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People who go into dent becuz they can't go to med


Guest LestatZinnie

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Guest LestatZinnie

just want to vent...if there is anything that i despise, it's people who apply to dental school as back up for med school. imo these are two very different kind of profession and one should not go into it unless the passion and dedication is there. there is one guy on studentdoctor.net who is obvious bitter as he is going to dent school rather than med because of his 'health problems'. he then proceeds to belittle all the dentists and extolling the virtues of being doctors. my question would be, why bother going to dent then?? he is certainly not doing himself, his patients, or other dent students a favor. you guys know people like that in your class?

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Guest UWOMED2005

Isn't it just as hard to get into Dental school as med school? I know classmates who applied to both, but few saw Dentistry as an easier to get in backup. I think that would be foolish.

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Guest LestatZinnie

sorry I should have mentioned that the individual I'm talking about is located in USA, where it is considerably easier to get into dent school due to the plethora of private schools that basically let you in if you're willing to pay. The situation in Canada is indeed different, where entrance stats for med and dent are of comparable difficulty (gpa wise). However, I do think that dent is a little easier for those who are academically competent but lacking in extracurricular activities or achievements outside classroom, since the interview process is not as rigorous as med school. On the other hand, people who do well in community work, etc may have a better shot at med school since the schools do emphasize on these kind of stuff. so i guess each faculty have their own difficulties. I for one know one person who can't get in dent here because he can't carve for the life of him, and he ended up in med. however, as aforementioned dent is A LOT easier to get in in USA (u hear ppl with 3.2, 3.3 all getting in), probably due to existence of private schools and big class size (in the hundreds), so there is a perception that dent students are med school rejects, which i do not agree at all. at least such is not the case in Canada. the place where I see most med (and dent) rejects is grad school.

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Guest Skippybarf

It shouldn't matter to you at all what reason one has for choosing a program or vocation. If someone who is obviously unsure about his own desires chooses dentistry as a backup, who cares? he's the one who's going to be/might be miserable when he's drilling teeth. You should think only about yourself, that you want to pursue what you want and $!#$~ everyone else. Don't compare yourself to doctors (not that you were), to other dentists or anyone else. It could make you insane. I can't understand to begin with why dentistry is so often compared to medicine. They are entirely different. For me, I could never be a doctor. Couldn't handle feeling someone's tumor, playing with guys balls or doing all that gross stuff doctors do. Dentists have their own gross stuff but not as gross in my opinion. But, the two are TOTALLY seperate fields and should be treated as such. Dentistry is better though...

:)

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Guest toothy

hmm I think it does matter why people are choosing dentistry. It would be better if they enjoy doing it, or grow to love the profession. If someone got in as a backup, or solely for money they will be miserable when they graduate, and maybe some of that stress will affect patients and the overall reputation of the industry.

 

There will always be people applying to dents as a backup in case they don't get in meds, but my advice is that if they have no interest in it at first, at least do some job shadowing to see if it looks like something that might grow on them. The tuition is too high to take a couple of years and then drop if it's not your cup of tea.

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I do understand why some people decide to apply to both dent and med, because they do not really know what they truly want, and there are some people that do it as a backup either dent or med. However, both dent and med are very competitive in Canada, I know ppl who got into med school didn't get an interview for dent, and vice versa. To be honest, they are entirely different profession, and you must truly love what you are doing to find excitement and satisfaction pursuing your career choice.

 

I have met people who is total miserable in both dent and med school, because they went in for all the wrong reasons! Anyways, good luck to all of you on your future endeavours!

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Guest Koggetsu

You have to realize that not everyone has the luxury to go and wait to find a career that they truly love, many people simply need a good career now for their family or whatever. There are so many things in our lives that we must do that we don't like or even hate, being a dentist because you don't "truly" love the job or you cannot get into medicine is not a bad thing at all in my mind. How many people who cannot get into anything after 4 years of undergrad and cannot find a decent job would kill to be in these people's positions!

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Guest bio792003

I’ve heard some students say that they love dentistry. I think that people are used to exaggerate things either to persuade themselves or other people.

I am wondering if these students would peruse dentistry if a dentist would make only 40K a year, just for the love of it. This is the question !

