Is the problem with PAs the "P" rather than the "A"

[Workman123]

PAs and associated politics have been a big dicussion. As a staff, I personally think that although there might be some good PAs, the training is not really enough to warrant independent practice. My experience with PAs in the hospital has generally been with recent grads and I feel that their knowledge base has not really been at resident or senior medical student level. There has been advocacy to change the "A" from assistant to associate from the PA community. However, I really think that the "P" should not be physician at all and there should be a push to switch the "P" to maybe an "M" for Medical Associate or "C" for Clinical Associate. I honestly think that switching the P out for a non-physician letter will make their lives easier and clarify their role as they are not physicians.

[Centurion35]

Have you seen the salaries for PAs, especially in Manitoba? I've met a few who are making 150k+ with pension/benefits and 4 weeks paid vacation. Recent grads in Ontario are pulling 110k + benefits/pension first to second year out of school. Midlevel creep up is happening fairly quickly here

[shikimate]

Many have said before, everyone parties so long as this public healthcare musical wheel keeps spinning. But it's gonna stop one day, so enjoy while you can.

I remember some other person asking if it's good idea to finish UG and med school early. From financial POV, it makes a lot of sense. Basically time is your friend. If you make an extra 300K (eg you finish UG in 3 years), compound that 300K 25 years, and that's >1 mil when you retire. Inflation is pretty bad these days but I suppose that extra 1 mil is still better than nothing when you retire.

Some people have no option but to do second UG, master, PhD, whatever to get admitted. Same with fellowship, for some jobs you have to do it. But "there is no free lunch", and you gotta keep in mind if you elect to do something like that at your own will, it has a present+future price tag attached to it (remember it's compounded). 

When I ask someone "would you spend $2 million to do a grad degree during residency/med school?", it may not change their mind, but it does give them reason for pause, and to think about things in a different perspective.

[RicardoKaká]

What are salaries for PAs in Ontario? Also how is that level of pay above justifiable? 

We have a PA on our surgical service, and although I am not privy to their salary I find it quite unfair that as a resident I am doing probably 3-4x the amount of work for the service compared to the PA, work way longer hours and yet probably compensated less for it. The inequity between resident salary, compared to PAs and let alone other allied healthcare providers is quite disappointing to think about, maybe I am just being salty and bitter however  

[shikimate]

The figures I've seen is around 80K to 100K depending on the setting, type of work, location etc.

Whether that's worth one's time depends on perspective. Let's use nursing as an example. Yes RN school is shorter, less costly, and it's much easier to find a job. But the ceiling on remuneration is also relatively lower. If you do the "regular" job of an RN, you will not make 300K a year. This excludes RN who transition to other roles such as admin etc.

There are other potential benefits and downsides. For example, RN cannot incorporate and usually are employees of an institution. Again some see that as a blessing, some see it as a curse. Some would love to be employees while others would hate to be an employee. 

As a thought experiment, if we cap a surgeon's total remuneration at 150K, would people still become surgeons? A small minority might do that out of passion and dedication to the field, but many would find the workload not in keeping with the remuneration and would decide to pursue other fields. Some might become a surgeon and immigrate right away to other countries that pay surgeons considerably more.