Gap Year Education

[Jeffshepp]

I'll be prepared to graduate from a BA in Psych in April. I am going to rewrite the MCAT sometime this summer, and apply to a few Canadian schools in September. So that means I'll have a gap year to fill. I'd like to continue taking post-secondary courses because if I stay in school, I don't have to start paying back student loans. I work in addictions and recovery and will continue after I graduate, and I volunteer as a community counsellor already. The options I am considering are as follows:

1) Don't graduate, come back to VIU and do an honours thesis. Graduate in April 2023 w/ a BA Honours. Doesn't really make a difference in the jobs I'd be looking at if I don't get into med school. 

2) MPH from UVic - It's a distance program, so I won't have to travel. Competitive job market if I don't get into med school.

3) MSc HINF from UVic - Same things, distance program. No travel. Competitive job market if I don't get into med school.

4) MSc Clinical Psych from UVic - I'd have to travel from Gabriola Island down to Vic. Not very commutable, but I have friends in Victoria that I could crash with. I could get an RCC after the MSc, and hang a shingle. They make it clear they expect students to continue on to the Ph.D. level though. Plus, I may not be competitive as an MSc applicant without an honours thesis.

5) Online MA/MSc in counselling psych from one of "those" schools - you know the ones; Adler, CityU, Yorkville, etc. Expensive as hell, no actual research streams, subpar education, but I could do it online, finish it quickly if I don't get into med school, and still be able to hang a shingle. 

Anyone have any thoughts? Experienced any of the above options before their application to UBC? Think that there's something I'm missing as an option?

 

Thanks! 

[Excel-erate Your Breath]

2 hours ago, Jeffshepp said:

1) Don't graduate, come back to VIU and do an honours thesis. Graduate in April 2023 w/ a BA Honours. Doesn't really make a difference in the jobs I'd be looking at if I don't get into med school. 

2) MPH from UVic - It's a distance program, so I won't have to travel. Competitive job market if I don't get into med school.

3) MSc HINF from UVic - Same things, distance program. No travel. Competitive job market if I don't get into med school.

4) MSc Clinical Psych from UVic - I'd have to travel from Gabriola Island down to Vic. Not very commutable, but I have friends in Victoria that I could crash with. I could get an RCC after the MSc, and hang a shingle. They make it clear they expect students to continue on to the Ph.D. level though. Plus, I may not be competitive as an MSc applicant without an honours thesis.

5) Online MA/MSc in counselling psych from one of "those" schools - you know the ones; Adler, CityU, Yorkville, etc. Expensive as hell, no actual research streams, subpar education, but I could do it online, finish it quickly if I don't get into med school, and still be able to hang a shingle. 

Anyone have any thoughts? Experienced any of the above options before their application to UBC? Think that there's something I'm missing as an option?

1. Depends if you want to do research/need research experience to get in to other things (ex. #4)

2. Can't comment on ability to get jobs after MPH (no knowledge), but this seems to be something that is discussed on the forums quite a bit. However if it was really that easy to get a job after an MPH I believe it'd be much more used as a route...

3. Same as #2

4. Clinical psyc is one of the most competitive programs to get into in Canada (in terms of raw number of applicants vs. seats). Especially at Vic! I was exploring that route and decided for myself it's not the backup I really wanted so make sure you study it very well. A lot of programs are more research focused vs more therapy focused/application-focused so study that as well. Anecdotally I know people who have applied to programs 2-3 times before finally getting in somewhere. It's not easy and the reason they expect you to finish your PhD is b/c: 1) a lot of these programs are structured as streamlined PhDs where you get your MA after 1-1.5 years (technically) but continue working on that project through your PhD and 2) you need a doctorate to register as a psychologist in most provinces other than Alberta

5. Why an online counselling degree? I'm a counsellor and one of my coworkers is completing her Masters through Yorkville (again, just an anecdote) and she's lowkey hating the experience. Why not do one in person? Also are you really sure you'd be able to find a job from these schools? Anecdotally (having been around employers in the profession for a little while now), they're looked down upon...I know you mentioned starting your own practice, but that is much easier said than done too

Something missing as an option: well, only you can truly determine, but if you have experience in the field already, maybe try squeezing your way into a mental-health type job. That way you are building up your application to med AND your application to backup plans at the same time. Source: this is what I am doing, and it seems we have similar thoughts/backup plans - hence why I chose to log in and reply to you

Edit: I initially missed the beginning of your post where you talked about what you're doing right now and why you want to go into further schooling. But also, is going into further schooling not just accumulating more debt? Why not start saving with that current job of yours if you're able to turn it into FT? A whole bigger wave of debt is coming with med school

[ShadesofCyan]

I would be careful starting a Master's Program, especially if it is two years long. UBC has strict rules about Grad Students and timelines. 

