Smurfette Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Does anyone feel that these numbers are becomming too large maybe? I understand that it is distribute between the three locations but with many other schools having numbers around 100 (give or take), but is this going to become less personal and perhaps even less manageable? I would venture to say that increasing the class size is inevitably going to lower the level of education. The class size only around 5 years ago was around 120. It was only around 3 years ago that the class size really started to significantly increase. At 256, that's more than double the class only several years ago. I highly doubt that in this short time, we have also doubled the faculty, so you're obviously going to have a larger student:faculty ratio, which will decrease the quality of the education. Having said that, however, I think that UBC has put a lot of resources (money, time, etc) into devising ways of maintaining a reasonnable quality of education. One of these ways is by increasing PBL time as one poster has mentionned. Other ways include the use of technology and utilizing the resources (especially people resources) in other cities with the distributed programs. I'm sure that UBC will not accept so many students unless they are reasonnably sure that they will be able to maintain an acceptable quality of medical education required to train competent doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBCGuy Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 http://72.14.253.104/u/FOMUBC?q=cache:MLM1oXR9N3AJ:www.med.ubc.ca/__shared/assets/Expansion_Backgrounder970.pdf+class+size+2006&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&ie=UTF-8 They say expect # of spots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 In my opinion, the quality of certain areas of the education has suffered with the first expansion class. However, I don't know if that's because it was the first year of expansion and we suffered through the growing pains or whether it is due to larger class size. Anyways, 256 spots is great news for applicants regardless. While there is truly a doctor shortage is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBCGuy Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 At least you have all of residency to get fixed up if it is less than up to snuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muchdutch Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Sure, but if residency spots aren't increased accordingly, then this theoretical 'decline in education' would extend to that period as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_gray Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 http://72.14.253.104/u/FOMUBC?q=cache:MLM1oXR9N3AJ:www.med.ubc.ca/__shared/assets/Expansion_Backgrounder970.pdf+class+size+2006&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&ie=UTF-8 They say expect # of spots... i, for some reason, i don't think that's in regards to the coming year. That's a 10-year plan started in 2004. it's 2007. perhaps someone could prove me wrong. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avenir001 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 If wanttobedoc received this information from the admissions office in writing, that's all the proof we need right now...it must be true. Their plan was probably to add ~30 seats by 2014?...looks like they're ahead of schedule...I say well done! Now let's hope they keep adding ~30 seats every 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanttobedoc Posted January 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 does someone have a link to somewhere where it says there's going to be 256 spots? i'm sure whoever said this first is an honest person, but i like to see it written somewhere in a PR or something. It is not up on the UBC site yet...because it was written to me in an email from admissions. I was inquiring about something else (I wanted to know number of interview applicants this year) and was told they had not compiled this information yet...I'm sort of regretting posting it because it is causing so much reaction... I'm sure it will be posted on their website soon....and if not....then don't hate the messanger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr nomis Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Our classrooms and laboratory facilities are of sufficient size and at first glance one would assume it would be easy to add another 50 or 100 students, as there are enough seats in those rooms. The real issue is for finding enough tutors for small-group activities such as PBL and clinical skills, enough cadavers for the students, and enough clinical preceptors for the students who are placed in GP's offices for Family Practice class. These are obviously the limiting factors as it is hard enough for the FP department to find enough placements for current students; some students are in Langley or Tsawwassen (too far to drive) or at walk-in clinics (not at all ideal for a class that is supposed to demonstrate sides of FP such as continuity of care). However, increasing the size of the distributed program eases this aspect of the burden as then they can send students to GP offices in Victoria and PG (and in the Okanagan in years to come). Regarding the residency issue: It will be hard enough for medical students to get their residency of choice with the increased class sizes. Not to mention the proposed alterations to CARMS which would allow international medical graduates an equal opportunity at the first round of residency matching in Canada . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfette Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Regarding the residency issue: It will be hard enough for medical students to get their residency of choice with the increased class sizes. Not to mention the proposed alterations to CARMS which would allow international medical graduates an equal opportunity at the first round of residency matching in Canada . . . Getting into residency is an issue, but my understanding is that UBC has done a pretty good job of increasing the residency spots along side the medical school spots (compared to many other schools in the country). I was also under the impression that most schools are opening IMG's to first round matching in a parallel system in cARMS. Therefore, canadian grads are not directly in competition with IMG's since they are competing for a different pool of residency spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Some people are so skeptical! "Medical school expansion is expected to double the number of available entry-level seats for medical students to 256 in 2007 from 128 in 2001. The Okanagan Medical Program was announced in April 2005 and will add an additional 30 first-year medical school spaces on top of the 256 when the program is expected to begin in 2009/10." "Postgraduate entry-level medical education positions, or residencies, will increase to keep pace with the medical school expansions. The number of entry-level residency positions increased from 128 in July 2003 to 180 in 2005/06 and is expected to increase to 256 by 2011/12. This will be further expanded as the Okanagan Medical Program comes online." http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2005-2009/2005HEALTH0039-001058-Attachment1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanttobedoc Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 thanks for posting that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssc427 Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 The real issue is for finding enough tutors for small-group activities such as PBL and clinical skills, enough cadavers for the students, and enough clinical preceptors for the students who are placed in GP's offices