Any truth to the rumour that Queen's Med prefers "white" people?

[Kuantum]

In one of the med. schools in Canada, my sister told me there are only two black people in all of the four classes (med 1 to med 4); and it is counted as 1 full black person, and 2 half black people...lol.

[drcave]

I think the real problem is ageism! I'm 35 and appalled to see that there are only a few people 35 and over in each class in every university across canada!!!! How can such blatant ageist descrimination take place! Check out the stats for yourself and tell me you are not horrified.

[p0tus]

Hey,

 

Your right about the low representation of African Americans in medical schools. In our 2009 class, there isn't a single African American student, and I believe there's only 1 in the class above us.

[Curious P]

Hopefully there aren't too many African *American* students in your class! Heck, us Canadians have a hard enough time as it is getting in. We don't need any Americans taking up our spots!

[p0tus]

Hopefully there aren't too many African *American* students in your class! Heck, us Canadians have a hard enough time as it is getting in. We don't need any Americans taking up our spots!

 

It's the continent I'm referring to, not the country. Since they came from Africa to America, I think the name fits

[sensfan]

i just found out that one person in our class (2010) is actually half-aboriginal! what do you know. this person actually got in under the aboriginal status application, just for anyone out there who still thinks queens med is racist!

[tarzi]

no, it's not true - i just checked out the first year class T10, it is maybe 50% white 50% colored.

[Dingalongdong]

The general impression that Queen's prefers "white" folks cannot be decided by who matriculates. Rather, one must look at who is offered seats. I'll bet that you will find that acceptances are decided based on merit of the applicant and that possibly many minorities may prefer to go to larger cities. This is only an observation but a lot of folks from the larger metropolitan areas of Southern Ontario consider Kingston to be a "one horse town". While I love Kingston, all my Chinese cousins are going elsewhere for their undergrad on account of Kingston's size (or maybe they don't like me, it's hard to say).

 

Remember this is merely an observation. I don't want people getting pissed off over what I just posted.

[temp_degoo]

That's very true, and I think its correct.

[The_B]

i just found out that one person in our class (2010) is actually half-aboriginal! what do you know. this person actually got in under the aboriginal status application, just for anyone out there who still thinks queens med is racist!

 

Haha, why does nobody see that I am an aboriginal as well? Sigh....Anyways, being a minority, I've thought this thread was dumb from the start. I haven't posted on it, because I didn't think it was worth it (but I found this funny, so I had to). Kingston is a little lacking in the cultural diversity, but at Queen's I have never noticed any form of racism. A massive, can't begin to fathom, lack of Tim Hortons, but racism? Naw.

[tarzi]

Haha, why does nobody see that I am an aboriginal as well? Sigh....Anyways, being a minority, I've thought this thread was dumb from the start. I haven't posted on it, because I didn't think it was worth it (but I found this funny, so I had to). Kingston is a little lacking in the cultural diversity, but at Queen's I have never noticed any form of racism. A massive, can't begin to fathom, lack of Tim Hortons, but racism? Naw.

 

I thought Tim Horton's can be found everywhere in Ontario?

[tarzi]

The general impression that Queen's prefers "white" folks cannot be decided by who matriculates. Rather, one must look at who is offered seats. I'll bet that you will find that acceptances are decided based on merit of the applicant and that possibly many minorities may prefer to go to larger cities. This is only an observation but a lot of folks from the larger metropolitan areas of Southern Ontario consider Kingston to be a "one horse town". While I love Kingston, all my Chinese cousins are going elsewhere for their undergrad on account of Kingston's size (or maybe they don't like me, it's hard to say).

 

Remember this is merely an observation. I don't want people getting pissed off over what I just posted.

 

too late, I just got pissed off again

 

Not true - because the ethnic diversity at Queens is the same as the ethnic diversity at U of T's medical school. You will also find that the students come from all over at both schools. It's just that if given the choice - people from Toronto, where there is a lot of colored folks when compared to kingston, would prefer to be able to save money by living at home while going to medical school.

 

I just noticed you said undergrad and not med school - yep, well yeah, again, most students would choose to live at home for undergrad. Anyway, there may be some merit to your observation.

[The_B]

I thought Tim Horton's can be found everywhere in Ontario?

 

I did my undergrad at Western. There were buildings with multiple Tims, I never did a count, but there were easily over 10 on campus. I know of 2 at Queens....I think.

[sensfan]

sorry B, i only found out later that day that you're aboriginal too! maybe if you weren't a dirty leafs fan, we would talk more, and i'd have known that

[Dingalongdong]

too late, I just got pissed off again

 

Not true - because the ethnic diversity at Queens is the same as the ethnic diversity at U of T's medical school. You will also find that the students come from all over at both schools. It's just that if given the choice - people from Toronto, where there is a lot of colored folks when compared to kingston, would prefer to be able to save money by living at home while going to medical school.

 

 

Then I guess the later is true and my Chinese cousins don't like me.