"Graduate students wishing to enter the UBC Faculty of Medicine Undergraduate Program must complete the program in which they are registered and provide official proof of completion by July 30, prior to admission. If an applicant enrolls in or starts a graduate program after submitting an application, they must immediately notify the Admissions Office and provide proof of completion by the July 30 deadline. Failure of notification or withdrawing from a graduate program any time after application submission will result in ineligibility. There are no exceptions to this policy."

[Jeffshepp]

On 10/19/2021 at 11:12 AM, Excel-erate Your Breath said:

Edit: I initially missed the beginning of your post where you talked about what you're doing right now and why you want to go into further schooling. But also, is going into further schooling not just accumulating more debt? Why not start saving with that current job of yours if you're able to turn it into FT? A whole bigger wave of debt is coming with med school

Thanks - those are all great points. The reason why I want to stay in school during my gap year is because I am concerned that whatever $50k/year job I'm going to be able to get with a BA in Psych isn't going to cover my bills once my Canada student loan starts coming due. Staying in school does increase the amount of debt I'll be carrying but the amount doesn't really compare to what I'm going to owe after med school anyway. 

 

[Jeffshepp]

13 hours ago, ShadesofCyan said:

I would be careful starting a Master's Program, especially if it is two years long. UBC has strict rules about Grad Students and timelines. 

"Graduate students wishing to enter the UBC Faculty of Medicine Undergraduate Program must complete the program in which they are registered and provide official proof of completion by July 30, prior to admission. If an applicant enrolls in or starts a graduate program after submitting an application, they must immediately notify the Admissions Office and provide proof of completion by the July 30 deadline. Failure of notification or withdrawing from a graduate program any time after application submission will result in ineligibility. There are no exceptions to this policy."

Well that's good to know, I don't know how I missed that! 

[JohnGrisham]

3 hours ago, Jeffshepp said:

Thanks - those are all great points. The reason why I want to stay in school during my gap year is because I am concerned that whatever $50k/year job I'm going to be able to get with a BA in Psych isn't going to cover my bills once my Canada student loan starts coming due. Staying in school does increase the amount of debt I'll be carrying but the amount doesn't really compare to what I'm going to owe after med school anyway. 

 

Im confused. You are nowhere close to being at the stage of being gauranteed a medical school seat(doesnt sound like you have reliably shown yourself you can make it to the interview stage yet even), so please don't stay in school just for the sake of staying in school. That makes zero financial sense. IF you are lucky to get a job paying 50k a year right out of a BA undergrad(i think even that you are over-estimating your starting pay you'll be getting, unless you have a lot of experience already!), you still will be better off than continuing with coursework to avoid loan repayment.  

Racking up debt, because you *might* get into medical school one day (could be 1 year from now, could be 5 years from now, could be never) isn't a good idea. At all. Of course, do it if you are pursuing a firm back-up option no doubt that continues to move your life forward, but don't do it in some odd way of trying to be financially smart..as it is not a clear picture.

1) dont do an honours thesis if you arent interested and wont make a big difference for non-medical school options. In itself it wont affect medical school either
2) 3) 4) and 5) are all very different options - you need to narrow down your options. What would you like to be doing IF you dont get into medical school? Or what would be a good option to do UNTIL you get into medical school? Thats how you should be thinking     MPH job opportunities are okay, but not stellar (especially if you have the barometer of 50k out of undergrad with just a BA as your perception.). 

5) why not apply to in-person counselling programs? Or a reputable online counselling program like Athabasca? In-person and athabasca are certainly far more competitive to get into than the for-profit online programs(adler, yorku, city u etc), but will come with less concern of subpar education and placement support.

[Excel-erate Your Breath]

5 hours ago, JohnGrisham said:

Im confused. You are nowhere close to being at the stage of being gauranteed a medical school seat(doesnt sound like you have reliably shown yourself you can make it to the interview stage yet even), so please don't stay in school just for the sake of staying in school. That makes zero financial sense. IF you are lucky to get a job paying 50k a year right out of a BA undergrad(i think even that you are over-estimating your starting pay you'll be getting, unless you have a lot of experience already!), you still will be better off than continuing with coursework to avoid loan repayment.  

