Guest iamnuts Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 Why? Start making money after only 2 years of residency sound pretty good. Also, lots of loan forgive program if you go rurual. Don't rural family med docs make more money too? Overall, i thought the gap between family docs and specialists' salaries is MUCH less than that in the US. So why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aneliz Posted April 15, 2003 Report Share Posted April 15, 2003 There was a discussion of this not too long ago in the med student forum... Check it out here: pub125.ezboard.com/fpreme...=221.topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j282 Posted April 16, 2003 Report Share Posted April 16, 2003 Med students are in it for the $$$. Sure nobody wants to hear about money grubbing doctors but my observations with my fellow med students only leads me to that conclusion. Despite the "politically correct" answers (or I should say lies) that med students will spew about this reason or that reason about not going into family medicine, the voting is done by their Carms applications. The highest paying specialities are always the most in demand. When Rads paid less (in the 80's) applications were down, now applications are sky high, curiously at a time when Rads pays the most. Look at Derm, surely the attraction to the field is not because derm is involved in cutting edge, challenging frontline medicine. So the solution; increase the billing schedules for Family docs and you will catch the attention of many of those dollar chasing med students. Oh right and the hours are horrendous, yes they are but only based on the $$ paid. Remember Invasive cardiologists have brutal hours but there is a huge demand for residencies in this area because the cash compensation justifies the time spent in the wards. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted April 16, 2003 Report Share Posted April 16, 2003 You have a point (a lot of the most competitive fields are lucrative,) but if money is the only/main thing med students care about. . . Why is Pediatrics (low paying, poor lifestyle) consistently one of the toughest things to match to? Why is rural medicine (one of the more lucrative fields) always relatively easy to match to? Why are lab medicine and pathology usually easy to match to? Good pay, especially considering as an employee you get a great benefits package including pension, and great lifestyle. Yet not many people seem to want Path! You do have somewhat of a point - I too know med students who are BSing when they say $$ means nothing. But it's definitely not the only factor, and to say ALL med students have $$ as priority #1 is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RockyRoad1977 Posted April 17, 2003 Report Share Posted April 17, 2003 Hi there, from my point of view, Family Meds has lost a lot of popularity not only because of monetary reasons but also due to its perceived "social status" in the hierarchy of medicine for many students. Being a profession that is highly, if not the most, competitive to get into...it is often the "cream of the crop" who get into medicine. Many individuals are used to excelling in whatever they did prior to medical school. I believe that this is why they want to specialize and be the best at something they enjoy..whether it's plastic surgery or pediatrics. Many of my classmates who are considering family meds are those who value a very good lifestyle or who are a little older and want to graduate a little sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macdaddyeh Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 J282: I am NOT going into medicine AT ALL for the money! The hours, the demands, the fear of litigation proceedings etc. are awful! Why would I choose that all for the decent (but not stellar) salary that most doctors make. I am an aspiring physician partly for the challenge, partly for the status, partly for altruistic reasons and also a way to exercise the talents that God has bestowed upon each one of us (Happy Easter everybody, as well). I take issue with the notion that J282 is going into meds primarily for the cash. If that's true, get out now! I also imagine that you likely attend (or will be attending) a med school that breeds that type of hype and mentality (no names to publish here). That said however, I admire your honesty if cash is the clinger for you. Moreover, if I was going into meds for the money, there are dozens if not hundreds of other lucrative careers besides medicine where the money comes easier and flows faster (ie. banking, investement, I.T., etc.). My brother is a mechanical engineer and is a multi-millionaire many times over because of his unnamed business success. However, he also never sleeps, is constantly stressed and works obscence hours. In another example, a buddy of mine is also the head OT at a US spinal cord injury clinic and makes $60K (US$$) with no long hours, no lawsuits, no hospital politics, etc. Do you see what I'm getting at? ONE MUST REALLY INTROSPECTIVELY EXAMINE ONE'S MOTIVATION FOR ENTERING MEDICINE (myself included)..especially with all the drawbacks...and let's face it, the drawbacks are incredibly high if one only thinks in financial terms. I have a friend in internal medicine and she doesn't have one good word to say about medicine--she hates doctors (and she is one), she hates hospital politics, she hates her pay, she compains about the erratic working schedule, the specialist hierarchy, etc. In fact, she attempted to sway me to REJECT medicine as a career! What ever happened to people saying they wanted to put a smile on a kids