Guest mdhopeful23 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 hello, i've been trying to decide whether to start looking for a second job, but im worried about having extra income and how it will effect my osap application. is there a way to estimate how much you are eligable under osap? i filled out the online application, but there was no summary estimate of how much i would get... i guess what im trying to is figure out if i will eligable for osap at all...ive been working the last year and i have a car...does is look bad for me? i figure if im not getting any osap, then i should definitley get another job, makes some more $$...ah, what to do...what to do... i know it'll be awhile until i hear from any med schools, but ive already heard from my 'plan b' so i know i'll definitley be back in school come september thanks in advance for any advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest byjude Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 The car could be problematic if it's registered in your own name (if it's under your parents name, or, say, a sibling, then that works) since you'd have to declare it as an asset and list its approximate value. Theoretically, OSAP calculates the value of the car into the value of the money you currently have, assuming that no student should have to have a car if they can't afford tuition. Some of the urban planning in certain Canadian regions begs to differ, and by the time you're a clerk at some schools (UWO) you will apparently be in definite need of a car, but I doubt OSAP recognizes that. Extra income will definitely decrease the amount of money OSAP gives you. It all depends on how much your parents make - if it's been less than 5 years since you were last in high school - how much you have saved up, how much your tuition is, what city you live in, whether you live at home, and how much you expect to earn i) this summer and ii) next school year (including bursaries/scholarships). I think that the max for undergrad/grad students with no kids is $9000; I'm not sure if they give more for med school. But if you get into medicine, there's also the giant bank loans you can qualify for (up to $125K) - the downside is that you have to pay interest from the second you take the money, but the plus is that the interest rate is at least 1-2% lower than the rate you'll start paying on OSAP once you hit residency. Whether or not to get another job depends on personal factors - whether you're getting the job for the summer or during the school year (and if this will affect your studies), how much stress working an extra job will give, what you could be doing instead with the extra time, whether you'd learn anything interesting from the second job, etc. If you're just worried about being able to pay for med school, then you shouldn't worry - there are bank loans, and often school bursaries or loans and other sources to find the money - if you don't mind racking up a debt and paying some interest. If you want to have less debt and need more income for your plan b, and can handle a second job, it may be worth looking into, but it will definitely cut into your OSAP entitlement, so if you're like me, and justify that having more time today is worth more than the cost of interest on a loan, then you may appreciate just keeping the single job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Hi there, i filled out the online application, but there was no summary estimate of how much i would get... Once you complete the application and press "submit", it will generally generate an estimate for you, and display it on the screen. Further, if you submitted your application more than 48 hours ago, then you should be able to check the "status" area of the OSAP page to determine the amount that you received. In all, you should have the information you're looking for no later by the end of this week. In the interim though, if you're worried about particular aspects of your application and financial planning, it might be an idea to grab an appointment with a person at your university's Financial Assistance and Awards Office. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Hi again, I think that the max for undergrad/grad students with no kids is $9000; I'm not sure if they give more for med school. The maximum is $14,000 for graduate students. I'm not sure if the same applies to undergraduate students. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mdhopeful23 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 wow, thanks for the quick replies... well, ive been doing some budgeting lately, and the interest i would pay on a bank loan seriously scares me. i'd prefer to get as much osap as i can, pay some myself, and go the bank for the rest...plus, id also be eligable for a bursary if i get osap.... yes, i think having a car will hurt my application. i just bought it in jan, ill say its worth about $20,000. mind you, i've still got a nice car loan to pay off! interesting how there's no little box in the osap application for that...i could put in my parents name, maybe that would be best. would i have to do that for the four years of school tho? hmm...i'm not sure about that. kirsteen, thanks for the 'submit' tip. but now i'm thinking about leaving my car off the application, so i don't want to submit my application yet if i end up changing it! by clicking submit, does that mean i am being assessed and cleared for a loan? i'm kinda scared to press that button now as for the second job, its not a problem for me. ive been out of school the last year (hence working) and i wouldn't mind more 'busy work'....keeps my mind off med school...:rolleyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fox Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Just to put things in perspective for you, I worked for seven months full-time (I finished grad school in January) and have a new car (honda civic) and I got a whopping $705 from OSAP this year. I, too, have a loan on my car, but that didn't matter. If you can put your car in someone else's name, I would do it now. If not, this year you may not