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Stats for # of med schools applied to


Guest hopeful

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Guest hopeful

Somebody asked me today whether I knew how many students only apply to 1 med school. I know I have read somewhere that the typical Canadian med school applicant applies to 3-5 schools but I don't know how many only apply to 1. Does anybody know where/if I can find this stat? I will try and give OMSAS a call but wondered if anyone knew where I could find this stat online. Thanks.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Presuming Ed

I'm not aware of a site explicitly stating the stats re number of schools applied to per applicant. The OMSAS site has a document outlining the applicant pool for the most recent completed application year, and it states the TOTAL number of applicants to Ontario med schools, and the number that applied to each. Some schools had about 1500 applicants as I recall, while Mac had something like 3000, out of a total of about 4000 applicants. Suggests to me that most people narrow their applications to 1 to 3 schools, with about 75% applying to Mac. I guestimate that 50% of those latter applicants use Mac as "insurance" in case they don't get into the school of first choice.

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Guest Ian Wong

Here's an old thread:

 

pub44.ezboard.com/fpremed101frm0.showMessage?topicID=244.topic

 

I suspect that most people from Ontario would apply to every school that they were eligible for. I think med school admissions is difficult enough that you'd be compromising your chances of getting into a med school by not applying to as many schools as you are qualified for. Having said that, I only applied to three Canadian med schools (and three US ones that I never returned the secondary applications) on my attempt.

 

Presuming Ed, one disadvantage of PBL is that you definitely don't gain the broadness in your education that could attain via a lecture-based system. The content that you discuss in PBL is usually learned fairly well, as a significant investment by each student has already been made in researching and then discussing the material, however, you tend to miss out on everything else that you didn't research (even though those other things might also be clinically relevant).

 

Kind of like a swimming pool being very large across, but only a meter deep, versus a diving pool that's small across, but 5 meters deep. Both get you into the water, but for different things.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

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Guest Carolyn

I think Ian's point is good about applying to all schools that you can - it is too risky not to! You'd be amazed who does and doesn't get into med school (I know one girl who interviewed across Canada and only got into Mayo!). It is also amazing the number of people who apply more than one time to get into medical school.

 

Also each person is suited to different types of learning... I prefer total PBL, others prefer a mix and some hate PBL... Also important is to recognize that PBL varies from school to school. PBL is very different at UBC than it is at Mac (I only know that because I worked with two people on elective this summer from UBC and we chatted about it)... So it is important to understand what PBL means to each school.

 

At Mac, I think we actually get a really strong cross-section of all areas. We don't split up the topics and only research parts like PBL groups at other schools (if we did, I would absolutely agree with Ian's point)...

 

Take care.

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Ian,

 

Do you find that UBC's curriculum shares those weaknesses with its PBL, or does the lecture part make up for it? Can you make an estimate of what percentage of your material is learned in PBL vs. lectures?

 

Thanks! :)

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Last year there were 10,225 applications from 3854 people for Ontario schools. So that's an average of 2.65 per person. It's probably actually a bit higher than that, though. There are probably lots of out of province people among the 3854, and they would at least apply to their own provincial school, possibly some other provinces too, etc. I think "typically" (if such a thing exists) in Ontario, people would apply either to Mac only, Mac and Ottawa (if they haven't written the MCAT), or all 5 of them...

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Guest cheech10

JD,

Mac especially seems to have a high number of applications. Do you think they'd apply to Mac and Ottawa only because the MCAT isn't required, or some other reason (like the less stringent prereqs at Mac)? Because a friend of mine did the opposite and applied to UofT, UWO and Queen's only. I think it's just a matter of how confident you feel about admissions, which schools are a better fit for you, and which schools' prerequisites you satisfy.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Presuming Ed

Ian,

thanks for your comments, but I am really tired of people trashing Mac's programme, regardless of how eloquently they do it.

 

Enjoy didactic learning? Good for you. Would you flounder at a PBL school like Mac? Good thing you aren't studying there!

 

Have you heard the joke about what people call the last place graduate of McMaster medicine?

 

Doctor....

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Guest Ian Wong

Hi Presuming Ed,

 

I'm not trashing Mac's program, and I don't think I ever have. Carolyn and I simply have different learning styles, and it's good that we both found schools that complimented our personalities. I spent a part of yesterday working with an ENT resident here who did med school at Mac, and he believes that their program has some serious advantages and disadvantages, compared with a more typical Canadian med school approach of hybrid PBL plus lectures, and a four year curriculum.