I think that Koggetsu is right that not many people have the luxury to do what they really want to do . However, the most important thing once you get to do it,is to be dedicated and always put the patients benefit above your own interest

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Guest Koggetsu

haha, that is not really a fair question, cause I'm sure most people have other interests or hobbies that they would like to pursue if they had all that money. I know I do.

 

but i mean u can ask the same question to the med people as easily as u ask the dentists, would u still be in medicine/dentistry if u only get paid 40k a year rather than like 100k a year?

 

but as bio792003 said the improtant thing is that once u get into the profession, u just do the best job u can to serve your customers

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Guest dentistwannabe

Based on what you guys have discussed about various factors that may influence career choice i.e finacial reasons, convenience, etc, when did you guys decide you wanted to become dentists? based on what reasons? and for all those who never shadowed a dentist how do you know if this is what you want to do for the rest of your life without any hands on experience in the field?

I'm at a stage of my life where I'm not 110% sure what I want to do with my life, I mean I haven't found a passion for a vocational interest, I dont want to do a job, I want a career that I'm really passionate about, when I think of careers for example being a lawyeror a teacher, everything sounds doable like I can see myself doing these careers, but I dont want to see my self just doing them I want to see myself loving what I do, because you know money only has a short-term effect, studies have shown that people who have won the lottery have the same level of happiness before and after winning. So, I'm leaving my options open and dentistry is a looking like a good possibility as I'm shadowing a dentist and I have volunteered in many other settings and I'm preferring to do this over the rest, I was just curious to know others opinions on why they decided to go into what they do and if anyone else at times feels as confused or afraid as I do about making the right choice?

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Guest batman

What do you call a doctor who flunks out of med school?

A dentist!

(sorry, i had to throw that one in...)

 

but seriously, i do know quite a few people in Dent who absolutely love it, and were passionate about Dentistry from the start. And speaking of similarities, what about at McGill where Dent and Med are together for the first two years?

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Guest Skippybarf

I've talked with MANY dentists, orthos, etc. Every one i have spoken with has told me they LOVE what they do. Dentistry is not just sticking your hands in someone's mouth. It is very hands on and each day varies signifigantly from the next. But let's be realistic here.

No job is great unless youre a musician or an athlete or something of that nature. A job is called a job because that's what it is. Who grows up and wants to be a gynecologist/optamologist/dermatologist?

If i won the lottery I damn well would not do dentistry/medicine/law or any of that. If dentistry only paid 40K a year, who would do it? Go to school for 4 years to make pennies? I'm not 100% sure i want to do dentistry but for as long as i can remember ive wanted to become an ortho. I liked my ortho's office. It was fun going there and i want the same atmosphere in my future office, if i have one and if i get in.

cheers

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Guest UWOMED2005

I don't know, I think what most doctors do is pretty damn cool. And I'm sure there are other people out there that would love to do that as much as be a rock star, annoying boy-band idol, or overpaid overweight baseball player hitting .197 but still raking in the dough.

 

And if I won the lottery, I think I would still practice medicine. . . though I'd probably do it only part-time with not as many patients so as to minimize stress, and probably take lots of time off to travel the world. After all, sitting on a beach sipping margueritas would be cool for a couple of weeks, but after much more time than that, it would get boring.

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Guest bio792003

Obviously , a dentist will always say that he/she loves dentistry. It would be awkward to hear a dentist say otherwise. I am not saying that dentistry is bad, but it’s nothing special. You arre working with your hands like any dental technician and unfortunately you don’t get much respect for it.

In contrast , medicine gets much more respect. When you say you are a doctor, people look up to you. But I don’t think that all the medical specialties are cool. For instance family medicine is pretty boring , prescribing aspirin and antibiotics all day long .But again, no family physician will ever say that his/her job is boring.

BTW if I won 10 million$ I would help my family and my friends with some money, than I would move to Spain and live there for the rest of my life From Spain, I would send you a postcard with my thoughts about dentistry and medicine. :hat

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I am not saying that you have to actually love your career to pursue it, but you may find it more rewarding if that is the case.

I do understand that not everyone is born with a silver spoon in his/her mouth, I, myself, am not born with a silver spoon.