get much, but you get used to paying the hefty interest on the LOC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Hi there, kirsteen, thanks for the 'submit' tip. but now i'm thinking about leaving my car off the application, so i don't want to submit my application yet if i end up changing it! by clicking submit, does that mean i am being assessed and cleared for a loan? If the car is in your name, then whether or not you include it in the application, the OSAP folks will know. They include in your assessment any automobiles linked to your name via your driver's license number--and there are all sorts of ways that they can cross-reference records to find that piece of information if you don't include it in your OSAP form. :rolleyes Yes, when you hit, "submit", your application enters the assessment process. However, the information that you include in the application is not unchangeable. That is, if your situation evolves prior to the OSAP monies being sent out, then you can send your new information to your university's Financial Aid Office and they will implement the changes for you. By the way, as byjude noted, the car will impact your application. I had this happen to me a couple of years back--my OSAP application took a nice hit because of an incorrectly-attributed auto. However, I was able to provide proof that the car was not mine and all became well. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Hi there fox, and I got a whopping $705 from OSAP this year. I, too, have a loan on my car, but that didn't matter Could it have something to do with the fact that you're attending a school outside of Ontario? :rolleyes For some reason, I thought that you would receive the full benefit of OSAP only if you are attending school in Ontario, else you had to apply to other provincial loan programs. Am I completely up a gum tree here? Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mdhopeful23 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 well, i think i better wait on my osap application for now...it could get complicated if i decide to change the ownership of my car...which, from fox's post, is what i will have to do to see a dime from osap kirsteen, i was reading one of your posts from ages ago mentioning a couple summer job opps. you mentioned something about 'junior epidemiologists' positions. having some background in epi, i am intrigued, yet unsure what exactly you were referring to... thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Hi there, Last year, myself and one of my MSc Epi. program colleagues managed to land a couple of decent jobs working as Junior Epidemiologists in one of the regional SARS teams (it would be nice to still be paid $34/hr to clean data ). It was a pretty popular time to have epidemiology training since seemingly all of the regional health groups were looking to bolster their Epi. teams in order to collect SARS-related data and help provide fodder for the reports delivered by the local health authorities. The activity has probably quietened down a little now given that the SARS epidemic has been thankfully controlled, but I know that they were interested in extending some of the positions given the upcoming West Nile season, etc. If you're interested in this type of employment, my advice would be to contact the public health health authorities in your region. They should be able to tell you fairly quickly if they foresee some epi-related openings. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fox Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 I don't think it had anything to do with where I was going to school... We still paid $8500 in tuition this year. I think it was more because I worked last year and have a car. I couldn't apply for AB student loans even though I have lived here for four years because the entire time I was here I was a student. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Having a car registered under your name counts as an asset, so if you can get rid of it somehow, it may profoundly increase your chances of getting student loans. Nevermind the fact that a car might be very necessary to your education, particularly if it takes place in multiple parts of the city at extremely early/late hours of the day (particularly in your clerkship years); to the student loan guys, if you have the money to afford and keep a car, you don't need student loans that badly. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tweep0 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 A follow-up question... Can we transfer assets (a car, or money from our bank accounts / stocks / GIC) to our parents and get away scott free? Does the government (OSAP) have access to information regarding our 'previous' assets (i.e. before we transfered them)? Thanks Tweep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest byjude Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 When you sign the OSAP agreement, you give them the right to access information on all of your financial accounts. So unless you've got some Cayman Islands or Swiss bank account, I believe they have the ability to check on this. That said, they make their assessment on the assets you have as of May 1. Money from your bank account can be easily justified to be rid of - who knows how much money you spend from now until May. But assets like stocks or GICs are trickier. You could officially sell them - to your parents or to another buyer, but then you would have to report that income on your taxes (I think?) - so it would still count as income. If you are in the position to buy a car - especially if you're sharing the cost with your parents, you should really get your car registered in the name of your parents - since, essentially, it would be their car that they are letting you borrow, and not a financial asset on your part. However, if you've already bought the car, I don't think it would be worth the trouble of re-registering it in your parents' name, since you're effectively selling it to them (regardless of how many payments need to be made), so it could be seen as a source of income, not to