No hope for med what else is there?

[stinkytofu2020]

I went into Post secondary with a 94% and ended up getting a 68% in first year and 71% in second year

 

I failed 2 classes...both of which were organic chem

 

My pre req for med are mostly super low.

 

Unfortunately for me I keep up getting the raw end of the deal. I.e. I get the TAs that say that my worst is so terrible that they think I should take drugs prior to starting the assignment or that I am seriously sick and need help…all of which was mentioned in front of my whole class. But I can’t blame my problems on others…so probably my work was just not good enough.

 

 

I’ve calculated that no matter how hard I try I will never get an A average. If I get 95% in every class maybe I can get a high B.

 

I guess the ultimate question is that how could someone like me with less than stellar grades still want to get into med. Why would I still want to even try to get into med. I would hardly pass the initial screening since my marks are low. I have extra curricular events but I’m not “hardcore”. I haven’t built a well for children in Mongolia I haven’t created a club. I’ve done things that enjoy.

 

I have never gone clubbing or have had alcohol…it’s not lifestyle that is dragging my marks down.

 

I am trying my hardest and this is pretty much as far as I can get myself.

 

I am currently part of the co-op program at my school. I was originally rejected from the program due to my low uncompetitive academic standing, but I wrote and an email to the coordinator, she granted me an interview…and was accepted in to the program.

 

The interesting thing is the associate dean of my school told me that it was unlikely I would get into co-op or even the science program and I should look at other alternatives. But here I am.

 

 

But obviously I should face reality. Who would want me? But unfortunately, I don’t believe this to be reality.

 

My question is…

 

Is there some school that would want me…not me specifically but some one with an average gpa and hopefully a high mcat score and research experience and extracurricular. Any school. I’m not looking for a great school known for their program. I’m looking for any school anywhere in the world that would give me a chance.

 

Is there even such a school or is it all in my head?

 

I was thinking maybe the Caribbean?

 

 

 

 

Are there programs where I could do something doctor related but maybe not get a doctor degree? I know this is a long shot…not a nurse but something else…maybe go to a 3rd world country and help out doing doctor like things. No pay is fine for me.

 

 

 

 

I would love to be a doctor, but being driven is not enough. I would do anything to be a doctor; I would donate part of my liver, kidney, a lung anything. I would sell out everyone I loved or sell my soul. I would even chop off my own leg if that was the requirement…but obviously drive is not enough. I don’t have marks to represent my determination.

 

I actually looked into joining the army to provide me with experience I needed and maturity and show that I was dedicated to my country…..I would have joined….but unfortunately I have serve for about 9 years…and that’s a bit too long for me.

 

What else is there for people like me? People who dreamed and longed to get into med but by unforeseen and unexplainable circumstances…it probably ______happen

[tooty]

Stinkytofu (you must be asian:cool:),

 

First of all, how are you not able to get into any post-secondary program on earth with a 94% average? What do you mean by "a 94%?"

 

Second, there's still hope for you yet. I think it's in your best interest to go through medical school in Canada. As soon as you go to the US or Caribbean or Ireland or Australia, your chances of coming back are practically zero, not to mention taking all of Canadian licensing exams. Now, how do you get into medical school with bad grades, you ask? The only school that you're in bad shape for is Mac, who calcaulates cumulative averages. Schools like Western, Queens, Ottawa are much more forgiving of a couple of years of bad grades. Western takes your best two years, Queens takes your last two if your cGPA don't cut it (I think?), Ottawa takes your most recent three years. I'm not sure of the distribution of marks, but you might even be competitive for UT after two or three more years of solid grades. So don't give up hope just yet.

 

The only trouble is if you truly tried your hardest and still couldn't earn good grades, chances are 3rd year won't be much better. However, my personal opinion is that anyone who's not retarded can get through university with decent grades. 90% of your grades come from good solid work ethics anyway. I'm willing to bet that you can make some huge improvements in your grades by changing the way you study and the amount you study. If it takes you 16hrs a day of studying to get 90's, then do it. It's easier said than done obviously, but if it's the only way to play the cards you're dealt, then you gotta play it. Also, study smarter, not harder. And don't be afraid to ask for help.

 

If all else fails, find a super easy program at a super easy school where you can earn super high grades and switch! Find a way to get a high GPA. Next items on the list are extracurriculars and the MCAT.

 

If even that fails, then I believe Caribbean/Ireland/Australian schools can accept you. If you want to practice in North America, you'll have to settle for the States. The problem with trying to make it in the States as an international medical graduate is that you're much disadvantaged in competing for popular residency positions. Competition reigns high in the States, but there are still plenty of family and internal medicine spots left over every year. If you want to deal with the high prices, the high competition (all the way through residency), a more business-like approach to practicing medicine, then you can do States. It's my last resort, and it should be yours too.