Let make a comparsion, let say you had an engineering degree after 4yrs ($40-60k /year), arts degree ($25-$45k / yr) and medicine (15k /year tuition + other expenses for 4 yrs). What is the opportunity cost on that! Also, residency (for all meds and some dents) you don't get paid anything per hour basis...... It is a big investment! Some people pursued these careers not merely based on income, just imagine the debt that you will accumulate from undergrad to professional faculty more than 120k.... You might argue that you can make $70-100k post grad as a dentist, but that's pre-tax!!! after tax probably only 40-60k.... what about living expense, etc, and versus the interest on the loan! I bet you can probably only pay off 15k (prinicipal + interest per year) with little saving! Thus, you will be a lot happier knowing that this is what you love rather then merely to survive.

 

If I won the lottery ($30mil that has not yet been claimed yet) I would still pursue that career, but I will spend a little bit more time with my family and kids. Because I find the profession to be very rewarding.

I am going to be dent student in the upcoming year as a dent student. I have worked my way to save up enough money to pay for my tuition. I make 60k per year, the opportunity cost on my 4 year for dent will be more than 300K. And yes I will make a little bit more after I grad, but only 20-30k diff. It will take 10years to make up the diff without factoring in capital gains and interests.

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Guest bio792003

If you don’t mint, what exactly do you feel that is rewarding in dentistry( b/c medicine I can understand, save lives, respect, etc)?

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Guest UWOMED2005

Have you ever been to Spain? Sounds like you haven't. I have - great place to visit with beautiful beaches, fantastic nightlife, passionate people, beautiful women and varied architecture. But I also worked with a Spanish med student, and from what he's told me I don't think I would ever want to live there. It's too chaotic, with constant social upheaval. As my friend would say "Ju want to live in Spain? The Spanish, they're crazy man."

 

And what would you do in Spain? It would be great to sit on the beach in Tenerife or Malaga for a couple of weeks, but after that you'd probably get bored. Why do you think so many professional sports players go into either business or coaching? Because they need the cash? In some cases, yes. But in many other cases it's because fundamentally we all need something to do, a purpose in life.

 

Wow, and you seem to know little about family medicine. Have you ever shadowed a family doctor? I've met family docs who've done everything from covering ER shifts, to doing methadone clinics, to working for the CMPA, to actually practicing family medicine. And within family medicine there's tons of ways to tailor your practice - you can decide to work in a walk-in clinic in a posh neighbourhood where yes you might see a lot of colds and sore throats, and might end up prescribing antibiotics a lot. But you could also decide to work for a walk-in clinic in an urban big city, where you might see anything from complications due to HIV to gangrenous feet. Or you might decide to set up a family practice where you only accept kids as patients. One family doc I asked as to why they chose family responded that they "always wanted to do pediatrics until they realized their idea of pediatrics was in fact family medicine with kids." Or you might decide to only accept older patients, though you're right, in that case you might be prescribing cardio-aspirin to help prevent MIs. Of course you'd also have to be deciding how to balance beta-blockers, ACE inhibitors, statins, calcium channel blockers in there as well.

 

Or you could go for the real adventure: Rural family medicine. In many cases, there's (essentially) no specialists - just you, your patient, and whatever health problems may arise. So far, many of the keenest 4th year med students I know who've loved medicine itself have chosen to specialize in rural family.

 

As to respect. Yeah, there is an element of that to medicine. But unfortunately with doctors not able to spend as much time with patients, that element of the profession is fading. I interviewed a patient today who went off for about an hour about how incompetent he thought the doctors who were taking care of him were. And like money, respect ain't going to get you nowhere if you hate what you do 8 to 6.

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yes, I agree with your comment UWO Med 2.

Family meds is more just interviewing patient, prescribing drugs and out the door. You can do ER shift, Ob/Gyn option, etc. Especially with elderly population, there is always the risk of polypharmacy, dealing with drugs interaction and titrating the appropriate dose for maximising the therapeutic index. Also, they are the gate keeper for inappropriate request for specialist. If being respected is on your top 3 lists for being a MD, that's sad, why don't you be a cop or firefighter, they get lots of respect these days! Also, if all you understand about dentistry is cleaning teeth and filling cavity, then you need to do some more research.

You can work in trauma centre, research biomaterial, affect public health policies. I found it rewarding because I can work with my hand while affecting changes on others personal lifestyle, also I like dealing with reconstruction (oral and maxillofacial Surg), it gives me a sense of accomplishment. These might be diff. for others.