Racking up debt, because you *might* get into medical school one day (could be 1 year from now, could be 5 years from now, could be never) isn't a good idea. At all. Of course, do it if you are pursuing a firm back-up option no doubt that continues to move your life forward, but don't do it in some odd way of trying to be financially smart..as it is not a clear picture.

1) dont do an honours thesis if you arent interested and wont make a big difference for non-medical school options. In itself it wont affect medical school either
2) 3) 4) and 5) are all very different options - you need to narrow down your options. What would you like to be doing IF you dont get into medical school? Or what would be a good option to do UNTIL you get into medical school? Thats how you should be thinking     MPH job opportunities are okay, but not stellar (especially if you have the barometer of 50k out of undergrad with just a BA as your perception.). 

5) why not apply to in-person counselling programs? Or a reputable online counselling program like Athabasca? In-person and athabasca are certainly far more competitive to get into than the for-profit online programs(adler, yorku, city u etc), but will come with less concern of subpar education and placement support.

Thank you @JohnGrisham for stating what I was trying to say in a better-phrased/more-fleshed-out way. "Being guaranteed a medical school seat" and "living in Canada" are 2 incongruent concepts even for the best of applicants, which OP may very well be for all we know, but still.

50k a year with a BA certainly sounds super nice right about now for those of us with degrees in Psychology...maybe OP was extrapolating their current wage to 40 hours a week? In which case, fair play if you can make that work and pull it off. My $0.02 would be to snatch at that 50k in a heartbeat, I'm sure it'll go a long (or at least, some) way to paying off debts you have now. Taking on debt can be a powerful thing in the business world to leverage future profits, but I think that, in the case you're describing (@ OP), it's not the same.

Will continue to advocate for in-person counselling programs based on my (albeit) limited experience with them. To be a good counsellor, you have to do your own 'work' first - the best counselling programs don't give you tools or strategies to counsel people, but rather teach you (through your own process/experience) why you got your own mental/personality/etc stuff to deal with and how that stuff shows up in and/or affects your ability to counsel. They can teach us counselling theories and modalities all they want, but really the biggest crux of it is relationship-building, being trauma-informed, person-centered etc. This is my soap box so don't get me started lol, especially on how I wish medicine learned some valuable lessons from the counselling profession..I have hope for the upcoming generation of docs.

But yeah TLDR: working > going into more school if the more school is simply to avoid paying debts in the short term.

[JohnGrisham]

12 hours ago, Excel-erate Your Breath said:

Will continue to advocate for in-person counselling programs based on my (albeit) limited experience with them. To be a good counsellor, you have to do your own 'work' first - the best counselling programs don't give you tools or strategies to counsel people, but rather teach you (through your own process/experience) why you got your own mental/personality/etc stuff to deal with and how that stuff shows up in and/or affects your ability to counsel. They can teach us counselling theories and modalities all they want, but really the biggest crux of it is relationship-building, being trauma-informed, person-centered etc. This is my soap box so don't get me started lol, especially on how I wish medicine learned some valuable lessons from the counselling profession..I have hope for the upcoming generation of docs.

 

To clarify, online programs have their clinical experiences in-person just like brick and mortar schools. Athabasca(publically funded and the one of they few online programs I would ever recc based on colleagues in the field), has their didactics online but clinical experience in person alongside brick and mortar students no different.

But yes avoid for profit ones that take anyone with a pulse, cause they often struggle to get access good placements for rotations. Or have much lower hours requirements for reaching graduation for supervised hours, and/or are too flexible to allow alternative ways to get your hours (i.e too much reliance on group based hours etc).

[Redpill]

23 hours ago, Jeffshepp said:

Thanks - those are all great points. The reason why I want to stay in school during my gap year is because I am concerned that whatever $50k/year job I'm going to be able to get with a BA in Psych isn't going to cover my bills once my Canada student loan starts coming due. Staying in school does increase the amount of debt I'll be carrying but the amount doesn't really compare to what I'm going to owe after med school anyway. 

 

I think there is a misunderstanding here about student loans. If they are from the government, you will only be required to make minimum payments, and these are usually pretty affordable. If they are not for some reason, you also have opportunities to talk to them and try to defer or reduce the monthly amount (e.g. if you're not able to find a job). Then if you get into school again, they would automatically halt interest accruing and stop payments until you graduate again. So there is really no reason to start a new program just to delay paying down student loans.