains to this vaccine for  Pfizer/Moderna and friends.

I probably shouldn't respond BUT, this is a standard practice in every jurisdiction. Look at the 2005 Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act in the United States as an analogue.

It wouldn't make sense for big drug companies like Pfizer to open themselves up to litigation by providing a vaccine that doesn't have the trial length that you would usually expect. Why should Pfizer stick its neck out by providing a vaccine at relatively low cost if it could be sued into liquidation? So, without assurances from legal repercussions, you would have millions of excess death because Pfizer made the rational choice for its shareholders by staying on the sidelines due to this fear of litigation. Accordingly, the government has to give Pfizer and Moderna some protection from litigation in order for them to provide their vaccines and save people's lives.

Additionally,  the very document that you link indicates that there were 0 deaths associated with the pericarditis and myocarditis and only 14 needed ICU treatment. How many folks between 12-24 do you think would have ended up dead or in the ICU with actual COVID? It would certainly be greater than 0 dead and 14 in the ICU out of the millions vaccinated.

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7 hours ago, zerochance said:

You can make your point without throwing insults or wording it in that way.  Your post is a perfect example of not how you communicate your points to the other side; it does nothing but further alienate both sides.  

I'm simply not pretentious enough to think that anything I'll say will change someone's mind after 2 years of this pandemic if they've decided to believe conspiracy theories instead of the scientific consensus. So I don't bother trying.

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10 hours ago, Snowmen said:

First, who are you?

Second, a quick search shows a general incidence of pericarditis that's around 5 cases per 100 000 (or 50 per million) in adults. Now, what was your point?

Now, I do realise you are not very good at logical thinking, but perhaps you should spend more time comparing the absurdly small incidence of significant adverse effects after vaccination to the thousands of lives and serious complications that were prevented because of covid vaccination. That would be a better use of your time than trying to bait physicians.

My point is that the vaccine was rushed out and the potneital side effects weren't fully disclosed when I was "asked" to take it a year ago. I didn't say we as a society shouldn't take the vaccine/vaccine doesn't work, I just get a bit iffy when I put things in my body where I feel like I don't know enough about it, you know, like what most patients kinda go through. I'm hoping that you just had a bad day and wanted to get a bit snippy online and that when patieents talk about their concerns you dont nomrally get this triggered Mr. Snow. I'm not trying to bait anyone.

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9 hours ago, zoxy said:

I probably shouldn't respond BUT, this is a standard practice in every jurisdiction. Look at the 2005 Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act in the United States as an analogue.

It wouldn't make sense for big drug companies like Pfizer to open themselves up to litigation by providing a vaccine that doesn't have the trial length that you would usually expect. Why should Pfizer stick its neck out by providing a vaccine at relatively low cost if it could be sued into liquidation? So, without assurances from legal repercussions, you would have millions of excess death because Pfizer made the rational choice for its shareholders by staying on the sidelines due to this fear of litigation. Accordingly, the government has to give Pfizer and Moderna some protection from litigation in order for them to provide their vaccines and save people's lives.

Additionally,  the very document that you link indicates that there were 0 deaths associated with the pericarditis and myocarditis and only 14 needed ICU treatment. How many folks between 12-24 do you think would have ended up dead or in the ICU with actual COVID? It would certainly be greater than 0 dead and 14 in the ICU out of the millions vaccinated.

Bc it allows them to start claiming that their vaccine helps to prevent omicron variant without reprocussions. Correct me if im wrong but from my understanding it doesnt help. And it also gives these big pharm companies monetary motivation to not tweek the vaccine as good as it can get. Why perfect it when you can get people to take yearly boosters.

I think alot of peeps on here and in small groups are on the "you're either with us or against us" type of mindset. Is it not possible to think that the vax helps with the pandemic while still carrying thoughts of concerns within certain areas that may need some improvement?

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1 hour ago, LukaJkovac said:

Correct me if im wrong but from my understanding it doesnt help.

You're wrong. Vaccines lower your risk of getting both Omicron and Delta and they greatly lower your chances of dying from it or ending up in the ICU. I would try to explain the interaction between CD4 T-Cells, CD8 T-Cell, B-Cell, antibodies, antibody affinity for an epitope, and how vaccines would lead to immunity but that would require a course in biochemistry and immunology as a prerequisite, which I doubt you have.

1 hour ago, LukaJkovac said:

And it also gives these big pharm companies monetary motivation to not tweek the vaccine as good as it can get.

The big pharma companies could make a Delta specific or Omicron specific vaccine tonight, in fact they've probably made dozens already. It took Moderna 2 days to make their vaccine and it took BioNTech 1 day to make theirs. It's relatively trivial once you have the variant's genetic sequence. The main barrier to having variant specific vaccines are the regulatory bodies, the FDA and Health Canada, not big pharma.

