Question for U of T students

[Guest greggreg]

What are typical class averages for first year science courses at U of T such as BIO150, CHM138, and PHY138?

 

Are class averages generally the same in all U of T courses?

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

[Guest CTU24]

Basically all 1st year science courses at U of T have a C-C+ average at the end

 

A word to the wise, a class avg tells you little. For instance, 90+% was more attainable in 1st year courses than in upper year courses that have B avgs (b/c of curving at the end of the course). Of course, this all depends on your program too.

 

Why are you wondering? If this will impact the school you go to for undergrad, I suggest you visit the earlier post comparing undergrad institutions b/c class avgs really should have no impact on your choice or med school chances.

 

Hope that helped,

 

--CTU24

[Guest daryn]

This should be in the Toronto forum but anyway

 

Let me tell you about this year (03-04)

 

Bio150 B-

CHM139 C+

MAT135 C+

PHY138 B-

 

At U of T, they make sure averages stay around the C+ range. (that's a rule)

 

I agree with CTU24. Also, you never know how you are actually going to fare (compared with the other kids) until you are actually there. It is such a big class in your first year that you are going to find so many people of various abilities.

[Guest coastal79]

Why would you care about the average, unless you are planning on being average? Work hard and it doesn't matter.

[Guest Lactic Folly]

Yeah, some of my lowest marks were in those more advanced classes with A- averages :b

[Guest UofT Student]

Yes, not only do you have to look at the average, but you also have to look at the standard deviation to gauge approximately how well you could do in a class. But, of course, UofT refuses to give you this information, and instead only gives you the average. They don't tell you if many people are clumped at the average or if the distribution is more spread out.

[Guest s sadry]

here is a list of averages that someone compiled on a first year u of t life sci forum. i hope it doesn't influence your decision much..for example. i was very close not to taking PSY 100 because i heard the tests were killer and there was a lot of reading. this did not deter me and psych ended up being my favourite and best course. but since you asked, here you go.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

ANT100Y1 Intro Anthropology C

BIO150Y1 Organisms in Environ B-

CHM138H1S Intro Org Chemistry I B-

CHM138H1F Intro Org Chemistry I B-

CHM139H1S C+

CHM151Y C+

CLA201H1S Scientific Terminology latin/greek: B-

CLA204H1S C+

CSC108H1S C

CSC148 C

CSC165 C(?)

ECO100 C+

ECO105 B-

FOR301 B-

GER200 B

GGR107 Environment, Food, Population C+

GGR124 Urbanization C+

GLG130H1S Exploration of the Solar System: C+

HPS210H1F Scientific Revolutions: C+

LIN100Y1 Intr Gen inguistics C

LIN203 English Words C+

MAT135 C+

MAT137 C

MAT157 B-

MAT223H1S C

MGT120 C

MUS110 C+

MUS111 C+

PHL100Y C+

PHL200Y1 Ancient Philosophy C+

PHL210Y1 17-18th Cent Philsphy B-

PHL237H1 Chinese Philosophies C+

PHL271H1S Law & Morality B-

PHY110Y Basic Physics C+

PHY138Y1 Phys for Life Sci I B-

POL108Y1 C+

PSY100Y1 Intro Psychology C+

SOC101Y Intro Sociology C

[Guest Steve U of T]

Actually, I think it is possible to get information on the grade distribution of any U of T class. I've never asked for them myself, but I've been told that you can go to your college registrar's office, and they keep grade distributions on file for every course.

[Guest greggreg]

How do these class averages compare to class averages from other schools, for example Mac and Waterloo?

[Guest s sadry]

being a U of T student...I can't tell you. an average, depends on many factors..the number of students, the quality of students, the difficulty of the course (which is what you seem to care about), whether there are extreme values in teh scores (in which the median would be a more relevant measure of central tendency). with all of these factors, you may not be able to correlate averages with difficulty.