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Guest toothy

A major difference is that no dental procedures are covered by basic government health insurance. Most companies have their own plans but it's usually not full coverage. As a result dentists have to "sell" unlike the regular MD whose cases come to them. I would think that going to the dentist fits into a slot somewhere between manicure and plastic surgery. Most folks just come once a year for a cleaning, which might not even warrant the dentist to do it himself.

 

So, meds rejects can appreciate that dentistry is similar because they will still be prescribing, suturing and diagnosing, but there are the other three aspects of business, business, business. :)

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Guest UWOMED2005

But even some/most medical practices are businesses as well. With the current shortage, we may not have to advertise as much, but we still have to worry about keeping overhead low, etc.

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I think that money is a big factor in Canada and the US when choosing a career. In third world countries, doctors don't make nearly as much (sometimes they make peanuts) and still there are huge amounts of poeple applying to get into medicine. If I won the lottery or suddenly developed some kind of a talent I would still practice medicine, perhaps part time. I think I will really like my future career. Help people, being surrounded by smart colleages, challenging field, life-long learning, what is not to like?

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Guest Hollenback

I think dentists do a lot more than dental technicians... working with your hands is only one part of the job. You forget that dentists sometimes see their patients more regularly than physicians--- and are frequently able to diagnose behavioural disorders, or developing diseases. I don't care what you do... but saving someone's life definitely warrants some respect. I apologize if this point of view seems a little 'dent-o-centric' but all biases aside, I still would think the same way.>:

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Guest MACFORME

Oh boy.. I am really sorry about the message that I am about to write. I am normally much more civil than this, but here it goes..

 

"just want to vent...if there is anything that i despise, it's people who apply to dental school as back up for med school." - LestatZinnie

 

Lets stop judging people LestatZinnie. Guess what? I got into Toronto Dents. And if I get into McMaster Medicine (for which I already interviewed), I will pick it over Toronto Dents. There is nothing wrong with that. Dentistry IS my backup plan. This does not mean, however, that I look down upon Dentistry.

 

People do degrees in Engineering and Computer Science, and even do their MBAs and then apply to dental school and medical school. Does that mean that they are doing something wrong just for having a backup? Who doesn't want security in this crazy world? For God's sake, every med school interview I went to they asked me "what if you dont get into med school now, or ever, what is your backup?" Its always smart to have a backup. To think you can get everything you want is immature.

 

 

"imo these are two very different kind of profession and one should not go into it unless the passion and dedication is there." - LestatZinnie

 

Again, this is what YOU feel. its YOUR opinion. I think the two are VERY SIMILAR. You help cure and make people feel better. You interact with people regularly. You can get involved with RESEARCH. You are part of a SECURE profession. How is Plastic Surgery different from Dentistry? How is Oral Surgery different from General Surgery? I think we should be careful before we make swinging comments on this page.

 

I prefer medicine over dentistry not because its better, but because it will allow me to keep my scope more broad I find dentistry limiting for MYSELF (others might not feel this way, and thats cool).

 

"there is one guy on studentdoctor.net who is obvious bitter as he is going to dent school rather than med because of his 'health problems'. he then proceeds to belittle all the dentists and extolling the virtues of being doctors. my question would be, why bother going to dent then??" - LestatZinnie

 

I dont agree with the behaviour of that person. I totally agree with you LestatZinnie.

 

Anyhow.. if I get into medicine, all you waitlisters should be happy, cos one more spot for you ;) .

 

Mac-For-Me (Yes, Mac MD).

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I could not agree with you more Macforme :) My back up plan was nursing. I have heard all kinds of things: how could you do that with the shortage? you took somebody else spot, if you did not want to stay in nursing why did you register. The point is that most people in medicine are smart (same for dents by the way) and that they leave some field in which they would probably make a significant contribution to be a doc. However, we are allowed to be realistic, even if you are a perfect candidate, you are still not guaranteed acceptance. Yet we all have to live and eat and move on in case things don't work out. The question for people is, what if you don't get into meds, are you allowed a back up plan, what is an appropriate back up plan or do you immediately say goodbye to this cruel world?:P

 

However, I do agree that if you really dislike your back up plan, then you should not do it. You'd make yourself miserable and the other people that have to work with you. I discovered that nursing was not for me when I was in the program and I was not going to stay if I did not get into meds.

 

I think medicine and dentistry have many things in common and I can see how it could be a career that could attract the same people. You help people, you are in a challenging a competitive field, you can have your own business, you can diagnose, you can treat, .....

:D

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