Dual citizenship

[envcons]

Hey everyone,

I'm new here so I thought I'd introduce myself. But dont worry I really do have a question about citizenship.

 

I'm a first year BSc. student at UVic and while I'd hate to call myself a pre-med I'm very seriously considering looking at applying to med school somewhere down the line. As of right now I'm leaning towards doing a biochem or chem major or honours possibly with co-op. I would really like to do some research as well though.

 

On to the question, I've lived in Victoria my whole life but my father is an American so on paper I'm a full citizen. Does anyone know if this means I can apply to American medical schools that don't accept international applications?

 

Thanks,

James

[EMD]

On to the question, I've lived in Victoria my whole life but my father is an American so on paper I'm a full citizen. Does anyone know if this means I can apply to American medical schools that don't accept international applications?

If you're a US citizen you can probably apply everywhere in the US. Canadian residency, as far as I know, doesn't prevent you from applying.

 

The only disadvantage you'd have coming from Canada (versus US citizens in the US) is -- you'd be considered "out-of-state" everywhere in the US. If you're thinking of applying... I'd go to the US consulate well in advance of starting to get yourself your papers. It may take several months for them to verify you as a citizen-- unless your father knows US government people in high up places or you have a US birth certificate.

 

Personally, I'd stay here if I was you--US schools tend to be more expensive than Canadian ones. Even if you want to practise in the US, there isn't really an advantage to doing med school in the US as the same licencing body (LCME) certifies all the med schools in Canada & the US. IMHO, reasons to go the US are... (1) MD/PhD with full funding (2) cannot get in to a Canadian school (3) go to a prestige school (e.g. Harvard, Yale, Stanford).

[Blahmanblah]

Is it even possible for a Canadian to get full funding for MD/PhD in the US?

 

I know that Canadian MD/PhD programs relative to the US ones, are mediocre. So if the above is the true, then wow, that's perfect.

[EMD]

Is it even possible for a Canadian to get full funding for MD/PhD in the US?

I'm quite sure it is possible 'cause I've heard of a couple of people that did just that. Also, I remember looking into it on a superficial level when I was applying a few years ago.

 

I know that Canadian MD/PhD programs relative to the US ones, are mediocre. So if the above is the true, then wow, that's perfect.

Speaking of Toronto, I think of the MD/PhD program holds its own in most respects; the quality of the research is on paar with other major centres.

 

Funding in Canada, AFIAK, is a bit of a sore spot-- 'cause it isn't all expenses paid deal; many US program pay the med school tuition, PhD and a stipend for the costs of living. Toronto, if I remember correctly, covers the tuition for the PhD, gives you the tuition for clerkship (year 3 + 4 of med school) and gives you a stipend for living. Peachy can probably comment more on this 'cause she is in the program. Also, things might have changed since I've examined the stuffs.

[ssc427]

Speaking of Toronto, I think of the MD/PhD program holds its own in most respects; the quality of the research is on paar with other major centres.

 

True, but UofT is about the only place in Canada where this is the case. Every other school I visited in Canada is way behind the US on the MD/PhD front. And you do get all years fully funded in US. This is good if you take on a tricky project and can't get it done in 7-8 years. I heard of someone who took 11 years and got funding for every year.

 

But if you have US citizenship count yourself very lucky because you qualify for US student loans and grants. Most US private schools will essentially waive tuition if you are poor (and American).

[Blahmanblah]

"The recent report on fostering the independence of new investigators from the National Research Council of the National Academies1 provided evidence that in 2002, the average age for first assistant professorships was about 38 years for MDs and 39 years for MD-PhDs. The average age for receipt of the first R01 or R29 award was 44 years for MDs and 43 years for MD-PhDs."

 

Is this true in Canada too? Near 40?

 

I was idealistically looking at...

 

MD/PhD by 26-27, residency for 3 years.... then assistant professorship by 30-32ish.

 

There doesn't seem to be much purpose in the PhD component then.

[ssc427]

 

Is this true in Canada too? Near 40?

 

I was idealistically looking at...

 

MD/PhD by 26-27, residency for 3 years.... then assistant professorship by 30-32ish.

 

There doesn't seem to be much purpose in the PhD component then.

 

I'd say it's true in Canada as well. I am a Canadian and have finished my PhD and am now doing the MD so has looked at this a bit.

 

Your timeline is a bit off. What residency do you expect to do in 3 years? Internal? Family? Neither of those have a big research component in those years. You would be given an academic job for post-doctoral research productivity - not simply because you have an MD/PhD.

 

The absolute fastest I've seen people get to a professorship is:

Accepted to MD/PhD at 21

Finish MD/PhD at 28 (keep in mind many people take 8 or 9 years)

5 year specialty until 33 (where you'd do 6 months - 1 year of research)

2 year fellowship until 35 (where you'd do mostly research)

 

Job at 35.

 

Now keep in mind that if you were to do you PhD without the MD it usually takes ~10 years after that to land a secure position anyways. So you're better off to do an MD/PhD because you'll be paid more, can do some clinical work on the side, and are more appealing to granting agencies who like to see a mixture of medicine and science.

 

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule. Publish a few first author Nature or Science articles and you could find yourself with offers following the MD/PhD, but I wouldn’t count on it. I know of one person who did an MD, residency in Internal, 2 years of post-doc then landed a job at Harvard. But he (Rod Mackinnon) also later won a Nobel Prize in chemistry which gives you some indication about the caliber of science he was doing.

[sonyvaio2700]

Hey everyone,

I'm new here so I thought I'd introduce myself. But dont worry I really do have a question about citizenship.

 

I'm a first year BSc. student at UVic and while I'd hate to call myself a pre-med I'm very seriously considering looking at applying to med school somewhere down the line. As of right now I'm leaning towards doing a biochem or chem major or honours possibly with co-op. I would really like to do some research as well though.

 

On to the question, I've lived in Victoria my whole life but my father is an American so on paper I'm a full citizen. Does anyone know if this means I can apply to American medical schools that don't accept international applications?

 

Thanks,

James

 

You are considered an AMERICAN citizen without a home state (which sucks because schools offer discounts for in state students). I would try to live in Texas for a year and try to establish residency. That's statistically is the easiest state to get into med school! and med school will cost you less than 7000 american! woohoo

 

Good luck

[Gavanshir]

I think all he needs is a US address to be considered resident of a state.

[envcons]

I know that the residency requirements differ pretty widely from state to state, but I assume that most of them would want me to have proof of living there for some minimum time period.

[sonyvaio2700]

I know that the residency requirements differ pretty widely from state to state, but I assume that most of them would want me to have proof of living there for some minimum time period.

 

yes it varies everywhere. but in texas i believe you need to show proof that you live and worked there a year and own a car license. but again it varies, so the poster is right. some states it might be easier than the other