Undergraduate degree in Engineering?

[seeker]

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[Kiel]

Many people say that if you love what you study, you will excel. Med schools have no preference to what kind of degree you have as long as you have the pre-reqs. Also, a competetive GPa is necessary in to have them look at your application further.

[Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

I know of at least 3 engineers within the field that you're considering who are now either doctors or who are within medical school. There are many more engineers within other fields in medicine, too. That being said, the above advice is good--try to choose a field that will interest you as opposed to one that you hope might impress the right folks. Certainly though, if you end up finishing a degree in this field it shouldn't be an impedance to medical school entry.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[a41]

Hey Seeker,

 

I am in my 4th year of an engineering program. Personally for me, it was a good choice. I haven't taken any biomedical engineering courses but I managed to work 2 summers under a prof who does biomedical research. This eventually led me to work with a prof in the faculty of medicine at my school for my 4th year thesis project. This is valuable experience for me since I'm interested more in the academic side of medicine. Because of my engineering experience/know-how, I'm not so much working with for my prof as I am working with him.

 

That being said, I wish I chose an easier program. Prereqs were very hard to come by, and because of that I was limited in the number of schools I could apply to.

 

In the end it really doesn't matter what major you choose. I know a lot of people who have gone in to med school after engineering (civil, electrical, eng phys, chem eng etc) including my family doctor. There are also a lot of people who have gone through more traditional routes. The biggest factor is if would you be interested in working as a Biosystems engineer (whatever that is) if you don't get into med school.

[HaliEngineer]

I'm an Engineer, and know of 2 other engineers in the first year class at Dal. I agree with a statement above - do something that you enjoy. If you don't enjoy it, the 4 years will be really long (and Engineering becomes more difficult the less you enjoy it, in my opinion)

 

The argument for engineering is that it teaches you a methodology for problem solving, that you aren't necessarilty exposed to in non-applied science fields. Problem solving is very important in medicine!

 

Last, if at some point in the next few years you decide that medicine isn't for you, you'll have a strong academic background, a professional degree, and will be quite employable coming out of your undergraduate degree.

 

A drawback is the lack of freedom in your schedule. (I can only comment on my experience, but..) Most disciplines have lots of "required" courses, and this leaves you little room to pick courses up (i.e. Biology with Lab, Organic with Lab) depending on the program you choose. I did my undergrad in Chemical engineering, so that got the Organic chem requirement out of the way, but students in programs like Mechanical, Civil, or Electrical would have to do that outside of their program, and for most of those, wouldn't get any academic benefit (i.e. wouldn't receive credit towards their degree requirements.) There are, however, engineers from all of these disciplines that go on to become great doctors. Aspects from all of the engineering disciplines come into play in the world of medicine, from stress/strain curves to simple electric currents, it's all there, and the first principles are all the same.

 

Engineering is a great field to get into, and you'll enjoy it. Smaller classes, more applied problems, and teamwork (Rather than competitiveness) are themes that I noted in my experience, and they all help contribute to your education.

 

Good Luck!

[Smurfette]

I'm not in engineering, but my impression is that many engineering programs are not as flexible in the courses you can take. Therefore, you might have a difficult time fitting in the pre-req's for med school (org chem, biol, etc.). Maybe some of your biosystem engineering courses would be fine for those prereq's. I don't know. Look carefully at the timetable of the schools and programs you're interested to make sure it'll work out. Additionally, many engineering programs have quite heavy courseloads compared to other programs. In order to maintain your GPA, you might find that you have to compromise your volunteer or extracurricular time. However, as many people have said, you need to do what interests you. And engineering is a great backup program if you don't get into medicine (or if you decide you no longer want to pursue medicine).

[DoNair]

My roommate here in med school (in the USA) did a B.S. in Biomedical Engineering and she is now in the MD/PhD program. She is doing quite well in medicine as well so it is definately possible. It all depends on you and if medicine truly interests you. If so you can definately do it.

[seeker]

..........

[JewelLeigh]

I am in my third year of medical school at Dal and I did a degree in Mechanical Engineering. As has already been said, there are both pros and cons to doing engineering as a "premed" degree.

 

Pros:

-professional degree that teaches you to apply scientific theory and evidence to solve 'real-world' problems (sound similar to medicine or what)?

-well-respected as a challenging program, so if you get great marks, people will have no doubt as to both your intelligence and work-ethic

-FUN! In my experience, Engineering faculties country-wide are some of the closest with many social programs and great spirit

-while there are more and more engineers applying to medicine...it still is not the norm - therefore you'll be a somewhat unique applicant with a different perspective on things

 

Cons:

-very busy schedule with minimal flexibility - this may potentially hinder your ability to complete med school pre-req courses AND your ability to participate in volunteering and extra-curricular activities that are pretty much necessary for a successful medical application in Canada these days

-tough courses in which memorization alone cannot get you through - In my opinion, it is absolutely essential that if someone hopes to attain top grades in engineering that you have to be a mathematically-inclined person. If you struggled with physics or calculus during high school, it is only going to get tougher in engineering.

