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Why U of A Med? Pros / Cons?


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Would anyone be willing to share insights on what it is like to study at U of A, what the community is like, how the curriculum compares to other med schools, what it's like living in Edmonton, etc? I am an OOP student and do not know anyone from or in Alberta. I've heard some great things, but would also be interested in hearing some cons. Thanks in advance!

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2 hours ago, maybetomorrow said:

Would anyone be willing to share insights on what it is like to study at U of A, what the community is like, how the curriculum compares to other med schools, what it's like living in Edmonton, etc? I am an OOP student and do not know anyone from or in Alberta. I've heard some great things, but would also be interested in hearing some cons. Thanks in advance!

Can't speak directly on behalf of UofA as I picked UofC over it, but at least in the province UofA tends to have a bit more of an academic reputation. It is a 4 year school so you have the advantage of having summers off(which can be helpful in terms of both breaks but also working on CV for your residency apps). Edmonton has a bad rep especially in Eastern provinces, but it's truly a fun city with lots of adventures to be had for a young person. Great restaurant/concert/night-life scene, fantastic biking, mountains nearby(especially if you are moving from Eastern Canada). 

Both UofC and UofA have great rural integrated clerkship programs which are a bit better than the ones in Ontario or BC(at least based on my conversations with people who did them in other provinces). If you think you might have an interest pursuing any kind of a Medical specialty(Family/Emerg/Internal/Anesthesia), I think its a fantastic option that gives you some unique experience. 

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22 hours ago, medbruh said:

Can't speak directly on behalf of UofA as I picked UofC over it, but at least in the province UofA tends to have a bit more of an academic reputation. It is a 4 year school so you have the advantage of having summers off(which can be helpful in terms of both breaks but also working on CV for your residency apps). Edmonton has a bad rep especially in Eastern provinces, but it's truly a fun city with lots of adventures to be had for a young person. Great restaurant/concert/night-life scene, fantastic biking, mountains nearby(especially if you are moving from Eastern Canada). 

Both UofC and UofA have great rural integrated clerkship programs which are a bit better than the ones in Ontario or BC(at least based on my conversations with people who did them in other provinces). If you think you might have an interest pursuing any kind of a Medical specialty(Family/Emerg/Internal/Anesthesia), I think its a fantastic option that gives you some unique experience. 

Thank you for the detailed response! Could you please expand on how the rural integrated clerkship program may be "better" at U of A? 

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  • 8 months later...
On 5/6/2022 at 2:44 PM, medbruh said:

Can't speak directly on behalf of UofA as I picked UofC over it, but at least in the province UofA tends to have a bit more of an academic reputation. It is a 4 year school so you have the advantage of having summers off(which can be helpful in terms of both breaks but also working on CV for your residency apps). Edmonton has a bad rep especially in Eastern provinces, but it's truly a fun city with lots of adventures to be had for a young person. Great restaurant/concert/night-life scene, fantastic biking, mountains nearby(especially if you are moving from Eastern Canada). 

Both UofC and UofA have great rural integrated clerkship programs which are a bit better than the ones in Ontario or BC(at least based on my conversations with people who did them in other provinces). If you think you might have an interest pursuing any kind of a Medical specialty(Family/Emerg/Internal/Anesthesia), I think its a fantastic option that gives you some unique experience. 

Are you kidding me...have you been to Vancouver to compare?

The predominant Edmonton population demographics are middle aged families who move there due to industrial related work or cheaper real estate. And some students.

The con of U of A is Edmonton and U of A. Hard to say how exactly the curriculum compares to other programs but U of A in general is not what I would call a good university, and tends to be inflexible, very traditional, and overly academic. Edmonton does not have great concerts, night-life, and the mountains are like 4h away. I think you must be confusing it with Calgary or Vancouver. Anyone who has taken the LRT and has hung around anywhere downtown especially near Corona, Churchill square, Grandin etc etc on a weekday late evening or weekend knows why the locals call it Deadmonton (crime aside). It's an industrial city with an older population in a northern isolated location. If you compare Edmonton with Vancouver or even Calgary, and U of A with UBC or UofC, it's a night and day difference. Most of the people who love Edmonton are from Edmonton or ended up being stuck there due to school/work and come up with after the fact rationalizations. Rural, I mean yeah sure small towns in -40C weather usually in industrial locations. Anyone actually like Fort Mac? Please, it's not the Paris of the Prairies (apparently that's Sakatoon).

