Guest newbee Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 I was wondering how hard is med school when compared to Undergrad. Is it really a pramp up interms of volume and level of difficulty? I have also heard that alot of people break up with their boyfriends / girlfriends when in medschool and even in residency because the hours are just so demanding. I would love to hear what people's experiences have been. Thanks Newbee:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kosmo14 Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 I would have to say for me in first year the concepts aren't that difficult, but it is the quantity of info. thrown at you. I think I have at least 3 times the amount of material I had in my hardest year prior to medicine. At the same time I don't think someone has to break up with thier girlfriend/boyfriend due to the time demanded. It is all about how you set your priorities and manage your time. One other point to note is the fact that most of the information I am learning is interesting and somewhat useful so the extra volume is not that much of a chore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 The analogy that everyone throws around during Orientation is "trying to take a drink from a fire hose." The material comes at you much faster than undergrad, but the level of difficulty isn't hard. The fact that a lot of what you learn is clinically-applicable (less so in the first two years, definitely so in the last two), makes it much easier to get motivated to learn. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Ian, That's always been an interesting statement to me. While I realize that the volume of information is much greater than in other areas of study...one of the things I believe I've learned over the years is how to identify the "most important" things to learn in detail...the other stuff is learned but not necessarily in as much detail. I guess while a firehose is pouring out water at a rate one could not possibly drink from...just because it is there does it mean one has to stick their faces right in the middle of the force? Can you not "drink from the side of the stream" so you don't drown...or is that just unrealistic? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheech10 Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Some people are quite good at identifying things to study/things that are likely to be asked. If you can, it will definitely decrease your study requirements, particularly in years 1 and 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mying Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 One of the challenges is that what YOU think is important isn't necessarily what's going to be tested. So in addition to studying the things you feel are important to know for your future career, you have to also study the huge quantity of material needed to actually pass the exam. You know it when you feel it. It's a LOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest therealcrackers Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Many of our profs tell us that there is so much material that you can't study it all. That statement, of course, prompts a lot of people to try, and many succeed. I would say that the material in first year meds is pitched at a level that is between third and fourth year undergrad, and that second year meds is at the level between fourth year undergrad and first year of grad school. The biggest difference is the volume; can you open your brain wide enough to let it all in? And looking back at first year, I see how very much more work you do in second year than in first, but you can use that material from first year as a bunch of pegs to hook the new knowledge. Intense? The most intense period so far has been second trimester exams for us (late last month). There were some people in our class who studied 6-10 hours a day for 6 weeks to get through blocks of Neuro, Psych, Genitourinary, and Musculoskeletal (in Medicine, Pathology, and Pharmacology). We also had projects due the first week of March. It's amazing how much you can get done once you really begin to focus. Having other people around you who do similar amounts of work is wonderful as well; you can identify your blindspots, integrate and synthesize your knowledge, and ask questions back and forth. It can backfire: some people get extraordinarily stressed out by exams, and that anxiety is so visible and palpable that it rubs off on other people. You can try to figure out what's important and likely to be tested and cut your work down accordingly, if you're good at it. Occasionally, you get burned: I studied a lot of epilepsy and anti-epiletic drugs for the last exam, with a grand total of 1 MCQ (when it's something you'll see everyday). In contrast, a piece of obscurata like a central retinal artery occlusion (which an internist might see twice in 30 years) was the subject of a 5-mark short answer question. Yes it's nuts, but at this stage, it's what you need to do to get where you want to be: an MD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 I loved that analogy, mayflower. I think that is EXACTLY what you need to do to get through it all. Yes, you can spend 6-10 hours a day for weeks to try and know the inside and outside of every little detail. There are people who love the material that much and are so used to driving themselves to high 90 percentages that they do exactly that. But I think being a good med student means being good at EVERYTHING - not just school, but athletics, being involved in some worthwhile and rewarding activities such as volunteer, clubs or the like. Essentially all that stuff you threw down on your autobiographical sketch. Plus you need down time. . . my impression is that more people burn out of med school than fail out. Then there's the whole girlfriend/boyfriend issue. Despite the fact you can't put your significant other on your resume for CaRMS ( ), and they suck up A LOT of time, I still say it's TOTALLY WORTH IT to maintain those kind of relationships in med school. I'm going to add more to this when I have more time. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Hi there, I was speaking with a UofT medical school prof a couple of weeks ago and he described the ability of a medical school graduate in more visual terms: they have to be able to comfortably move across a wide range of different subjects, but on command, they must be able to take any one of those subjects and burrow deeply into it. Once graduating from a residency, a specialist must be able to burrow all the deeper. His hand gestures helped, but neat, eh? Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QM6 Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Classic, that "firehose" bit - our Microbiology and Immunology yearbook at McGill summarised the undergrad learning experience as "sipping cool lemonade from a straw, just replacing the straw with a firehose and the cool lemonade with hot searing acid". Compared to that though, I'm finding med school a lot less stress-inducing than undergrad. For one, Queen's is really good at spelling out the objectives for each phase/block in the syllabus so you know exactly what to concentrate on - ie what you need to "know" and be able to spell out vs what you just need to "understand". You don't get your grades back, but based on your mistakes you get a summary of the objectives that you missed out on. Every question on the exams can be traced back to a learning objective in the syllabus. I think med school profs have a different attitude from undergrad - here most of them are MDs themselves and get straight to the point of what you need to know in practice. Whereas in undergrad, profs didn't really know where you were going (though neither did we students, I guess) and what you'd need to know when you get there, so they figured, you should know everything for the exam. Motivation's part of it too - in undergrad the worst thing that'd happen if you missed something is your GPA takes a hit. Here if you miss something patients might end up hurt or dead. Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit, but at the very least you don't want to look bad come clerkship when the staff/residents are "pimping"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Praeludium Posted April 1, 2003 Report Share Posted April 1, 2003 I have to agree with QM6 here. I also did M & I at McGill and having ended up at U of Alberta, I gotta say that I haven't been as relaxed for at least two years. At U of A anyways, it seems they work you in gradually. The first month was pretty much a lot of free time to meet your class and get used to being in medicine. As we get into the more clinical blocks, I think students intuitively learn to identify what is important and what is not. In general, our exams seem to focus more on the clinical (symptoms, labs, diagnosis, treatment). Theory like physiology and histology is important, but the exams are supposed to be what we'd see in the wards. You can never shake those classmates of yours who really want to learn all the details, but it really isn't necessary. Personally, I'd be more concerned about forgetting it all after the exam is done. But knowing that this stuff is actually applicable and important motivates you differently to really know the material in a different way than to get that high GPA to get into med in the first place... but I digress. Upper years keep reminding us to enjoy our 1st year because of all the free time, and if you check out the 2006 website, you'll find that we really do a lot of stuff outside of academics. Literally every weekend there is some extracurricular going on. This weekend, there's the Rich Man Poor Man global inequality dinner, and memorial service for the families of our cadavers (with performaces by the choir, etc). Last weekend was a ski trip to Jasper (aka rural medicine promotion). Previous weekend was the infamous MedShow (SNL on Viagra). Before that was Med Formal. Etc. Etc. To sum it up, when you get in, the intensity of med school shouldn't be a worry at all. Just keep in mind that as wards begin (3rd year and beyond), things start to change, and we never see those people anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest McMastergirl Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 I'm a clerk at McMaster, and from what I've read here and my own experiences, med school is pretty much what YOU make of it. I think this is particularly true of Mac. As you may know, Mac has fewer "exams" than other schools. In a way, that is very stress-reducing, because you're not constantly cramming and worrying about what will be on the test. In another way, it's stress-provoking, because you feel a bit lost most of the time. Am I learning enough? Am I really absorbing all of this? Do I really understand it? Hence, all those lovely questions on Mac's admissions essay - such as "How do you know when you've learned enough?" The first day of med school when all of the big-wigs were showering us with wisdom, someone put up an overhead to show that a passing grade on the LMCC the year before was 40% (or something like that)... and made the point that by the time we're done med school we will not be expected to know everything. We will have a good base to expand from in residency. MayFlower makes an excellent point about learning well what is most important. (why aren't you at Mac yet??? ) This is really emphasized at Mac by the faculty. As mentioned above, you will always have classmates who try to learn everything, but don't let them stress you out - learn at your own pace. This is especially do-able at Mac because of the large amount of unstructured time available in the pre-clinical years. The bottom line from my point of view is that med school is still stressful (of course), but in a much different way than undergrad was. If you've done any grad school, as I have, it is more comparable to that experience in my mind (at least at Mac). If I could just make a final point, about relationships... in my class, I've seen relationships fail and thrive through med school. I broke up with my long-term, long-distance boyfriend during a particularly stressful time, only to find that life was much better with him in it (and yes, we're back together! ) McMastergirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 McMastergirl, MayFlower makes an excellent point about learning well what is most important. (why aren't you at Mac yet??? ) This is really emphasized at Mac by the faculty. As mentioned above, you will always have classmates who try to learn everything, but don't let them stress you out - learn at your own pace. This is especially do-able at Mac because of the large amount of unstructured time available in the pre-clinical years. Believe it or not, I'm not confident that Mac's style of learning and my style of learning are a good fit. Sure, I enjoy and am quite capable of self-directed learning...but I do require a bit more structure...I thrive in an environment with a good balance of classroom time, self-directed learning and group learning. This may reflect my ignorance of McMaster's program, however, from friends I have spoken with who went there...and posts in this forum...I've come to the conclusion that it's not for me. That being said, everyone I've met that has graduated from Mac is top notch...the program turns out amazing docs...this isn't a beef about the program...it's, again, more about personal fit. The one thing that really does intrigue me about Mac is the 3 versus 4 years of training...quite compelling! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest McMastergirl Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 That's great Mayflower, I think it requires real insight into yourself to say it's not for you. It certaintly doesn't fit all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Thanks McMastergirl, I'd love to go to Mac...but, left alone to entirely guide my own studies...I'd get stuck on the first subject and never be able to know when I'm finished learning it...it would be terribly embarassing to get stuck on the first PBL question...never being able to learn everything about it... :lol It would be even more embarassing to finish med school only knowing, in detail of course, the first block! :eek Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmh2005 Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Hey there...it was great chatting with you yesterday...Ottawa HAS to work out for you this year!!!! I have to agree with McMaster girl...you would totally fit in here....I just feel like I need to clear up the misnomer that we only do self-directed learning, really that's not the case at all....we have lectures and formal teaching sessions, usually 3 a week lasting from 2-3 hours each...clinical skills is taught... we have a preceptor who teaches us skills and then lets us practice on patients (allows you to put your learning and the teaching into practice...)...for each subunit, Cardio, Nephro, Endo, etc...we are given a clear set of objectives that we must know by the end of the subunit...ie. understand calcium metabolism, specifically the roles and interplay between the PTH glands, bone, kidney and the GI tract....just for example... Today in tutorial (also for example...) we had this problem with a 54 year old woman with high Ca++ labs, osteopenia, etc...so for our next tutorial, we are going to learn about osteoporosis and osteopenia, Ca++ metabolism, primary hyperparathyroidism (that's what she had...) and all the labs and tests she underwent (we do that each time...). One of the women in my tutorial wanted to learn about the safety of cow's milk and the promotion of calcium by physicians...a few people in the tutorial thought that we have enough on our plates...so she is going to do this on her own...this is important to her...someone may spend 3 hours reading about all very intricate biochemistry of Ca++ metabolism, but I will spend more of my time on the basics and essentials of Ca++ metabolism and more on the clinical presentation and how I might wish to work someone up who presents with these symptoms...for me the enzymes in the reactions aren't important, I need to know they exist and things can go wrong here, but someone who wants to do endocrinology in the future may feel they must know each step... Really, that is self-directed learning like we do it at Mac...I write this for those of you who think that Mac is so unstructured, but in fact it is not...a great balance between lectures, tutorials and small group sessions...so, if you have the choice, don't rule Mac out...! Best of luck to everyone!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest misagh Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 Thank you so much jmh2005 for your very insightful post!!! Your example helped me paint a unique picture of Mac life Any chance the interviewees will see you this Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmh2005 Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 Yes, I will be there both Saturday and Sunday doing admin stuff...I'll have my name tag on, come over and say hello!! Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MayFlower1 Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 jmh2005, McMastergirl, Thanks for the clarification...and for saying I would fit in...perhaps it is true?! Maybe, if I don't get into Ottawa this year I might think about the possibility once again...I'm really hoping I don't have to do this again, though! :x jmh2005...you'll really like misaugh...he's a cool guy...we met up doing mocks with some of the first year med students at UofO a few weeks ago. misaugh, kick some butt at your mac interview, ok? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jmh2005 Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 Peter, I think Ottawa Meds has a computer with your name on it!! Chat with you soon!! Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest McMastergirl Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 Jess you certainly made a good point that Mac isn't TOTALLY self-directed. The biggest "downfall" of Mac is that if you are totally unmotivated to learn, you might be able to get away with doing the bare minimum with the way we are evaluated - more so than with a traditional format anyway. I have a classmate or two I can think of that are probably getting by that way. But really, most people who are motivated enough to go through the med school application process are motivated enough to direct their own learning! In my first year I remember often feeling "lost" but there is lots of guidance if you seek it. So MayFlower, good luck with Ottawa, but you would do great at Mac and enjoy yourself immensely like we do! Take care M. P.S. Another great thing about Mac is that if you WANT to learn about enzymes, you can, and you can teach your tutorial mates about it even if they didn't study it - everybody wins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unknown </username> <dateline>1118448840</dateline> <title>Unknown</title> <pagetext>(This Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 (This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext> </post> <post> <thread>Y</thread> <threadtitle>OMA SARS Guidelines Published</threadtitle> <threadviews>0</threadviews> <threadsticky>0</threadsticky> <poll></poll> <username>MayFlower1</username> <dateline>1049461440</dateline> <title>OMA SARS Guidelines Published</title> <pagetext>For your interest...the OMA circulated guidelines for SARS yesterday...this is what we have published at our family medicine clinic: STOP! DO NOT ENTER IF IN THE LAST 10 DAYS YOU HAVE: Been in China, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Singapore, or Taiwan OR Been in unprotected contact with a person with SARS OR Been at a hospital that is now closed because of SARS AND IF YOU ALSO HAVE Fever, headache, muscle aches, malaise, cough or shortness of breath DO NOT ENTER GO TO THE NEAREST EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT OR SARS CLINIC Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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