-you often have to explain during an interview "why the switch" from engineering to medicine - not necessarily a 'con' but something to keep in mind if you are heading into engineering with the intent of applying to med

 

I don't know what university you are considering that offers the "biosystems engineering" program that you mentioned, so I cannot comment on it's relevance to medicine. Your best bet is to check out the university's website under the engineering faculty where there should be a program description as well as course listings.

 

As a side note, for a premed interesting in pursuing a degree in engineering, a great engineering program to consider is the Engineering and Society program at McMaster University. This is a 5 year program that combines the requirements for a core engineering degree (in any of the major engineering departments - civil, chemical, electrical, etc) with some social responsibility-type courses (eg. engineering for sustainability) as well as time for electives geared toward the specific interests of the student. These electives often are enough to constitue an official minor for the students. For example, you could do a degree in Chemical Engineering and Society with a minor in biology. This would likely help you meet all of the med school pre-reqs while getting a full engineering degree.

 

Anyway, much luck with your decisions

JL

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[seeker]

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[EMD]

Quite the crowd of engineering students. I did mech eng and I have absolutely no regrets about it, but I'm not sure I'd have chosen the route if I knew from the beginning I was going to go for medicine.

 

To add to JewelLeigh...

Pros:

-you don't have to deal with PMS (pre-medicine syndrome) so much.

-most docs have some respect for engineers/engineering students-- even if it is grudging.

-if you make it in you have a skill set that allows you to make unique contributions.

-a good back-up.

 

Cons (for med school):

-it may be hard to switch from a program where you have understand things/think to where you just memorize the sh!t-out of everything.

-GPA may be lower.

 

One of my reasons is that Engineering allows you to solve real-life problems through the application of science. As opposed to Science which is just basically information

That's one of the things I liked about engineering... whereas I'd have phrased the above a bit different. Any case... it reminds me of the old saying... engineers think equations approximate reality... physicists think reality approximates equations and mathematicians can find a connection between the two.

 

Does anyone know the main focus of this program - if it's centralized around agriculture or what?

I'd get in touch with at the faculty-- ask whether they can put you in touch with a student in the program.

 

Also, another concern is that Engineering would probably drop my GPA and that I would not have enough time to participate in a variety of EC activities. Any advice from engineers-doctors about managing their time?

It is easier to get a higher GPA in many other areas-- but I wouldn't say this is a challenge unique only to engineering. As for ECs... I don't think that's a problem if you're disciplined.

 

The numbers... there are about 6-7 people in my class (of 198) that have a background in engineering. I think U of Toronto likes the engineering types.

[JewelLeigh]

Actually...I think Dal likes Engineers a lot too. We have 6 engineers and 1 computer scientist in our class of 93!

[ploughboy]

Actually...I think Dal likes Engineers a lot too. We have 6 engineers and 1 computer scientist in our class of 93!

 

Western loves us too. We have a dozen or so including three who are in UWO's combined BEng/MD program. There are a few CS types floating around as well, including at least one with a masters in CS.

 

pb

[EMD]

Not that I'd encourage any one to go to the US-- I like Canada just fine.... but the American schools seem to like engineers a lot. That said, engineering in the US is a bit different than here (... or was at the time I graduated). Engineering degrees in the US are what Canadians might call "engineering-lite"-- they have lotsa non-technical electives (i.e. it is possible to do the med school prereqs) and are wimpy on the math---- I know this 'cause I know several people that went to the US for grad school (in engineering) & from (engineering) profs that went to grad school in the US (-- engineering grad school in the US is lotsa math... math engineers in Canada typically do in undergrad). Some schools in the US have on the order of 10% engineering grads. Case Western Reserve is one example-- it has has 13% engineers.

[jubaitca]

I am currently a first year Electrical Engineer student, but I still have med school in the back of my mind. What are some things that I should plan to have some sort of chance?

 

Sorry for bieng a NOOB.

[w3rd]

I am currently a first year Electrical Engineer student, but I still have med school in the back of my mind. What are some things that I should plan to have some sort of chance?

 

Sorry for bieng a NOOB.

 

Concentrate on getting good grades, do pre-reqs in summer, and see if u have time to do any EC's, if not then do them during the summer

[cary_fan]

I'm a graduate student in Biomedical Engineering. I did my undergrad at Waterloo in a program called Systems Design Engineering, and I did manage to take a couple of "biomedical" type courses there too. You don't have to, and I didn't do it to impress medical schools (I hadn't even decided to go down that road yet). I found it interesting, and perhaps that's what got the ball rolling in the first place.

 

Just to reiterate what other people have said, the GPA is one of the biggest challenges an engineering student will face. It is definitely the biggest hurdle for me. This is my first year applying, and I think that my low cGPA definitely hurt my chances.