I'm not making this up, but they literally have places called "Tar Island" and "Bitumont" with the names being an accurate descriptor of what it looks like. Do High Level or Fort McKay and -50C tickle your fancy more? Interesting no one mentions the brutal Edmonton winter which is considerably colder than Calgary. The air is also very dry, polluted, and very conservative. You won't see snow capped mountains like in Vancouver or Calgary, but you will see flare stacks burning bright and high. Some U of A students will say Edmonton is great because almost all of them are from Alberta (many from Edmonton), and after they are stuck there, what else would they say? The smart Albertans pick U of C, and the really smart ones get out to UBC or UofT etc. A U of A former (then current) med school dean plagiarized a commencement speech and got busted, and the school once near lost its accreditation yet was aiming for "top 20 by 2020" and when it was more like top 200 it withdrew from world rankings.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, IsItTooLate said:

Are you kidding me...have you been to Vancouver to compare?

The predominant Edmonton population demographics are middle aged families who move there due to industrial related work or cheaper real estate. And some students.

The con of U of A is Edmonton and U of A. Hard to say how exactly the curriculum compares to other programs but U of A in general is not what I would call a good university, and tends to be inflexible, very traditional, and overly academic. Edmonton does not have great concerts, night-life, and the mountains are like 4h away. I think you must be confusing it with Calgary or Vancouver. Anyone who has taken the LRT and has hung around anywhere downtown especially near Corona, Churchill square, Grandin etc etc on a weekday late evening or weekend knows why the locals call it Deadmonton (crime aside). It's an industrial city with an older population in a northern isolated location. If you compare Edmonton with Vancouver or even Calgary, and U of A with UBC or UofC, it's a night and day difference. Most of the people who love Edmonton are from Edmonton or ended up being stuck there due to school/work and come up with after the fact rationalizations. Rural, I mean yeah sure small towns in -40C weather usually in industrial locations. Anyone actually like Fort Mac? Please, it's not the Paris of the Prairies (apparently that's Sakatoon).

I'm not making this up, but they literally have places called "Tar Island" and "Bitumont" with the names being an accurate descriptor of what it looks like. Do High Level or Fort McKay and -50C tickle your fancy more? Interesting no one mentions the brutal Edmonton winter which is considerably colder than Calgary. The air is also very dry, polluted, and very conservative. You won't see snow capped mountains like in Vancouver or Calgary, but you will see flare stacks burning bright and high. Some U of A students will say Edmonton is great because almost all of them are from Alberta (many from Edmonton), and after they are stuck there, what else would they say? The smart Albertans pick U of C, and the really smart ones get out to UBC or UofT etc. A U of A former (then current) med school dean plagiarized a commencement speech and got busted, and the school once near lost its accreditation yet was aiming for "top 20 by 2020" and when it was more like top 200 it withdrew from world rankings.

 

 

 

lol what does Vancouver have to do with anything? 

Good luck with med school applications bud. Hope this lovely attitude really comes through on interview days(if you get any). 

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6 hours ago, IsItTooLate said:

Are you kidding me...have you been to Vancouver to compare?

The predominant Edmonton population demographics are middle aged families who move there due to industrial related work or cheaper real estate. And some students.

The con of U of A is Edmonton and U of A. Hard to say how exactly the curriculum compares to other programs but U of A in general is not what I would call a good university, and tends to be inflexible, very traditional, and overly academic. Edmonton does not have great concerts, night-life, and the mountains are like 4h away. I think you must be confusing it with Calgary or Vancouver. Anyone who has taken the LRT and has hung around anywhere downtown especially near Corona, Churchill square, Grandin etc etc on a weekday late evening or weekend knows why the locals call it Deadmonton (crime aside). It's an industrial city with an older population in a northern isolated location. If you compare Edmonton with Vancouver or even Calgary, and U of A with UBC or UofC, it's a night and day difference. Most of the people who love Edmonton are from Edmonton or ended up being stuck there due to school/work and come up with after the fact rationalizations. Rural, I mean yeah sure small towns in -40C weather usually in industrial locations. Anyone actually like Fort Mac? Please, it's not the Paris of the Prairies (apparently that's Sakatoon).

