just wondering: are cadaver dissection courses common in undergrad?

[vip_138]

I'm taking an Advanced Human Anatomy course in my 3rd year at an undergrad university. This course is very selfdirected with a fair amount of hands-on cadaver dissection. I am wondering how rare something like pre-medschool cadaver experiences are? is this something that makes me special that i could talk about in interview?

[AMmd]

I'm taking an Advanced Human Anatomy course in my 3rd year at an undergrad university. This course is very selfdirected with a fair amount of hands-on cadaver dissection. I am wondering how rare something like pre-medschool cadaver experiences are? is this something that makes me special that i could talk about in interview?

this is allowed for undergrads??? it doesnt seem ethical

[vip_138]

unethical? how is this unethical? and just to clarify: by selfdirected i mean that the teacher allows us a fair bit of freedom. If this is a question of how a class like this is offered, its been offered for 30years at my school (Brandon University), with a prof that's taught at many medschools and chiropractic schools and we act with seriousness and maturity (we're not just screwing around with a human body). We have a class of 10, 5 ppl/lab.

[AMmd]

i didnt mean you are not mature... i think being in medicine does not make you mature (quite frankly its the oposite sometimes)

 

however what i meant was that normally the use of cadavers was to initiate students to the anatomy and surgery whould cannot be seen on computers or plastic models. and not everyone who takes that class will necessarly go into med school so the "hands on" experience is not very relevent

 

some school have a hard time getting their animal disections approved, so imagine human.

 

I would personally take that course. But i think its strange it is offered so gererally.

[SarahZ]

Cadavers aren't just used in medicine. Physios use cadavers and up until recently that was an undergrad program.

[vip_138]

oddly enough, there's only a few people in my class that have future aspirations of being a doctor. A couple physiotherapy, a couple 'i don't know what the hell i'm doing', a couple just for interest. Also realize this isn't just 'generally offered': only certain students (that show an aptitude for doing well in the class) are allowed in this course - thus everyone has a B or A (our midterm average was 84.5%)

[flying kumquat]

I think this is a fabulous opportunity! I believe there was a similar course offered at my undergrad school, Dal. At some med schools (including Queen's), first year med student don't even dissect cadavers. Here we learn from prosected cadavers and from an extensive collection in the anatomy museum. This year, I took a job preparing one of the cadavers for the first years. I've found that now that I'm dissecting, I'm (re)learning anatomy so much better. I think you're very lucky to be able to take this course!

[muchdutch]

At my school I believe PT, OT, and RT work with cadavers, in the same class as the med's (sharing cadavers). We also have a phys ed specific advanced anatomy that has their own cadaver's. Not sure why the meds have to share with the therapies and the PE's get's their own...

The general science students also have advanced anatomy classes, but as far as I know they are only lecture classes, not labs.

[blinknoodle]

If you feel like the experience has shaped your life, then it is important and you should definitely talk about it. I wouldn't worry about how many others have had similar experiences.. at my undergrad university (McMaster) many programs take human anatomy with (pre-dissected) cadaveric specimens (nursing, BHSc, bioengineering, midwifery, etc). There is also a 4th year human cadaver course which is more similar to what you're describing. A group of 4-5 students work together on the dissection of a human specimen throughout the term. Many people use anatomy and are visual learners so this helps. Some schools (ie Queen's) still have a BSc in anatomy and many pathology assistants have a strong anatomy background. Indoubtedly, anatomy is important for many allied health care professionals as well (physiotherapy, occupational therapy, etc) so it is not limited to those interested in medicine/surgery.

[aneliz]

I did a cadaver dissection course in undergrad as well (university of Guelph). This course was not freely available but was restricted to students in the human kinetics and biomedical science programs.

 

Because Guelph doesn't have a med school, we didn't have to share with other students.

 

I did med school at UWO... meds have their own cadaver dissection lab. There is a second lab that is shared by dentistry and PT. There is also an undergrad anatomy course but I don't know how much (if at all) they come into the lab.

[leviathan]

I agree that it's unethical...what purpose does that person serve for someone to play around with a body if they aren't going into a health care field? Aren't there are many medical schools that could use more cadavers?

 

Anyhow, UBC's undergrad anatomy course lets you go down into the lab to look at pre-dissected and preserved anatomy, but not entire bodies (ie.,you can look at a preserved thorax, abdomen, limbs). I've never heard of cadavers being used, though.

[vip_138]

I do agree, at least partially, that if cadavers are in short supply, they probably should be reserved for those in the health care field. Although, we get our bodies from UofM and they don't seem to be complaining (i guess they can afford to give up a cadaver a year). If anything they're happy to, considering those who enter their school from Brandon will have a better experience with dissections and understanding of anatomy. And considering 'some' people will apply to medicine, i don't see why other people with a genuine interest can't also learn with 'hands-on' experiences with the same body. We certainly don't "play around with a body".