for Family Practice class. These are obviously the limiting factors as it is hard enough for the FP department to find enough placements for current students; some students are in Langley or Tsawwassen (too far to drive) or at walk-in clinics (not at all ideal for a class that is supposed to demonstrate sides of FP such as continuity of care). However, increasing the size of the distributed program eases this aspect of the burden as then they can send students to GP offices in Victoria and PG (and in the Okanagan in years to come). I wonder where those extra students are going. As far as I know there are still going to be 24 students here at IMP next year. I assume the same is true in PG. I did feel like the clinical resources were a little stretched already in Vancouver.... e.g. 2 students/preceptor in family practice, and while there are more people to shadow in Vancouver I often found a wall of fellows, residents and upper years with me on observerships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physiology Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Just received an update: Pending final approval & funding issues, the plan for the class starting in 2007/2008 is: 256 students in the 2007/08 academic year - 32 students in IMP - 32 students in NMP - 192 in VFMP Physio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr nomis Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Physiology is correct. This information was detailed in an e-mail from the Dean of Medicine sent to members of the Faculty dated Feb 22. As well, it was also announced at the Associate Dean's Night on Feb. 23. This means that UBC is poised to host the largest medical school class in North America. Some applicants will be apprehensive about a very large class size. Despite the large class size, at the Associate Dean's Night, the Associate Dean of Student Affairs emphasized that students will still have extensive academic and personal support. As well, a large part of the curriculum is delivered in the small group setting. Finally, the class will not have the 'largest class in North America' feel by any means as they will distribute the students among 3 sites; in fact, the Island and Northern programs will feel quite the opposite, having only have a couple dozen students each. The 'pending approval' has to do with funding / the ability to accomodate all the students in clinical experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeaneFan Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 This is good, it means that statistically those with interviews have a 40% chance of getting in. However...it's the 'competitive' 40%... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubcredfox Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 This means that UBC is poised to host the largest medical school class in North America. Wow. Kudos to UBC for making the medical undergrad experience even less intimate. Is anyone else wondering why 256 seats exactly? Well, because Jefferson Medical College (the now 2nd largest North American medical school) has 255. We just had to grab the title! YEE HAW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bioboy2007 Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 Wow. Kudos to UBC for making the medical undergrad experience even less intimate. Is anyone else wondering why 256 seats exactly? Well, because Jefferson Medical College (the now 2nd largest North American medical school) has 255. We just had to grab the title! YEE HAW! Cynical much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr nomis Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Wow. Kudos to UBC for making the medical undergrad experience even less intimate. Is anyone else wondering why 256 seats exactly? Well, because Jefferson Medical College (the now 2nd largest North American medical school) has 255. We just had to grab the title! YEE HAW! Cynical much? First of all, to answer Bioboy2007's question, yes, ubcredfox is the most cynical guy I know. I have learned to laugh at him even though I silently worry about the potential of him bursting a vital artery or two in his head due to stress. Secondly, as I mentioned in my previous post and as I've been telling applicants all weekend, while UBC could have the largest class size, the Island and Northern programs only have 36 people each, which make them among the smallest class sizes in the continent. As well, most of our curriculum is done in small groups, and by small I mean small - our PBL groups only contain 8 students (half the size of some other med school PBL groups), our DPAS tutor groups are 8 students, our Clinical Skills groups are 8 students, and our Family Practice groups are 2 students (only 1 if you're in the IMP / NMP). Yes, the lecture hall will be quite full, but how many among us didn't go to undergrad where most of the lectures were +400 people? I, for one, did go to a very small undergrad school (intro biology about 90 people) and have NOT felt overwhelmed by the UBC class size. And finally, all of the lecturers in our program are incredibly accessible. Even though they're required to give us their phone number and e-mail address, I've found that they are almost all quite willing to speak with students and answer questions. It may be a huge class, but I sure haven't felt like it is. I know ubcredfox is going to give me heck for tooting the UBC horn, but hey, I tell it like I see it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuantum Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Ya...I think the large class size is a good thing (for me at least). Small groups are cool every now and then, however, I think the reduced amount of privacy the associate dean of the NMP described was a turn-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeaneFan Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 This 256 seats thing looks pretty official now, even though the Dean of Admissions already hinted toward it being an almost sure thing... http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2005-2009/2007HEALTH0029-000316.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeria Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 One thing I always wondered about... Why don't they break things up to 3 seperate medical schools. One in Prince J and one in Victoria. At least that way, people can apply to different schools and each can dictate what kind of candidates they want. Right now UBC gets to decide on 256 students entering. I am sure that UNBC will want different type of people studying there and hopefuly working there. Actually, it is sort of a "seperate" admissons process already. There is a comittee at UNBC that looks over all of the applicant's files and ranks the applicants that they want. So they get their first choice first, as long as that person wants to go to the north. And maybe it is better for them this way because they are surely saving money by pooling their resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuantum Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Actually, it is sort of a "seperate" admissons process already. There is a comittee at UNBC that looks over all of the applicant's files and ranks the applicants that they want. So they get their first choice first, as long as that person wants to go to the north. And maybe it is better for them this way because they are surely saving money by pooling their resources. Ya...it pretty much already is. Also, an advantage of having one is that you can generally be assured that the information/training is standardized. However, on the downside, if UBC is not doing something well, that's perpetuated throughout the province and it may not be as easily evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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