I'm not making this up, but they literally have places called "Tar Island" and "Bitumont" with the names being an accurate descriptor of what it looks like. Do High Level or Fort McKay and -50C tickle your fancy more? Interesting no one mentions the brutal Edmonton winter which is considerably colder than Calgary. The air is also very dry, polluted, and very conservative. You won't see snow capped mountains like in Vancouver or Calgary, but you will see flare stacks burning bright and high. Some U of A students will say Edmonton is great because almost all of them are from Alberta (many from Edmonton), and after they are stuck there, what else would they say? The smart Albertans pick U of C, and the really smart ones get out to UBC or UofT etc. A U of A former (then current) med school dean plagiarized a commencement speech and got busted, and the school once near lost its accreditation yet was aiming for "top 20 by 2020" and when it was more like top 200 it withdrew from world rankings.

 

 

 

I'll agree with you on the weather, its just very cold, but UofA has a better academic rep than UofC. 

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On 1/31/2023 at 8:23 AM, medbruh said:

lol what does Vancouver have to do with anything? 

Good luck with med school applications bud. Hope this lovely attitude really comes through on interview days(if you get any). 

The part that said "it's truly a fun city with lots of adventures to be had for a young person. Great restaurant/concert/night-life scene, fantastic biking, mountains nearby"instantly reminded me of Vancouver.

By the way, today it's -20 to -30 in Edmonton (Wind Chill: -28), while in Vancouver it's about 8-10 C, plus or minus a few degrees. That says it all.

And I also heard they just sent the sheriffs to downtown Edmonton: https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/we-are-going-to-fix-this-alberta-sends-sheriffs-downtown-to-help-eps-amid-mounting-safety-concerns-1.6255169

This quote says it best: 

"In downtown Edmonton, the issues are clear: crime, homelessness, addictions, mental health are problems seen on every corner. As a result, businesses are leaving, and people are leaving," Ellis added. "Our downtown core, Chinatown and surrounding communities have felt the immense strain of a disproportionate growth in crime," McFee added. "Residents, business owners, service providers and those visiting or working in the core are losing hope."

Even the old SportChek in Edmonton City Centre is closing up shop and leaving. By the way, U of A is right across the river so practically downtown, for those who don't know or have never been. Many students do live downtown.

P.S. Don't worry, I'll get the interviews I am aiming for without any issues and my extra-curriculars are very extensive and well above average so not at all worried about that. Not my first time at the grad school or professional school rodeo. Actually LOLz on you because already went to U of A Med Faculty years ago in a joint program. Even Dr. Hinshaw got out of Edmonton, Alberta. 

 

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10 hours ago, IsItTooLate said:

The part that said "it's truly a fun city with lots of adventures to be had for a young person. Great restaurant/concert/night-life scene, fantastic biking, mountains nearby"instantly reminded me of Vancouver.

By the way, today it's -20 to -30 in Edmonton (Wind Chill: -28), while in Vancouver it's about 8-10 C, plus or minus a few degrees. That says it all.

And I also heard they just sent the sheriffs to downtown Edmonton: https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/we-are-going-to-fix-this-alberta-sends-sheriffs-downtown-to-help-eps-amid-mounting-safety-concerns-1.6255169

This quote says it best: 

"In downtown Edmonton, the issues are clear: crime, homelessness, addictions, mental health are problems seen on every corner. As a result, businesses are leaving, and people are leaving," Ellis added. "Our downtown core, Chinatown and surrounding communities have felt the immense strain of a disproportionate growth in crime," McFee added. "Residents, business owners, service providers and those visiting or working in the core are losing hope."

Even the old SportChek in Edmonton City Centre is closing up shop and leaving. By the way, U of A is right across the river so practically downtown, for those who don't know or have never been. Many students do live downtown.

P.S. Don't worry, I'll get the interviews I am aiming for without any issues and my extra-curriculars are very extensive and well above average so not at all worried about that. Not my first time at the grad school or professional school rodeo. Actually LOLz on you because already went to U of A Med Faculty years ago in a joint program. Even Dr. Hinshaw got out of Edmonton, Alberta. 

 

Aren't we getting off topic? I mean if you hate alberta that's great but come on ... that's not even the discussion so why are you so mad? 

And if we're talking about disproportionate crime... that's an unfortunate situation in many corners of numerous areas of any downtown area. In major cities there are good and bad blocks, I don't think that's new information. 

