If You are hesitant on coming to UQ, I'd say give it one more shot in Canada or US!!!

[DrEvil]

I will be applying to UQ next year if Canada or US doesn’t go well

for this cycle. I’m giving it one more shot in North America…then I’ll feel

satisfied that I have exhausted my options in Canada or US.

 

I know that some of you guys will be second guessing whether you should go

or not and I think that’s totally natural since it’s a HUUUUUGE decision:confused:

 

I just came off the phone with my friend who’s at UQ and he said if there’s

too much hesitation:confused: in coming then I should wait a year and then try. I’m going to do that…I think I’ll be able to get into UQ next year with my

stats. He said that I should exhaust Canada or US and then come if nothing

happens since then I will be absolutely ready to go to Australia:eek:

 

If you got in this year, then you’ll very likely get in next year so there’s no harm if you don’t go. For all those that do go, I wish you the BEST OF LUCK:D

 

Evil

[AussieMed]

Hey Dr.Evil,

Ya, I'd agree with you. You seem to be very sensible and your plan is good. I didn't have the stats for Canada so I would've had to do a Master's to get in so I would've had to wait at least 2 years. In hindsight I would've tried to do that. That also seems to be the sentiment of many of the Canadians down here.

Canada most often takes more than 1 try...most people have to apply at least 2 or 3 times. Most of my friends that got into Canada actually got in on their 2nd and 3rd tries. All I'm saying is that if you've been rejected in Canada it's not a big deal. Learn from it and give it another shot rather than jump into coming down under.

[emi]

Hi AussieMed,

I know it's hard to come back to Canada, but is it possible for a Canadian to become a doctor in Austrlia?

How about doing residency in the States?

[AussieMed]

Emi, it's possible to work in Australia but it's probably not what you want to do. First, you'd have to get PR and wait a hell of a long time (8 to 10 years or so) after that so that you can get a provider number in order to start your own practise. After, this then you'll make good money because doctors in Australia are well paid but still not as highly as the States. Still, I simply don't want to wait until I'm 35 to get lots of money...that's way too old

 

My advice is if you come here, study your butt off for the USMLE's and apply for residency position in the States. I must warn you though, the USMLE's are killer...not easy licensing exams...USMLE 1 is like a triple MCAT!!!...and these exams cost loooottts of money to take!!!

 

Also, Australian schools have never been the best training grounds for the USMLE's since most Australian med graduates will end up staying in Australia. So, you will have to study quite a bit more than what is taught in your classes in order to cover all that is on the USMLE. Actually, the Carribean schools are designed so that their students do well on the USMLE's...and it shows since the big Carribean schools have some amazing match statistics.

 

Also, Australia for me is waaaaaayyy too far from Canada so that's an issue as well. Although this country is great, I always feel like a foreigner and I always dream of coming home...home sweet home. Hope that helps you out.

[emi]

Hi AussieMed,

 

Thanks for your reply! It's very helpful.

But I have a question... What's a provider number? Why can't you practice as soon as you get your PR?

 

Thanks so much for answering my question!

[AussieMed]

Hey Emi

 

The provider number is needed so that you can get money from Medicare in Australia. Without the provider number, you can't start a practise....which would suck!!!

 

All internationals graduating from Australia are subject to provider number restrictions. Usually, you can start practising only 10 yrs after you get your PR. You can only get your PR after you graduate because otherwise you'll be paying Aussie medical fees and the school 'may' kick you out of the program...since you agreed at the start of the program you'd pay international fees. I know of one student who got PR before graduating and was kicked out. BUT, I also know 1 person who got PR before graduating and wasn't kicked out...and got to pay Ozzie fees. However, moral of the story is...don't take the risk and try to get PR sooner than you should...get it after you graduate...also...every time you apply for PR, it costs A LOT!!!...

 

After that you will have to wait 10 yrs...BUT..if you agree to work in a rural area it can be shortened to even 5 yrs...but trust me...most rural areas are not that nice to work in...

 

To be honest, if I had known all this then I would've done a Master's and try for Canada or the US..and maybe even the Carribean..since with the Carribean route, I could easily work in California and make tons of cash and there's none of this 10 year moratorium thing to worry about...anyways, if you ask me, the Aussie route is not that great

[Poolboy]

I was in a similar situation - applied to Canadian schools for a couple of years and getting rejected - so I looked into Irish and Australian schools - last year I had an interview with Sydney (I think), and after thinking about it I decided to not go and go back to school and become a teacher - after my fourth Canadian application I finally got in and am really happy I decided to wait - you never know what can happen!

[AussieMed]

Hey Poolboy

 

That's awesome! Ya, I've had a few friends go through a similar situation. One in particular got into UofQueensland last year and she really wanted to go but she decided to give Canada one more shot. She got one interview at Ottawa this year and she got in!! She's very glad she waited.

[emi]

Hey AussieMed,

Thank you sooo much for your clarification on this issue. This is something I've never heard before, but it's clearly an important thing to consider if I decide to come to UQ.