 

The second, as many other people alluded to, is that the prerequisites may be harder to fit in. This really goes for any program; when your electives are limited and must fulfill certain requirements, then you have to do your best to match them up with courses that are likely to be medical school prerequisites: english, organic chemistry, etc.

 

Even with the difficulties I am having with applications (I only have 1 interview), I am really glad I did engineering first. The classic "what is your backup plan" applies here: I can think of many other careers that I think I could find fulfilling if this round goes ill and I call it quits. I also think that engineers-turned-doctors have a skill set that may allow them to better bridge the gap between technology and medicine.

 

In summary, people have done both and done very well. My old university roommate was in computer engineering, and got in at UofT after 3rd year. It's not quite the typical route, and as a result it may not be as straightforward, but nothing in med school is! Non-engineers in medical school have usually taken just as challenging a route to get there, so it doesn't really set you apart from anyone else. Take whatever program feels RIGHT for you - don't pick based on what you think will be easier to get into med school. You might change your mind!

 

For students already in engineering, I do find that having project courses is an advantage we might have over non-engineers. It's a great opportunity to meet people in the medical profession and to try to understand a particular problem, and solve it using some kind of technical solution. It's interesting to talk about, to write about, and it'll help you decide if that's the path you really want to take.

[JimGray]

Thanks for the reply. I know everyone has different motives for making the choosing Engineering over Science. One of my reasons is that Engineering allows you to solve real-life problems through the application of science. As opposed to Science which is just basically information

 

I will be studying at the U of M. I checked their engineering website and they do have an option for admission to medicine through Biosystems Engineering - course layout prepared to ensure that you have all the pre-req courses. Information given on the site is very general. Does anyone know the main focus of this program - if it's centralized around agriculture or what?

 

Also, another concern is that Engineering would probably drop my GPA and that I would not have enough time to participate in a variety of EC activities. Any advice from engineers-doctors about managing their time?

 

you are wrong about science just basically information...it solves problems as well, my friend...

 

but wrt your concern though, although engineering ---> medicine route is certainly possible, realistically speaking, ur reducing your chance of making it to med school by choosing to major in engineering

(c'mon folks...it's the reality. They take 6-7 courses per term and like 5 of them are hard-core courses more often than not...my engineering friend's easiest course this term is C++ programming....isnt that absurd???)

Engineering physics is the WORST though...so if you are looking at biomedical stream, it isnt as rigorous...but only by a difference of the thickness of a sheet of papaer

[The Law]

you are wrong about science just basically information...it solves problems as well, my friend...

 

I second that.

 

I'd go into engineering if you're going to be really good at it.

I would be doing ECs during the school year though, not just during the summer.

[cary_fan]

you are wrong about science just basically information...it solves problems as well, my friend...

 

but wrt your concern though, although engineering ---> medicine route is certainly possible, realistically speaking, ur reducing your chance of making it to med school by choosing to major in engineering

(c'mon folks...it's the reality. They take 6-7 courses per term and like 5 of them are hard-core courses more often than not...my engineering friend's easiest course this term is C++ programming....isnt that absurd???)

Engineering physics is the WORST though...so if you are looking at biomedical stream, it isnt as rigorous...but only by a difference of the thickness of a sheet of papaer

 

C++ programming is easy for some people.

In math/engineering, there are still people getting 90+. Haha, I wasn't one of them. Those folks were truly brilliant.

 

I would have to agree that using engineering as a stepping stone to medicine is definitely not the easiest way to go about it. Med schools don't give you extra points for "degree of difficulty" because that would just open a pandora's box. However, there are lots of people who get in from "hard" programs; and while some people may consider one program or course "easier" than another, it all depends on who is taking the course. I would have more trouble getting an A in english literature than I would in calculus because writing isn't one of my strengths. So take any advice about one program being harder than the next with a grain of salt, and try to get advice from people who actually go through engineering, instead of those that just watch and talk about it I think engineering is great preparation for any career - there just might be some extra hurdles in the way.

[jubaitca]

so...ummm what sort of EC would you guys recommend as first year eng. student?

[a41]

The same ECs as anyone else - whatever you're interested in.

[KennethToronto]

so...ummm what sort of EC would you guys recommend as first year eng. student?

 

drinking and partying

[The Law]

so...ummm what sort of EC would you guys recommend as first year eng. student?

 

Find things that you have fun doing. Partying seems to be a common one.

But seriously, anything you like!

[Kuantum]

so...ummm what sort of EC would you guys recommend as first year eng. student?

 

Honestly...something where you can meet NEW and DIFFERENT people. Student government (if you are into that type of thing) is something I'd recommend.

 

Like others have said, the most important thing though is finding something that you enjoy. So, look around and I'm sure you'll find something. If you don't and there is something that you are interested in - intiate it.