face? Or deliver non-partisan health care to wartorn regions like MSF does? Or hold a little old lady's hand while she dies? Let's take off those cash-riddled spectacles, shall we? There is no price on intervening in people's lives for the betterment of their health! Take care, M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 Hi there, Just playing devil's advocate a bit: many fully-qualified doctors sleep little, are stressed and work obscene hours (not all). To boot, most folks going through medical school (at least the clerkship phase) and then on to complete a residency, may share some of these experiences. Additionally, yes there are career options where individuals may nicely plump up their bank accounts, however, none of these options are generally easy options. If they were, many more folks would pursue them. Generally, if you show me each career (excluding the quick-cash "career" of lottery playing ) where you grab a rake and pull in the dough, I'll show you some quality that's unusual: extreme intelligence, guile, talent, hard work, tolerance for illegal activity or perhaps, for those ultra-high-income positions, a combination of the lot. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j282 Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 Hi Macdaddyeh: I would like to invite you to read my post again to understand that it is not I who has gone into this profession for the money but rather a hell of a lot of my me school classmates based on my observations. Please (for the safety of your patients) develop you reading comprehension skills or else in the moderate chance you may wind up in med school, you may find yourself overlooking written details such as patient symptomology, pharmacology cross reactions etc.......not cool :| My point was directed towards the question of why so many do not enter into family medicine, a great number of students are walk about the halls of med school with dollar signs in their eyes. I cannot tell you the number of times I hear things about all the cars these students plan on buying, how they will retire at 40, the size of their future houses. It often feels i'm in a room of self consumed young yuppies talking about palm pilots and how cool it will look to have one strapped on while on the way to the BMW in the hospital parking lot. Rarely do I see people displaying a truly caring, compassionate side, but I guess their "performances" during the interviews exhausted all ability to carry on the "acting" compassionately. One of my professors made an interesting comment regarding the CaRms match while shaking his head in disappointment. He said the process is very hollywood where the term "SHOW ME THE MONEY" directs the demand for specialties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 Retire by 40. . . hahah. That's funny. Try hopefully finished residencies/fellowships and about break-even with your friends who didn't do medicine by 40 (totally depending on the specialty, I'll admit.) In fact, there's a rather significant number of docs who end up practicing past 65 because they maintained a lavish lifestyle while massively in debt, without making enough RRSP contributions, forgetting they wouldn't have a pension. But I must admit that what j282 reports, while a tad overtated and lacking a wee bit of tact, isn't totally uncommon among med students. I was shocked to see what some of them spend on vacations, Palm pilots, and cars already, and that's while we aren't being paid but rather shelling out $$. And many of the more competitive specialties are the ones that can generate great renumeration. But to say that is everyone in a class are entirely driven by money is overstating it BY FAR. J282, I don't care what school you are at but at least some of the students must going for pediatrics, or geriatrics, or family. Maybe you haven't been listening to them - verbal miscommunication with people can be just as deadly as written miscommunication. . . also not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest j282 Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 Good points UWOMEDS2005: I fully realize that this is not representative of the entire class, I mentioned in my post that a surprisingly high portion of the class displayed this kind of behavior. Of course there are people going into Family meds, I for one am very interested in family or possibly rural It's interesting because those that are "in it" for the money are in for a big shock. Billing rates have remained fairly constant over several years while the price of leasing office space, medical instruments, receptionist salaries have increased by as much as 35% in the last 8 years. If the trend continues, anyone can project the foreseeable squeeze in income. This coupled with all the changes in health care (i.e. Fee for service, any other future policies the broke provincial gov't can introduce to ease the financial strain on the socialized system), will likely mean an extinction of any "sky-high" salaries (outside of OHIP exempt specialties i.e. plastics). Another excellent point you made UWOMEDS2005, is the fact that by 40, a med student should consider themselves lucky if you they have paid off their student loans AND practice start-up costs which often can be in the 150-300K range on top of the student loans. Its strange that such smart people can make some financially idiotic statements, but that's why one really needs to get into this business for the right reasons or they will be in for a shocker :eek Take care folks J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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