 

It's no secret that I don't think PBL, at least as executed here at UBC, isn't as good at teaching the same breadth of information as lectures. In fact, I'd go one step further and say that PBL, in general, by its very design of forcing you to become self-directed and to invest a very significant part of your time to researching the material, makes it impossible to cover the same volume of information. I'd estimate that probably 70% of our class has a negative viewpoint on PBL, with some people relatively neutral, and others in favour of it.

 

This doesn't mean that I'm trashing Mac. I simply don't like PBL, and I was explaining why. In either event, I've finished the PBL portion of the UBC curriculum, but I believe it is valuable for people (especially premeds) to know that, at least in one med student's opinion, PBL is NOT the end-all and be-all of medical education.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

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Guest UofTMDgradMAcresidency

Hi everyone

 

I know from experience, and the very impressive stats, that Ontario schools have the best and the brightest. We have to, it is just that competitive. We do not have our province sheilding away other applicants and infact we have to fend off other applicants from the other provinces. In terms of numbers we are talking 2000 applicants for 130 spots per school, not 300-400 apps or less for a 130 spots. Many applicants who have gotten in in other provinces would quite frankly never have made the cut had they lived and applied to the Ontario schools. Ian your 3 year Bio degree and your "interesting" volunteer and lab work would not have seperated at all you from what they are breeding over here. Basically in Ontario you have to be stellar, a leader in every regard, highly productive research work, or work experience in your field and killer marks. Trust me Mac is an excellent school, and one that many BC applicants would just never get into. So leave them alone, you just don't know how easy you have it.

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Guest Ian Wong

Guys, I'm not trashing Mac and never have... Relax a little. Med school is what you make of it; you just have to find the one that fits your personality best.

 

What residency are you doing now, and what made you decide to specialize in it?

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

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Guest Jase133

Yo people, let's get off this whole Mac issue. It's getting rather boring. (I went through the application process last year; different people, same comments.) Some people like Mac-style PBL, others don't. Besides, the word PBL has become such a buzzword in the medical education industry that the "original" PBL (as intended by the people who established it at Mac) is different from school to school.

 

Oh yeah, and lay off of Ian. He's doing a good job with this board and moderating it so that it doesn't become like the "other" board. :)

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Guest MDUTMACRES

Ian I apologize I'm sure you are a fine lad and you are doing a great job with this board. As for me its Cardiology (general invasive) py2 currently. Man I thought Meds was tough this is dam near murder. To top it off they want me to take on additional research responsibilities in year 4 and 5 possibly to lead into a Phd. My resident supervisors are nuts, we are basically at Mac hospital 8am-2am~3am 6 days and on call day seven which usually translates into 4-5 hours . Its wierd but all of the residents joke about how much we wish our job continued working on cadavears! Most of the residents (in the entire teaching hospital) have broken up with their girlfriends/boyfriends wives/husbands (all but two) because these hours change who you are and never allow you to see each other. People are starting to act stir crazy, weird twitches and behaviours (finding residents hiding in the bookstacks at the Mac Med libary for no apparent reason). It's like Veitnam and I'm watching my comrads go down!

 

I think on top of the stress people are getting a taste of the reality of what medicine is today. The govt intervention has really created a situation where the health care system and the entire province is basically the titanic and people are jumping for their lives. Out of the entire neurosurgery resident class that completed last year, not even one stayed in Ontario. Most went to the states while a few went out west. I really dont know whats going to happen to this province.

 

Anyways enough depressing stuff from our land of terror. Good luck Ian with your ENT pursuits I'm sure you will be a great doc, anyone who can create such a stellar forum has surely got it going on. Oh yeah and guys, date some girls for me!!!! Living through you is the best I can do right now (that and the resident porno night every tuesday in our break room)

 

Rock on

 

Steve

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Guest Ian Wong

Hey Steve,

 

If you want to blow off steam, that's what we're here for too. :) Taking call sure was an adjustment for me this year. There is a definite revolution in healthcare right now; people just aren't tolerable of being worked to death, nor should they be.

 

The match rates are simply going to get more dismal for most of the harder lifestyle specialties, and cushier residencies like Rads, Path, and Anes are only going to get more competitive. Here at UBC, there is some turnover among the Gen Surg residents (second-hand information from my classmates is that there's an R4 and an R1 that are leaving). I haven't met any residents in any specialties that aren't putting in seriously heavy hours; this just can't be healthy.