 

1 hour ago, LukaJkovac said:

I just get a bit iffy when I put things in my body where I feel like I don't know enough about it

I'm glad that you know enough about the COVID virus and all its variants to be so comfortable with having 100 billion of them in your body.

1 hour ago, LukaJkovac said:

when patieents talk about their concerns

Patient's concerns usually don't manifest themselves in their infecting other people and sending them to the ICU or the grave. They wouldn't usually lead to the shut down all of the crucial elective surgical and  medical procedures, the burn out of healthcare workers, or the ruining the economy.

People who are un-vaccinated are approximately 25 times more likely to end up in the ICU. If the anti-vaxxers got vaccinated, we could go back to the way things were. So it's pretty understandable why a physician would be impatient after two years of this nonsense.

P.S.

I can't believe I engaged but I just cancelled my holiday and the view out of my window resembles the Arctic. If I spend another holiday with my parents I'll lose the little sanity I have left.

 

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2 hours ago, LukaJkovac said:

My point is that the vaccine was rushed out and the potneital side effects weren't fully disclosed when I was "asked" to take it a year ago. I didn't say we as a society shouldn't take the vaccine/vaccine doesn't work, I just get a bit iffy when I put things in my body where I feel like I don't know enough about it, you know, like what most patients kinda go through. I'm hoping that you just had a bad day and wanted to get a bit snippy online and that when patieents talk about their concerns you dont nomrally get this triggered Mr. Snow. I'm not trying to bait anyone.

You're not my patient, and my patients don't usually drop meaningless statistics out of context to support some illogical agenda that leads to countless deaths. If they did, I would politely educate them, but given the fact that you're a troll rather than my patient, you don't get the nice Mr (it's actually Dr by the way) Snow.

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14 hours ago, LukaJkovac said:

Bc it allows them to start claiming that their vaccine helps to prevent omicron variant without reprocussions. Correct me if im wrong but from my understanding it doesnt help. And it also gives these big pharm companies monetary motivation to not tweek the vaccine as good as it can get. Why perfect it when you can get people to take yearly boosters.

I think alot of peeps on here and in small groups are on the "you're either with us or against us" type of mindset. Is it not possible to think that the vax helps with the pandemic while still carrying thoughts of concerns within certain areas that may need some improvement?

bro learn to spell before anything else. Not even talking about your ideas but first of all your spelling is embarrassing. Second of all the way you throw (misspelled) huge words left and right just to try to make your point is also embarrassing.

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2 minutes ago, capoo said:

I think alot of peeps on here and in small groups are on the "you're either with us or against us" type of mindset. Is it not possible to think that the vax helps with the pandemic while still carrying thoughts of concerns within certain areas that may need some improvement?

Because we’re sick and tired of people just like you who spread misinformation that fits your selfish agendas under the guise of “debate” and “freedom of thought”, without an ounce of nuance or logic behind your arguments.

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I have to say, I’m exhausted by this conversation topic, and sad to see it’s now also seeped into a medical forum. It seems that everywhere we turn now, including unfortunately within my family, it’s a constant barrage of “vaccines are bad/don’t work/etc, I’m not getting vaccinated/boosted, I’m not changing my Christmas plans/taking any new precautions with Omicron, big pharma this and that, etc etc etc”.
 

I’m just exhausted by this. And as a healthcare worker who now falls into a high-risk category for severe infection, I’m terrified of what’s to come in our hospitals in the New Year because people won’t be taking the proper precautions or prioritizing getting their vaccines/boosters. I’ve been having flashbacks to treating covid patients in ICU back in April and the sheer devastation of that all. And the fact that we are going to have more of that now because of people’s choices and actions (or lack thereof) is sad. People think they’re the only ones affected by their choices in this pandemic - this is so far from the truth. 

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On 12/19/2021 at 6:34 PM, Snowmen said:

You're not my patient, and my patients don't usually drop meaningless statistics out of context to support some illogical agenda that leads to countless deaths. If they did, I would politely educate them, but given the fact that you're a troll rather than my patient, you don't get the nice Mr (it's actually Dr by the way) Snow.

So just to summarize, I said that I'm a bit sketched out that I was told to put something in my body where after a year the scientific community goes -oh yah, PS there's some health issues that we didnt tell you about. But at the end of the day having the exact conclusion as u regarding the vax is ultimately a good thing.
You passive aggressively tell me that I'm brain dead, that the developmental rate of 2 of the newly discovered health issues is low so i shouldn't even care; you then incorrextly assume I'm some dooms day prepper conspiracy theorist or some troll. And then asked who am I? I think there's a bit of context that's lost in translation for that snib bit, but I'm guessing it's probably something mean spirited.

Common doctor, surely someone as smart and logical as you can see that there's some room for improvement within the realms of acceptance and tolerance for others' opinions and concerns?

Hope you have a good holiday and merry Christmas. Honestly wish you nothing but the best sir.

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