Actually, this was my first time applying to a med school. I never tried Canadian or American ones, so maybe waiting a year won't be that bad.

Thank you so much again AussieMed!

[AussieMed]

Hey Emi

 

No problem..I just want everyone going through this process to be aware of any drawbacks going this route...especially the ones that I wasn't aware of when I came

 

If you guys have a gpa of over 3.5 and a 29 or over on the MCAT, then you should have a very strong shot at the US. At least make a try for the US. Many people can never get those stats...I couldn't You'll likely get several interviews in the states and get in somewhere. Thus, you won't have to worry about coming back to Canada, also no restriction with the specialties, and of course no 10 yr moratorium!!! For me, well...I didn't have those stats...and I also wasn't aware of the significant disadvantages of going overseas for med. I hope I have helped some of you guys make a more informed decision .

[paulchemguy]

hey what kind of restrictions on specialities are u talking about?

[AussieMed]

Hey Paul

 

By restriction on specialties I mostly mean if you try to come back to North America you won't have a good shot at getting a good specialty. IMG's are not favoured by the program directors in North America because the program directors don't have a deep knowledge of the skill levels of these students. They favour grads from their own nation's schools. If you go IMG, make sure you're alright with family med .

 

As for getting a competitive specialty in Australia...it will be very hard due to the HUGE number of medical graduates recently . If you really want some chance at a good residency and you want to go IMG, I would go to the Carribean ..you will do your last 2 years of med school doing clinicals in the US and thereby you will become familiar with the program directors....this is a major bonus when it comes to matching... Also, the match stats of the big Carribean schools have been historically really strong.

[Queensland2010]

Hello everyone I'm studying in my 1st year here at UofQ and it's been fun so far....especially the first few weeks meeting everyone. However I've learned a lot about the restrictions that us international students face in the coming years and I'd like to speak about them. I had to come here because I really had no choice. I didn't have the academics for even an interview in Canada or the US..so I'm here....it's fun ...but there are some not so good things about this journey. Here are some points to ponder

 

Pros of studying in Ausralia:

- nice weather, nice people, and I like Brisbane. Yes, it's far from the ocean but it's a nice place, maybe not as nice as Syd though but not 2 shabby either.

- clinical training is quite good

 

Cons of studying in Australia: - there are more cons than pros

- residency training if way too long here, much longer than in North America, but I guess this only matters if you plan to do a residency here, which is something I would NOT recommend due to the 10 year thingamajig..lol

- 10 year moratorium thing that many have mentioned already. Yes, it can be decreased to 5 years if you sign a rural conract but the rural pay is HORRIBLE. It would be better to work as a physiotherapist or chiropractor and you'll make way more cash than a rural doctor in Australia

- going back to Canada is a major issue but this is the case with all overseas schools

- going to the US is more complicated than if you went to Caribbean for med and then tried to go to the US

 

btw DrEvil, this is a great post and really gives Canadians a better realistic view of what people can expect from this journey. I agree with your approach wholeheartedly. I hope that helps my fellow Canadians out a bit!

[Zuckman]

Hey Queensland2010!!!

 

Great poste and thanks a bunch for that. Over the last month or so I've gotten a much better picture of what many internationals are facing in Australia. The situation for internationals doesn't seem that good especially in financial terms and the hurdles in coming back to Canada, especially from the research I've done.

 

Could you mention what you think about the Australian (or Univ. of Queensland) MBBS program? I made the decision to only come to Oz if I absolutely 100% feel that the US or Canadian med school thing is not gonna happen. It seems that Oz has so many hurdles that it's simply not worth it..

 

Zuck

[Queensland2010]

Zuckman.. that's a good call...coming down under is a huge commitment and it's good that you're not simply jumping into it ...many Canadians do that. If I could have gotten into the U.S. I would have done whatever I could to get there but my grades and mcat were way off. Here's my list of pros/cons on the course itself:

 

Pros:

- quite good clinically and the docs here are helpful

- I like the pbl - I didn't do pbl in undergrad so it's a nice change - but pbl is not unique to the U of Q program

 

 

Cons:

- difficult to talk 1 on 1 with profs since the class is so huge- it often seems like we're just 1 of many in a huge factory

- the administration hasn't been too close with the international students so far - I hope that'll change but I'm not holding my breath

- it has been very hard to challenge any type of exam result and the marking is really really bad

[UQ_Grad]

Zuckman.. that's a good call...coming down under is a huge commitment and it's good that you're not simply jumping into it ...many Canadians do that. If I could have gotten into the U.S. I would have done whatever I could to get there but my grades and mcat were way off. Here's my list of pros/cons on the course itself:

 

Pros:

- quite good clinically and the docs here are helpful

- I like the pbl - I didn't do pbl in undergrad so it's a nice change - but pbl is not unique to the U of Q program

 

 

Cons:

- difficult to talk 1 on 1 with profs since the class is so huge- it often seems like we're just 1 of many in a huge factory

- the administration hasn't been too close with the international students so far - I hope that'll change but I'm not holding my breath

- it has been very hard to challenge any type of exam result and the marking is really really bad

 

 

Hello Everyone,

 

Contrary to the above posts, you guys and gals shouldn't be discouraged into coming to the University of Queensland.