 

D

[JJman]

Firstly, I would like to let everyone know that I am very new to this forum. With that being said, I have really enjoyed this thread in particular. A number of enlightening and valid points have been raised surrounding this issue.

 

I just wanted to contribute a few details that may help to clarify the source of the original poster's concern. On April 22 2006, Louise Brown from the Toronto Star wrote an article titled "Queen’s U. Confronts ‘Culture of Whiteness’". In this article she outlines Queens U's response to a 2004 study written by York University professor Frances Henry (an anti-racism expert). The piece of the article that is most relevant to our discussion is the following:

 

"Queen’s University, one of Canada’s most academically elite schools, admits it has allowed a “culture of whiteness” to take root that fails to welcome visible minority students and professors.

 

And the university vows to be more aggressive in shedding its reputation as a tony enclave of white privilege, says vice-principal Patrick Deane."

 

For reference to the complete article: http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2006/04/queens_u_confro.php

 

I believe the original poster's comment stems from this incident. Nonetheless, I feel the original poster has slightly misconstrued the details. The article does not state that Queens has an active policy where they intentionally discriminate against 'visible minorities' (or whatever term you prefer to use). Rather, it states that Queens has allowed a 'culture of whiteness' to set in that can leave 'visible minorities' feeling isolated and less than welcome ... but not openly discriminated against (Ie. We'll let you in if you are good enough but you may not feel comfortable).

 

Queens U has also openly acknowledged the 2004 Henry document in their campus news paper, check it out if you have the time: http://qnc.queensu.ca/gazette/443d24439246c.pdf

 

This post is not meant to be inflamatory in any, so please don't throw stones at such a new member of the group. I looked through all the posts and noticed that no one made direct reference to this article, so I thought doing so would be useful. I hope you agree. I apologize if someone already has and I missed it.

[tarzi]

Well - perhaps it's due to their "Strong Scottish heritage" as stated in their video. Which is fine, I think that school's are allowed to develop their own "general culture", given that the general population creates it.

 

If the majority of Queens students are white, simply b/c it's in Kingston and Kingston is mostly white PLUS the fact that a lot of colored folks are from the larger cities and CHOOSE to stay there - and then a "culture of whiteness" develops, I don't see how that is racism. It's also unfair to force a school to adopt a multi-culture, when it doesn't create itself. Not everything in our society HAS to be multicultural and a "culture of whiteness" is not necessarily racist.

 

Take it from the opposite perspective - if at a given school, a "culture of minorities" existed, and whites were made to feel isolated, would there be a call to make the school more "white" friendly? No, b/c it seems that cosmopolitanism and multi-culture is RIGHT and everything else is wrong - which is completely ignorant, because ppl with true intelligence understand that there is no such thing as 100% RIGHT and progress comes when everything (even offensive things) is debated and considered.

 

I'm colored btw.

 

Also - just b/c there was one study published by one author - who was obviously already biased before the study even began - doesn't mean it is true. A very liberal and very intelligent friend of mine once told me that - these very left wing groups and professors need to create things that don't exist - otherwise they would be out of a job.

 

At least Queens doesn't have that Phillip Rushton guy - who is considered very racist...at least with his research.

[tarzi]

In response to some of the comments left about the article - if anyone bothers to skim through them: comments are no longer accepted. So here's mine.

 

There are some really racist people in our society!?

 

I completely agree with the perspective that - most of these left-wing, cosmopolitant, supporters of multi-culture and diversity are COMPLETELY insensitive to whites. It is true that white privelege does exist, but to be so aggressive in their approach to improving race relations and diversity, is unfair. It also creates a resentment and backlash amongst some whites - who otherwise would've been tolerant - making them feel isolated and guilty for something that they didn't do, it's the system that is sometimes racist; an invisible hand - but certainly not an entire race or culture. Although the enligthened whites would naturally come to my perspective, those that do become resentful or even racist have naturally lower IQs - sorry, but it's true.

 

And while it may seem racist at first, for a white person to desire to be in a place that is still most white and not diverse - is it any different for someone to desire to join a black student association or chinese student association because they want to be surrounded by others with similar cultural experiences?? No - so stop making whites feel guilty about desiring to be at majority white locations - b/c I'll admit that in locations where multiculturalism and diversity are official and aggresively promoted - whites are made to feel as if it is bad to be white, like it is a sin. They can feel isolated too.

 

Now, for posters who commented on being prepared for diversity - claiming that blacks are unintelligent and that most of your colleagues will be white anyway - this is a very ignorant view. I do not agree with the liberal view that can potentially make whites feel isolated - but I also do not agree with whites who think that diversity is useless or a "nightmare". Because this world is REALLY diverse and NOT all blacks live in ghettos. If you actually travelled and exposed yourself to the diversity of the world - you would see that blacks do go to university, that many become laywers, doctors, professors, scientists, busniess people, ceos. As if you have never seen white trash!? There's poor trashy people from all races, and I feel sorry for those who think otherwise because you are going to be left behind in the 21st century.