 

I talked with one of the neurosurgeons here on staff; apparently about half of the neurosurgeon crop in Canada (ie. the finishing R6's, automatically leave for the States). I can't believe the insane hours the Neurosurg residents put in here (I signed up for a two week elective with them), and many of the staff work pretty hardcore hours as well. I signed up for medicine to help others. Messing up my own life in the process wasn't part of the bargain.

 

Anyway, I hope things get better for you, and I'm sure it will, especially as it gets lighter outside and there's more things to do. Ain't nothing more depressing then starting the morning before the sun rises, and leaving the hospital the following afternoon after sunset... Please post if you are able, we're listening.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

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This may be off topic...but I read from this thread that Ontario med schools do not give in province applicants an advantage. I'm a little confused...I will be an oop applicant for ontario schools and I thought I'd be disadvantaged because I'm from BC. Any thought? I heard that Mac will only interview a fixed number of oop students...

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Other than the Mac interview thing (90% of interviewees will be from Ontario), I don't think there are any more advantages to being an Ontario resident vs. OOP. I think Ottawa had a higher GPA requirement for OOP applicants (upper 3.8's) before, but I don't know if they still do that... so basically in Canada, Ontario applicants get screwed over the most. Not that I'm bitter or anything :)

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Guest UWOMED2005

Actually, I've heard from reliable sources that Western's brought in a preference for students from the 519 (London/Kitchener-Waterloo/Cambridge/etc.) area code this year. Also U of O has given preference in past years to applicants from under-serviced regions, the Ottawa area, or French communities outside Quebec.

 

Don't stress too much about the bias though - two years ago there was a bias for Ontario students and I know several students from that class are from NS, Nfld, Manitoba, and BC. In fact, I'm not 100% sure of this but I'm fairly certain there's as many OOP applicants in that class as the one which was admitted this year - using no preference at all.

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Guest Carolyn

Ian definitely doesn't trash Mac's programme - just UBC's PBL... :D I have found him very supportive of all schools in Canada. I just wish this board was around when I was applying

 

PBL at UBC (and almost all other schools other than Calgary) from what I understand is very very different than Mac - I too would have a negative view of it if it was only a small component of my education. I'm much more of a purist - I believe it should make up the majority of the curriculum. Unless you have the time to really put PBL into practice (i.e. seek out resources (books, journals, clinical experiences, electives, go to the anatomy lab, talk to experts in the field etc. etc. etc.)) in order to get a good cross-section of each concept then you really can't get the most out of PBL. We have a lot of unscheduled time at Mac but the majority of us work our arses off for most hours of the day and schedule in all sorts of activities that are really a part of PBL... One of the reasons why time management is something that they stress through the interview process.

 

Now that I'm in my medicine rotation of clerkship I'm really excited to see how effective the PBL style has been for me. I feel really comfortable taking on responsibility and making decisions (which of course have to be agreed upon by a resident or staff)... I feel comfortable doing and learning new procedures and I'm really excited about becoming a resident. The only part that sucks is the hours... The other day I woke up post-call at 7 and was so frustrated that I had to start work again -- it took me fifteen minutes to realize that I had only slept 2 hours and it was 7 pm and not 7 am... That said medicine is lots of fun and it is great to finally be putting it to practice.

 

I will fully admit that PBL is not appropriate for everyone -- I have some good friends who would have flourished under a more traditional system and struggle under our system. Having done some basic sciences at UofT, I am so glad I'm here at Mac. While I did well there academically, I hated learning that way and really don't think I personally would be as good a doctor if I did my medical degree in a traditional programme.

 

All schools in Canada are excellent - It is ridiculous to even try to rank them because it really depends on your own learning style as to which one is the best for you.

 

Carolyn

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Guest bad hombre

just a thought:

if we can assume that all (or most) the people that wrote the mcat applied to UWO, and all the people who met the cutoffs got an interview there, then that means that 400 people have GPA's over 3.65 and 9/9/9/P mcat's right? so odds are if you have those stats you should be ok. also i guess (from the western stats) that around 2100 of the people that applied to Mac only applied to Mac. well some of those people probably applied to ottawa too. but i don't know, what do you guys think?

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Guest bad hombre

i don't know... i was just assuming that the people that apply to western, toronto, and queen's are all the same so that the remainder (3854-1757) are the ones that don't meet the GPA and MCAT requirements and therefore apply to ottawa and mac. but i could be totally wrong...

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Guest bad hombre

i don't know... i was just assuming that the people that apply to western, toronto, and queen's are all the same so that the remainder (3854-1757) are the ones that don't meet the GPA and MCAT requirements and therefore apply to ottawa and mac. but i could be totally wrong...

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