And what's with the throw to Dr. Hinshaw... she served Alberta faithfully for over a decade after she graduated PHPM residency and is absolutely amazing at her job (even if UCP threw her to the wolves). Imagine using her as the argument to support leaving Alberta... 

- G

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15 hours ago, IsItTooLate said:

The part that said "it's truly a fun city with lots of adventures to be had for a young person. Great restaurant/concert/night-life scene, fantastic biking, mountains nearby"instantly reminded me of Vancouver.

By the way, today it's -20 to -30 in Edmonton (Wind Chill: -28), while in Vancouver it's about 8-10 C, plus or minus a few degrees. That says it all.

And I also heard they just sent the sheriffs to downtown Edmonton: https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/we-are-going-to-fix-this-alberta-sends-sheriffs-downtown-to-help-eps-amid-mounting-safety-concerns-1.6255169

This quote says it best: 

"In downtown Edmonton, the issues are clear: crime, homelessness, addictions, mental health are problems seen on every corner. As a result, businesses are leaving, and people are leaving," Ellis added. "Our downtown core, Chinatown and surrounding communities have felt the immense strain of a disproportionate growth in crime," McFee added. "Residents, business owners, service providers and those visiting or working in the core are losing hope."

Even the old SportChek in Edmonton City Centre is closing up shop and leaving. By the way, U of A is right across the river so practically downtown, for those who don't know or have never been. Many students do live downtown.

P.S. Don't worry, I'll get the interviews I am aiming for without any issues and my extra-curriculars are very extensive and well above average so not at all worried about that. Not my first time at the grad school or professional school rodeo. Actually LOLz on you because already went to U of A Med Faculty years ago in a joint program. Even Dr. Hinshaw got out of Edmonton, Alberta. 

 

Dude.... Are you kidding me? I would be real careful if I were you. You need to get off your high horse and fix your attitude. You are WAY too cocky for not even being in medical school yet. I don't know what kind of personal issues you have with Edmonton as a city, but you are way too emotional about it and really need to calm down. Vancouver has that exact issue as well.... I really do hope that all these interviews you are going to get "without any issues" go well for you, because based on this answer, it would definitely be a no from my program.

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On 2/2/2023 at 4:12 PM, tPA said:

Dude.... Are you kidding me? I would be real careful if I were you. You need to get off your high horse and fix your attitude. You are WAY too cocky for not even being in medical school yet. I don't know what kind of personal issues you have with Edmonton as a city, but you are way too emotional about it and really need to calm down. Vancouver has that exact issue as well.... I really do hope that all these interviews you are going to get "without any issues" go well for you, because based on this answer, it would definitely be a no from my program.

I do have personal issues with Deadmonton, and specifically the U of A. I never said I wasn't biased.

The short version to answer the question: Generally U of A is harder and more traditional academically. U of C is 3 years (1 year less) and more "experiential".

Between Edmonton and Calgary as cities I don't think there is any comparison from the CTrain vs LRT, downtown areas, restaurants, zoo, mountains and skiing. Calgary is modern, younger and in a good location with a corporate focus, while Edmonton is industrial, too boring, and too far north and isolated.

Ok well I am glad that it's a 'no' for your program, and we're not doing interviews here are we? I am actually very, very good at most interviews lol. No one is re-inventing the wheel or being original, trust me, definitively not on "standardized" interviews. Actually I am what you would call the 1% er. Top 1% academically and professionally. I don't mean undergrad GPA or some some silly metric like that, but long term achievement wise. School wise already did several professional and grad school programs. Literally the only thing left would be an MD. The better question is would I want to even leave an executive role of authority, six figure job, no debt, high end luxury car and overseas vacation lifestyle (no not the typical Edmontonian Mexico or the Dominican by the beach trip), to be a full-time student? Not saying I'm too old or anything, but I looked at all the stats and the classes are anything but diverse since the vast majority are in the early to mid 20s range right out of undergrad for the most part with very similar academic backgrounds.

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3 hours ago, IsItTooLate said:

Generally U of A is harder and more traditional academically. U of C is 3 years (1 year less) and more "experiential".

I personally don’t have experience with 3 year programs. But wouldn’t a 3 year program be harder? I mean, it would be logical to think that it’s harder to obtain the same qualification (MD) in a shorter period of time. Just as running a marathon in 3 hours is more difficult than running one in 4 hours. 
Again, I don’t have any experience with 3 year programs (my program is 4 years) so i could be wrong.