mention, a shady business dealing that may wisen them up to a need for further auditing. Regarding cars, if you somehow possess the financial ability to buy a car (let alone, a new car, let alone pay for insurance and gas++) then I don't think it's unfair of the government to question why you should feel you are in need of educational loans. Granted, there are some schools where having cars are near-necessities - especially if you commute, or have to travel for clerkship. However, there's no reason in the eyes of tight-wallet OSAP why you would need to buy a new car. However, I have to say, ironic or not, all of the people I've met who qualified for more OSAP than me always seemed to be able to buy cars. Not sure how that works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macdaddyeh Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Interesting story to share: When both my daughters were "caught by midwives" (equivalent of saying "delivered by a physician"), I recall having a discussion with many a midwife about the fact that they have to be so mobile and carry all their equipment etc. all over town if their clients plan to have a homebirth, like we did. That being said, many midwives with whom I spoke, said that actually owning (or at least having access to) a vehicle was a MANDATORY part of their training. I found this to be very interesting because it was mandated and I imagine that midwifery students are no exception to needing OSAP. I mention this because I remember one midwife telling me that she didn't want a car, but she HAD TO, and that there was some kind of osap clause for midwifery students owning vehicles because of the nature of the program. Perhaps the same kind of thing does apply for OSAP wrt med students? Mind you, med students don't usually lug around tonnes of equipment like I know midwives legally must while attending a homebirth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mdhopeful23 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 depending on where you live, you can tranfer a car between family members as a 'gift'. its a simple transfer of ownership and you don't pay taxes because there was no 'sale'. here's my beef with osap. i worked...i then put down a good chunk of the money i made on a car...and i now have a nice loan to pay for the rest. however, in 'osap math', they will add up what i've made, what the car is worth, and nevermind what i still owe. basically, it comes out being over double what i actually own/ am worth :eek sigh, i now regret buying my beatiful car...but i don't think being able to pay for a car should 'disqualify' me from getting osap. ive thought about selling it, but then i would probably need a vehicle again by my third year! argh...why did i think budgeting would get my mind off waiting for med school letters...what a stupid idea >: may 1st? where did that deadline come from? i should really visit a financial aid office about all of this....:rolleyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hi there, that there was some kind of osap clause for midwifery students owning vehicles because of the nature of the program This is quite possible. The universities inform OSAP re: the expenses related to each program, hence the need to specify your program when you apply to OSAP. Presumably, the midwifery school informed OSAP that the expense of a car was required for the program. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TimmyMax Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hey, UWO will give students a letter directed to OSAP basically saying that a car is mandatory (which is basically is- I can't imagine survival without mine) to submit along with their application in hopes of getting OSAP to waive their car assessment policy in determining how much OSAP a student gets. Not sure how well it works, but it is available to our medical students with financial need. Best of luck! Timmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 A car will REALLY hurt you...even though it is *required* at UWO. OSAP makes you declare the value of any car that you own or lease...they don't care how much you owe on it. You are allowed to have a car valued up to $5000 without it impacting on your OSAP funding.... UWO will give you a letter to submit saying that a car is mandatory for your program which will increase the allowable value up to $10 000. However, anything greater comes directly, dollar for dollar, off of your OSAP. So, if you would have been entitiled to $11 000 OSAP (the max for 1st and 2nd year students) and you have a car worth $20 000, OSAP will write off the first $10 000 as an allowable expense (after you submit the letter from UWO) and the remaining $10 000 value will be seen as an 'asset'. They will subtract this 'asset' from your OSAP. So, you will only receive $1000 in OSAP. Sucks. but that's the system. Get rid of the car!!! (if only into somebody else's name...your sibling, parents, grandparents, significant other, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DonaldKaufman Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hi, Do stocks and mutual funds work against you the same way as a car? I'm not too worried about my car being valued at greater than $5000 (in fact, being 14 years old, having 260000km, and the fact that I can perforate parts of it with my finger makes me wonder if it is worth $500). However, I've got a bunch of stocks/mutual funds that have been contributed to by my family since I was a youngter. If they are worth $11000, and I would have been eligible for $11000 OSAP, does that mean I'd likely get $0 from OSAP? Can I get around this somehow, like giving them to my parents as a gift ("Hey dad, here's a few Gs for Father's Day")? I don't want to use them to pay for school, because when I sell them I'll have to pay capital gains taxes on them, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hi there, Yes, securities held outside of an RRSP would be deemed assets by OSAP; however, whether or not they can see them when they assess your file is another factor. Given that Revenue Canada can access your bank information (via your social insurance number) I'm sure OSAP could, too. One simple and easy way to rid yourself of the "burden" of these securities is to transfer them into an RRSP. This automatically shelters the securities from being included in the OSAP assessment. (You still have to declare them, but OSAP will not penalize you for having good RRSP habits. ) Transferring them into an RRSP is additionally beneficial if you've pulled in a decent income this year, or plan to within the next seven years. You can use your RRSP contribution this year to reduce your taxable income, or you can carry the amount forward to reduce your taxable income within the next seven years. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mdhopeful23 Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 well, i went to the financial aid office today and got some frank advice about my situation....this may be of help to other people facing a similar situation... first off, they really only count the income, assests etc, after the first week of may. they are looking at the 16 weeks prior to school beginning. so if you have any assets, get rid of them now! i was a little confused about this, because on my osap application, they were asking for the amount i made during my 'prestudy' and 'prior to prestudy' periods. (ie. jan-sept 2004). but they'll only actually count the prestudy period..phew. on to the car. well, as a couple people mentioned, med schools will allow an additional $5000 towards the osap allowance of $5000...this means if your car is worth $10,000 or less, it wont be counted. my car is worth more, and they will consider the extended amount as 'income'. and they will not consider the loan remaining on the car either. another consideration is that to be eligable for bursary's, most likely you will need to meet osap eligability. so it really looks like its in my best interest to get some osap. so im now making plans to move the car into my dads name. its a bit of a pain, changing ownership, getting a safety done, changing insurance...but its going to be worth it to get some sweet, sweet osap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hi there, another consideration is that to be eligable for bursary's, most likely you will need to meet osap eligability. so it really looks like its in my best interest to get some osap. Yep. OSAP eligibility status can be especially beneficial if you are a student at UofT. UofT and its programs have some terrific bursaries and awards, many of which become automatic opportunities for any students having OSAP eligibility status. ...and unlike OSAP loans, bursaries and awards generally demand a nice thank you note, not eventual monetary repayment. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tweep0 Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hi, I also have stocks that I want to get rid of by the May deadline. I have not looked into transferring ownership. I was initially thinking just selling the stocks and then getting my dad to buy the same amount under his name. If i did sell them, i would have made a net $0.00 profit. However, how would revedue canada / OSAP know that profit is 0? I never mentioned previously that I purchased stocks on a tax return. I also read Kirsteen's post about RRSP's, but i'm not that knowledgeable about RRSPs so it seems a little scary. Are there any other options for me? Thanks Tweep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hi there Tweep, To answer your first question, it's amazing what Revenue Canada can determine. I sold some securities (common stocks) a few years ago, and although I took a net hit, i.e., didn't have any capital gains to declare, Revenue Canada knew that I'd sold the stocks (they are alerted of all such sales), and I had to prove that I took a capital loss as opposed to a gain. That is, I had to go back and find the book value of my stocks (the original purchase price) from my bank, and provide that documentation to the Revenue Canada folks. It was a bit of a bureaucratic pain to manage. RRSPs may sound scary, but they're neat little vehicles if you have some money that you'd like to store away for later use, retirement or otherwise. In fact, that reminds me of a great, not-often-mentioned-by-banks, RRSP option that is available to students that could definitely benefit you--the Lifelong Learning Plan. If you have money in your RRSP, you are allowed to withdraw an amount to help finance your education. Now, normally when you withdraw money from your RRSP you are immediately taxed on it, i.e., ~25% of your intended withdrawal is automatically withheld from you for tax purposes (they'll give it back to you if your annual income hasn't been high). However, under the Lifelong Learning Plan (LLP), you are able to withdraw a lifetime maximum of $20,000 ($10,000 per year, maximum) to help finance your education. When you withdraw the funds from your RRSP under this program, the government witholds nothing, i.e., you can get a hold of all of the funds that you'd like to withdraw (up to the $20,000 max.). I discovered the LLP a few years back and used it to help finance my MBA, when I was at Queen's. Now, I am required to pay a minimum amount back into my RRSP each year, to replace the funds that I originally "borrowed" from myself. Here is the website that tells you a little more about the plan. The LLP would be a great option for you as: 1) it's very simple and quick to establish an RRSP account--any bank would be happy to set up an account for you; 2) you can transfer all of your stocks into the account thereby shielding them from inclusion in your OSAP assessment; 3) if the value of the securities increases in the next little while then you can sell them without incurring any taxable capital gains (which you would do if they appreciated in value exterior to an RRSP); 4) you can call upon any cash that you have in your RRSP to help finance your education; 5) you avoid the headaches of selling your securities, reporting the sale to Revenue Canada and having your family re-purchase them for you. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.