 

There are plenty of opportunities following your graduation.

 

First off, the profs are not hard to talk to. As long as you go during their office hours or make an appointment. Through my years of training I have not had any problems with talking or having a casual conversation with them. They are people too.

 

The marking thing is not an issue. Just with any institution, there are rules and guidelines set. You are welcome to appeal any grades/marks that you do not agree with or you can simply speak to the prof about it. Marking is not that hard as compared to some elite institutions in Canada.

 

About the residency issue. Many of my friends who have graduated were able to find a residency either in Australia or elsewhere. You shouldn't be discouraged about being able to work in Australia. Once you are licensed, you do not have to wait the 10 years as mentioned above. In fact, you are eligible to "fast track" your work permit application depending on the sponsoring employer (usually a hospital). As well, because you are a "qualified professional" you are eligible for "permanent residency" status within 1 year or so of applying (as long as you can prove your suitability to stay in the country).

 

With that said, I encourage all of you who have already been accepted to think about your offer, and in my case, I recommend that you study in this University.

 

It is a great place!

[AussieMed]

Great posts guys,

 

Definitely think about the decision long and hard. UQ_grad, yes you may be able to get a residency in Canada or the US in family practise and less likely in internal med...but the chances of getting anything else are so major slim. It would even be very difficult to get a family med or internal med residency as an IMG applying to Canada. To those that are thinking of becoming a surgeon, dermatologist, or radiologist, etc, don't come here...you will never achieve your dream. You have better odds of winning the lottery than coming here and getting one of those residencies back in Canada or the US.

 

Honestly, I wanted to become a dermatologist for so long..and I found out that this would never happen coming here...so I've settled on family med...let's face it...most people don't want to spend $250K and plenty of their lives to do something they'll only be half satisfied with (ie. Family Med).

[Zuckman]

Aussiemed

I really like the way you've given us a different perspective on going to study med in Oz. Thanks a lot for that.

 

Currently, I'm not too sure I want to do Family Med...I've done some work with family doctors and it definitely hasn't appealed to me. That's why I'm going to try to do what I can to get into Canada or the US. Also, paying over 200K for an education plus the years of study just to go to Family Med is not a great decision in financial terms. That's actually a rip off

 

Zuckman

[paulchemguy]

hmm is it that hard to do residency in US?!? i'm interested in internal med at the moment. If it's so hard, why do so many people going to australia even attempt the USMLE when chances are so slim? it just blows my mind

 

now it seems like the only way to pratice in US/Canada is to study in the respective countries....so what are your plans, aussiemed?

[AussieMed]

Hey Paul

If you get good scores on the USMLE's and you go to many interviews for internal med then I'm sure you can get this in the US. But, it's not easy to do well on the USMLE's...but if you work at it I'm sure you can go to internal med. Also it's important to do clinical electives in the US..this is something the Carribean students have an edge on. Program directors tend to like the Carribean students more than other IMG's because of their clinical experience in the US.

 

The thing is, if you go here, you won't be able to get a competitive residency. Yes, there are rare cases in which someone gets a very competitive residency..but this is the exception rather than the rule. Generally, it doesn't happen. Internal med is not a competitive residency. But you may change your mind so don't be too shortsighted.

 

My plans are family med in the US. Australia is way too far from Canada. It shouldn't be too hard to go to the US for family med...but since I'm not American there will be some visa problems that will have to be sorted out ...but not sure about that visa stuff yet.

[Queensland2010]

One of my friends was 100% into family med when he came down. Now after learning about surgery (specifically orthopedics) he wants to do this. But, this is going to be impossible. Just goes to show that premeds really don't know what type of doctor they want to be. You may think you know, but trust me, you don't.

[paulchemguy]

are there any opportunities to do overseas electives (in US) for the Queensland program?

[Queensland2010]

PaulChemGuy Ya, there are those opportunities. However, the bad thing to me about Australia is that the exposure to clinicals in the US is small compared to the Carribean students who get to do ALL THEIR clinicals in the US. Also plane tickets from Australia to the US are expensive. Make sure you have financial support from your family or significant other and it will make things much easier. From what I've heard, the Sydney and Flinders admin are better at helping their international students.

[DrEvil]

Getting in 1 year later is no big deal guys:D ! I'm spending the next year working at a medical clinic learning about the health care field. It also gives me the chance the take some business courses and learn about the business side of medicine. Going abroad quicker is just a temporary relief, but eventually you'll find out it's a much greater hardship:eek: .

[paulchemguy]

Getting in 1 year later is no big deal guys:D ! I'm spending the next year working at a medical clinic learning about the health care field. It also gives me the chance the take some business courses and learn about the business side of medicine. Going abroad quicker is just a temporary relief, but eventually you'll find out it's a much greater hardship:eek: .

 

i'm not being negative, but my take on this is, there's no guarantees that one would make it into a Canadian school simply by retrying again