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14 hours ago, IsItTooLate said:

I do have personal issues with Deadmonton, and specifically the U of A. I never said I wasn't biased.

The short version to answer the question: Generally U of A is harder and more traditional academically. U of C is 3 years (1 year less) and more "experiential".

Between Edmonton and Calgary as cities I don't think there is any comparison from the CTrain vs LRT, downtown areas, restaurants, zoo, mountains and skiing. Calgary is modern, younger and in a good location with a corporate focus, while Edmonton is industrial, too boring, and too far north and isolated.

Ok well I am glad that it's a 'no' for your program, and we're not doing interviews here are we? I am actually very, very good at most interviews lol. No one is re-inventing the wheel or being original, trust me, definitively not on "standardized" interviews. Actually I am what you would call the 1% er. Top 1% academically and professionally. I don't mean undergrad GPA or some some silly metric like that, but long term achievement wise. School wise already did several professional and grad school programs. Literally the only thing left would be an MD. The better question is would I want to even leave an executive role of authority, six figure job, no debt, high end luxury car and overseas vacation lifestyle (no not the typical Edmontonian Mexico or the Dominican by the beach trip), to be a full-time student? Not saying I'm too old or anything, but I looked at all the stats and the classes are anything but diverse since the vast majority are in the early to mid 20s range right out of undergrad for the most part with very similar academic backgrounds.

My two cents about UofA vs UofC, both Calgary and Edmonton are great cities (I also grew up in Vancouver for what it’s worth). Both Edmonton and Calgary have awesome restaurants and night life (Calgary’s is probably better, but edmonton’s is not that far off). I love Edmonton’s river valley for biking and running, but Calgary has awesome proximity to the mountains. With respect to the MD programs, all Canadian programs are excellent (anyone who says otherwise is uninformed). Because of Cummings’ 3 year program, their curriculum is more conducive to producing primary care practitioners like family medicine or emerge docs. U of A’s 4 year design is more traditional where you learn by organ system blocks. This is generally better for people who want to become specialists or do research. These are generalizations, of course, but if anyone gets accepted to both programs, it’s something that might be worth considering. 

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I'm a current MS4 at UofA (feel free to message me if you have more questions) and as someone who also did my undergrad here, I'll add that the weather is very manageable. 

Summers are some of the most beautiful I've ever seen and as for the winters, the -30C and below is usually only for 3-4 weeks out of all of winter. It is of course very easy if you have outdoor hobbies and want to do those things in the winter. As someone with mostly indoor hobbies I can attest that is also very easy to pursue those all year round and easily find people who share your interests. As for going to the mountains, yes it is obviously a longer drive than if you were in Calgary, it is still doable in 1 day from Edmonton. And besides, you will not have much time to be going to the mountains regardless of what school you go to. medical school is rigorous and you'll have other things to do that take up most of your time. 

As for the "deadmonton" debate, I will say that Edmonton is a city that becomes what you make of it. If you seek out fun things to do, you will have an abundant and long list of many things going on in the city that you can take part in. if you decide to be grumpy and sit in your house to be a hermit, you will find the city is boring and dull. It can give you that large city feel if you prefer that, and can also be more small town vibes if you are into that. 

I chose UofA for medicine over Calgary because overall I feel that the program is more accommodating and has higher match rates, particularly for people wanting to do something other than family medicine. I also wanted my summers off and felt like the 3 years would be rushed and chaotic. Being near the end now, I don't regret my choice at all and feel that the program has done everything they can to maximize everyone's chances of matching into their specialty of choice. Years 1 and 2 are systems based and there is longitudinal anatomy (with full cadaver lab), communications and clinical skills woven in (lots of shadowing opportunities as well). They do a good job of preparing you for clerkship. Years 3 and 4 are well organized with electives time being built in to both of those years. Edmonton has every (or most I believe) of the entry level specialties so that makes it very easy to explore your interests and start building your portfolio for Carms. UofA in general has a very strong research side so if you wish to get involved, there is an abundance of opportunities to choose from and there are lots of projects and funding for medical students to do research. Something else to note about Calgary's program is that they do their electives at the very start of clerkship, before they have even done any of their core clinical rotations - from friends who are in that program I've been told that this is very intimidating when you are still so new to being a clerk. Obviously UofC students still get letters and match but just something to keep in mind I guess. 