[Persistent]

Hi there!

 

We've been exposed to cadavers since the first week of med school (at UBC) and I feel that it has been an excellent way to learn anatomy. Personally I don't feel like cadaver dissection need necessarily be restricted to Med School as it could aid in the understanding in other fields as well (such as Anatomy, Physiology, Human Kinetics). Also, to be able to do dissections in undergrad would be an excellent opportunity for those who think they want to become a doctor to really find out if they can handle some of the pressures such as dealing with cutting of a human being. Imagine if I had found out this year that I can't stand this stuff. All these years of work of getting into med school could possibly go to waste. So, I wouldn't say its such a bad idea. Obviously it should be taken very seriously and one should have the utmost respect to the donors and their families. It's definately a worthwhile learning experience both academically and emotionally.

 

 

Persistent

[leviathan]

And considering 'some' people will apply to medicine, i don't see why other people with a genuine interest can't also learn with 'hands-on' experiences with the same body. We certainly don't "play around with a body".

Well if someone is interested in pursuing a career in healthcare, it's not a bad idea at all. I'm just saying I think many people who want to donate their body to anatomical research would prefer to be used to aid medical students and other allied health care students in their knowledge, rather than going to people who just want to look at the body out of sheer interest (a la Body Worlds or something). At any rate, if I was to give my own body up after death, I wouldn't mind if it was used for an undergrad anatomy class as long as the students respected my body...but certainly, I'm sure many people would mind for the reasons I stated above.

[Satsuma]

Wow. I think the assumption that as an undergrad you are just "playing around" with the cadaver could be a bit offensive to some.

 

May I also point out that medicine IS an undergrad degree.

 

There are many students other than those directly pursuing clinical health care disciplines that require in depth understanding of human anatomy.

 

If someone was really just wanting to gawk at dead bodies they wouldn`t put themselves through the rigors of a human anatomy course. They would go to Body Worlds instead.

[muchdutch]

I'm sure that when you donate your body, because it is your body after all, if you specify that you only want to be used by med students then they would be happy to comply. I'm sure there are others out there who don't have a preference either way, they just want to help.

 

Frankly, it wouldn't really make a difference to you in the end anyway!

(I know that's not the point - just trying to make a little funny now and then)

[leviathan]

May I also point out that medicine IS an undergrad degree.

You knew what I was implying, but yes that is true.

 

There are many students other than those directly pursuing clinical health care disciplines that require in depth understanding of human anatomy.

The assumption of the debate was someone who was taking it purely out of interest.

 

If someone was really just wanting to gawk at dead bodies they wouldn`t put themselves through the rigors of a human anatomy course. They would go to Body Worlds instead.

"Gawking" was not what I was implying either. You cannot tell me that there are not people out there who would object to being studied by people other than healthcare students. Many people agree to it for the purpose of educating the future health care professionals, and not just to satisfy the curiosity of some math major who wants to fill one of their electives with anatomy for interest's sake. As I said, I personally would not care and certainly many other people probably feel the same as me, but maybe you should get consent prior to death before using people's bodies in ways they did not authorize.

[vip_138]

I think we have to look at the typical 'for interest' person. this isn't just some random person who's taking electives. these are people who are in zoology and have an interest for a reason. maybe they're undecided about medicine and want to dip their toes in (which may also weed people out that quickly realize this is not for them) or maybe they don't know what to do and this sparks their interest in the medicine field and because of this course, they'll become a doctor. only a few admit to have medical aspirations but i bet all of them are, at least sligthly, toying with the idea.

 

you also have to look at the dedication that one needs just to take the course - proving their genuine interest: 1) to fulfill the prerequisites for taking the course (1st year bio courses, and either comparative vertabrate anatomy or anatomy and physiology), 2) the grades needed for consideration (only B's and A's are acceptable).

 

And, as much as we want to control our bodies after death, we have no full control over it, you just ask people to obey your wishes and treat it how you want it treated.

[Ans]

I took several Anatomy courses with exposure to cadavers while I was in undergrad. I am in medicine now, however, many students who were in my classes are now doing a masters in anatomy. These are the people that are going to be teaching anatomy to future doctors, nurses, physiotherapists (and so on). These people may not have chosen to do a masters in anatomy had they not been exposed to it in undergrad.

 

Also- the anatomy professors that run the anatomy labs really stress the importance of respecting those who have donated their bodies for us to learn from. No one would dare "just play around" with the cadavers and anyone who was caught doing so definately would not be allowed in the anatomy lab again. There is even a memorial at the end of the year to pay our respects to those who have donated their bodies.