[Guest jacksonchan85]

averages mean nothing as was mentioned in a previous thread - a B average means everyone was clumped around the 72-78 (approximate range) making it very difficult to get an A- or above

[Guest codloghorn]

if averages mean nothing, why did you ask this question in the first place? |I

[Guest RXK]

CTU24,

 

"...(b/c of curving at the end of the course)..."

 

do u mean that they actually bell down the final grades, or do they just make the final test/exam harder?

 

Thanks,

 

RXK

[Guest CTU24]

Hi RXK...

 

it's actually a combination of both. U of T requires its course averages to be in a C+ range, and departments/profs must submit a written report explaining a different result. As a result, the difficulty of final exams is set to obtain a certain average. If this doesn't work, marks are then belled.

 

Of course, B, B+, and A- averages exists, but the variation around the mean is usually low and the class sizes very small.

 

Just so you know, this info comes from personal expereince...where my final marks were mathematically impossible unless the marks were curved up or down.

 

This may seem unfair, the argument is it ensures students in different years are treated to the same difficulty level.

 

Hope that answers your question,

 

CTU24

[Guest Steve U of T]

The policies regarding grade distributions and course averages apply to all class of 30 students or greater, and a course average is calculated only for classes of at least 12 students (I've taken 2 classes that were smaller, and hence have an asterisk on my transcript where the course average normally is). It's interesting to see the difference in attitude between the profs from large and small classes. In first year physics, with over a thousand students, one of the tests had an 80 average, and they lowered everybody's grade for that test at the end of the year (although they boosted the final exam grades slightly). I took a 4th year course on physiological instrumentation and electronics with only 4 undergrads (and a bunch of grad students). The class average on the first test was 78, and the professors apologized, saying that was the toughest part of the course. The average on the second test was 90%, and the profs were very happy.

 

I have taken several classes of greater than 30 students that ended up with a B or B+ average, although it is true that the professors were required to justify the grades.

 

However, as somebody else mentioned before, don't worry about the averages. In my frosh week, when people told me the first physics test would have a 50 average, a) I didn't really believe them, and I didn't care, because I've never considered myself average. If you are reasonably smart and work hard, you will be above average.

[Guest UTStudent03]

However, as somebody else mentioned before, don't worry about the averages. In my frosh week, when people told me the first physics test would have a 50 average, a) I didn't really believe them, and I didn't care, because I've never considered myself average. If you are reasonably smart and work hard, you will be above average.

 

Well said. Don't worry about the class average; concern yourself with how you do in the class. You'll do fine, believe me. Good luck.

[Guest blinknoodle]

I took a 4th year course on physiological instrumentation and electronics with only 4 undergrads (and a bunch of grad students). The class average on the first test was 78, and the professors apologized, saying that was the toughest part of the course. The average on the second test was 90%, and the profs were very happy.

Steve,

 

But what is the average a grad student must maintain to remain in their program? I thought a B+ was in essence almost a fail in grad studies!!

 

-bn

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

But what is the average a grad student must maintain to remain in their program?

Good point! Here's the UofT School of Graduate Studies grading policy for graduate students:

 

PART II: GRADUATE GRADING PROCEDURES

 

Excellent: A+, A, A- (80-100%)

Good: B+, B, B- (70-79%)

Inadequate: F (0-69%)

 

So technically, graduate students, as long as they don't fail, will receive a mark ranging from 70-100%, which has a median of 85%. Thus, a B+ average for a graduate course is lower than the median. In our graduate department, an A- is considered to be a minimally-competent mark for graduate work, given that many grants and scholarships rest on an academic average of A- or above.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest Steve U of T]

Yes, you're probably right about the grad students. I think anything below 70 is a failing grade, although their overall gpa needs to be higher, probably around B+ or A- to complete their program, so the professors generally allow their grades to be higher. The averages on the tests included all the grad students, although I think the average of the undergrads was probably about the same as the average of the entire class. Since there were so few undergrads, the profs allowed our grades to be just as high. In joint undergrad/grad courses with more than 30 undergrads, the profs try to keep the undergrad class average lower, in the B or B+ range, and the grad students often get higher grades (due to a different evaluation scheme).