Also, instead of spreading hate about a city in which you have not done medical school and therefore cannot even answer the question that is being asked by the OP, lets maybe go touch some grass and spread positivity instead. 

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On 2/9/2023 at 5:43 AM, IsItTooLate said:

 

Ok well I am glad that it's a 'no' for your program, and we're not doing interviews here are we? I am actually very, very good at most interviews lol. No one is re-inventing the wheel or being original, trust me, definitively not on "standardized" interviews. Actually I am what you would call the 1% er. Top 1% academically and professionally. I don't mean undergrad GPA or some some silly metric like that, but long term achievement wise. School wise already did several professional and grad school programs. Literally the only thing left would be an MD. The better question is would I want to even leave an executive role of authority, six figure job, no debt, high end luxury car and overseas vacation lifestyle (no not the typical Edmontonian Mexico or the Dominican by the beach trip), to be a full-time student? Not saying I'm too old or anything, but I looked at all the stats and the classes are anything but diverse since the vast majority are in the early to mid 20s range right out of undergrad for the most part with very similar academic backgrounds.

You would make a great surgeon. 

- G 

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On 2/9/2023 at 5:43 AM, IsItTooLate said:

I do have personal issues with Deadmonton, and specifically the U of A. I never said I wasn't biased.

The short version to answer the question: Generally U of A is harder and more traditional academically. U of C is 3 years (1 year less) and more "experiential".

Between Edmonton and Calgary as cities I don't think there is any comparison from the CTrain vs LRT, downtown areas, restaurants, zoo, mountains and skiing. Calgary is modern, younger and in a good location with a corporate focus, while Edmonton is industrial, too boring, and too far north and isolated.

Ok well I am glad that it's a 'no' for your program, and we're not doing interviews here are we? I am actually very, very good at most interviews lol. No one is re-inventing the wheel or being original, trust me, definitively not on "standardized" interviews. Actually I am what you would call the 1% er. Top 1% academically and professionally. I don't mean undergrad GPA or some some silly metric like that, but long term achievement wise. School wise already did several professional and grad school programs. Literally the only thing left would be an MD. The better question is would I want to even leave an executive role of authority, six figure job, no debt, high end luxury car and overseas vacation lifestyle (no not the typical Edmontonian Mexico or the Dominican by the beach trip), to be a full-time student? Not saying I'm too old or anything, but I looked at all the stats and the classes are anything but diverse since the vast majority are in the early to mid 20s range right out of undergrad for the most part with very similar academic backgrounds.

Mr. DDS, DVM, JD, PhD, MSc with "several professional and graduate degrees," you incline me to believe that you must be around the ballpark of at least half a century old. It's funny how we call older applicants mature, when in fact that is clearly not the case...

Really though, I don't know what is making you this insecure. From your username, I'd hazard a guess that you've experienced some rough patches with the medical school admissions process. This process is (and should be) humbling for everyone, so let it play its course and give it your best shot.

But I still cannot see the reason that would compel someone to behave so angrily towards strangers who ask curious questions and impart their wisdom.

Your last paragraph reminds me of a pt who presented with similarly grandiose delusions and Cluster B narcissistic traits. The difference between this pt and you is that the former had a diagnosed illness. All this to say, until proven otherwise, people will call you an insufferable a-hole.

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17 hours ago, GH0ST said:

I was just kidding and being facetious, but seriously though? I've met tons of arrogant people in surg. 

- G 

They might seem arrogant outside of surgery but within the field theres no tolerance for arrogance unless you are a senior surgeon. Also sometimes arrogance is misinterpreted, in surgery itself most of what we do is time sensitive, which both draws in impatient types but also makes you impatient. I think that impatience can come off sounding arrogant to people with less time urgency. 

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2 hours ago, Edict said:

They might seem arrogant outside of surgery but within the field theres no tolerance for arrogance unless you are a senior surgeon. Also sometimes arrogance is misinterpreted, in surgery itself most of what we do is time sensitive, which both draws in impatient types but also makes you impatient. I think that impatience can come off sounding arrogant to people with less time urgency. 

excellent explanation to be fair and I've seen it go either way... gives me a lot to reflect on actually

thanks for the wholesome contribution I appreciate it

- G 

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