 

Also - for the poster who said that China and Japan are social and economic failures --> China is a developing country, so its social institutions and structures are developing, and if you have an ounce of intelligence, you would know that social progress FOLLOWS economic and political progress.

 

As for Japan - it is far from being a social and economic failure. It is economically and technologically more advanced than Canada - I don't know how people can attend university and still be so ignorant.

[tarzi]

http://amren.com/0702issue/dalhousie.html

 

I don't agree with everything he said - but this is the type of thing that should not be censored. We'll never come to any solutions if we keep censoring certain perspectives but promoting others.

 

"With your immigration and multi-culturalist policies you are dicing with the future of your country. If there is even a small chance that by replacing European Canadians with Third-World Canadians you will end up with a Third-World country, do you not owe it to your children and grandchildren to think seriously about the demographic future of your country?"

 

Now that's pretty ignorant don't you think? I agree that race is a problem, that diversity is not all clouds and roses - but diversity leads to innovation. Perhaps the conflicst that arise from diversity - be it racial, sexual, religous, etc - mirrors the conflicts that arise from differences b/w states? And that if we can somehow find a solution to the conflict at the micro level (i.e, our society) maybe we can then find a solution to the conflict at the international level? Anyway, to impy that allowing third-world immigrants to come to Canada would lead to Canada becoming a third-world country is RACIST through and through. Because to believe that, you would have to believe that A) Race is a biological entity and b/c it is biological, there are inherent differences in IQ and behaviors between the races and finally that C) People of color from third-world countries are biologically inferior.

 

What is obvious however, is that these people do not have the same liberal and civil institutions that allow the individual to channel their strengths in order to achieve all that he/she can for themselves - in effect, leading to a strong economy and developed country. Didn't some economist write something about this? In Canada, the insitutions are in place, the infrastructure is there - through hard work, people really can achieve upward socioeconomic mobility. So there is no way that this would ever happen, at least not anymore likely than if Canada preferentially selected for poor and uneducated europeans.

 

Also, there were several flaws to his arguement - the only thing that was accurate, or I should say, that I agree with, is that diversity does lead to conflict. What I don't agree with is his implicit assertion that b/c it leads to conflict, it is bad, and we should do away with diversity. Not so - if people do not encounter conflict or challenges, they would never grow as people. It is a very special experience to live in a mutlicultural society - the conflicts and tensions help to make us better people. Sometimes, it causes us to think and behave in ways that we never knew existed in us before - then, the intelligent individual would take a step back and wonder "wow, why do I feel this way? Is it right? Is it wrong?" and hopefully becomes enlightened by these new and troubling experiences.

 

Does he also believe that if Canada was all-white, that there would be no need for the police? That crime would go down? That drugs would not be a problem? That every citizen will go to university and become lawyers, doctors, business executives, etc? That our economy would improve?

 

Finally, I don't think that anyone ever said that whites were inherently racist and that colored people are non-racist victims. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows that racism and discrimination happens in every society and every race. Whites who use this claim - a claim that I do not think was ever made - to justify their resentment are ignorant, because they twist the issue into something that it is not. No one is saying that whites are inherently racist - it's just that North America is a white continent, and white culture and white people are the standard and the majority. No matter how multicultural your city is, the country as a whole is still majority white - and this is reflected in film, television, and popular culture. In essence, there's no question about who is "in charge" or "on top" - as always, those who are "in charge" or "on top" will always get the blame and be made out to be the oppressor. I've never heard of the workers being oppressive, but I have heard of the boss being oppressive. So it has nothing to do with whites being whites, nothing to do with race - it has to do with the power structure of our society. And because the majority of human beings are too stupid to realize how superficial race is, the general population choose to let their identities be defined by "race", and turn the issue of oppression into an issue of racism, making whites feel guilty for being white. Oppression has always been with us - as long as there are those who have and those who aint got, someone will always feel oppressed, and somone will always take the blame for being the oppressor - even if Canada was all white. Anyway, it is unfortunate, but IQ does vary in this world - and some people are intellectually weaker than others, with the result that some people are predisposed towards allowing superficial ideas and emotions cloud their thinking.

[paulos]

Hey I'm East Indian, and I find Queen's a great school, small classes, great profs, not too much noise.

 

There are sub-cultures if you prefer to stick by colour or creed. I find intolerance exists in every part of Canada, but here it's no worse than anywhere else, maybe cuz so many students are actually from TO or Calgary.

 

My prediction is that it will take another 100-120 years before true integration is achieved, without breeding lines or any such nonsense. Hate is not evolutionarily successful, only cooperativity.

 

If we poor souls are bricks for others to build upon, then surely we, too, have inherited the labours of days gone by. Not far back were colour bars, "whites-only" service, etc. Is it really so bad that people won't yet admit to the secret fancies in their heart by which they regard themselves as better? I prefer it to having a gun to my head, that's for sure.