[Jochi1543]

As soon as you go to the US or Caribbean or Ireland or Australia, your chances of coming back are practically zero, not to mention taking all of Canadian licensing exams.

 

With a 2.3 in first year, 2.7 in the next, and 2Fs in pre-reqs, you can forget about the States, even with a 45 MCAT. Plus the chances are not "zero..." you just need to put in some work and make connections by doing some electives in Canada.

 

 

 

ETA: Caribs are a better option than Australia, etc, because at least you're doing rotations in the US...somewhere in Australia, you don't even get to do that, and then you have to leave the country afterwards, so you can't even hope to practice there.

[Madz25]

First, bad marks in prereq courses looks......bad.

 

You don't need a good average to get into med schools. Many schools look at last 2 years or best 2 years so if you get mostly A's in 3rd and 4th year you still have a shot at those schools (provided your MCAT is up to par).

 

Otherwise, I say try for Caribbean or UK/Australia. I wouldnt waste time/money trying for med in the US because they look at ALL your post-secondary grades and also specifically science grades.

 

Coming back to Canada from Caribbean/UK/Australia is not AS hard as people make it out to be. It's not the easiest thing to do but it's not impossible. Yes, you'll have to write all the Canadian exams --- well so do Canadian grads. You'll be limited in your choice of residency - probably only family medicine or psychiatry.

[cindersley]

Hey Stinky tofu

 

University of Manitoba only gives grades a weighing of 10%. MCAT is 50%. So if you do well in MCAT, then I think you will still have a fair chance. As for extracuriculars, doing things you enjoy and being a sincere person is great, stay that way. But just make sure that at least some of your activities will help you learn more about the medical profession and whether or not you are truly suiteable for it. The hospital volunteering experience doesn't have to be just for CV building.

 

I know you REALLY REALLY WANT TO BE A DOCTOR. But what are the reasons behind that strong desire? If you can figure that out, that'll help you narrow down some other career alternatives. Personally, one of the main reasons that I am drawn to medicine is because it combines science with people work. I like to care for people, but I would also like a profession that allows me to apply more scientific knolwedge/objectivity than say social work. For this reason, I'm also looking at going into teaching (science) or Audiology/speech sciences. Audiology is actually part of the faculty of medicine at UBC, except you don't need to go through the same harrowing applicaiton process. You need to have taken some lingustics/psych courses. When you graduate you will work in hospitals/in your own private practice with patients. These are just two examples, of other worthy, science/people related jobs out there. Keeping my backup plans in mind helped reduce a lot of stress duing my premed years (hopefully this will be my LAST premed year).

 

hope that helped

[tooty]

With a 2.3 in first year, 2.7 in the next, and 2Fs in pre-reqs, you can forget about the States, even with a 45 MCAT. Plus the chances are not "zero..." you just need to put in some work and make connections by doing some electives in Canada.

 

 

 

ETA: Caribs are a better option than Australia, etc, because at least you're doing rotations in the US...somewhere in Australia, you don't even get to do that, and then you have to leave the country afterwards, so you can't even hope to practice there.

 

It's not a simple matter of "just" getting some connections and doing electives so you can waltz right in the next radiology program. Yes, it helps, but you will be up against thousands of IMG's who are all gunning for the same ****ty left-over family spots in rural areas. They don't care if you've written your USMLE's either. You are required to write all of Canada's licensing exams. No, your chances aren't zero --it's about 5% coming back, but it's definitely not worth it while you can match for family spots in the states on an H1B visa and make a decent living as a US permanent resident.

 

"Yes, you'll have to write all the Canadian exams --- well so do Canadian grads. "

 

Yes of course, but Canadian grads don't have to write USMLE step 1 + 2 + MCCEE + MCCQEI + MCCQEII for some bull**** rural family spot. It's always possible to move back after obtaining an MD outside of Canada. But you have to ask yourself is it really worth it?

 

Anyways, we're digressing. Back to the main poster. High GPA = good.

[Jochi1543]

It's not a simple matter of "just" getting some connections and doing electives so you can waltz right in the next radiology program. Yes, it helps, but you will be up against thousands of IMG's who are all gunning for the same ****ty left-over family spots in rural areas.

 

US grads are NOT IMGs, and they are treated on par with Canadian medical graduates - and this is all on the CARMS website. You are obviously mis/uninformed about the US process, so do everyone a favor and either not comment on it or at least do your research before you post about it. I know this thread is not about going to the US, but I don't want people to read it and make all kinds of wrong conclusions based on the things you mentioned.

[Madz25]

 

Yes of course, but Canadian grads don't have to write USMLE step 1 + 2 + MCCEE + MCCQEI + MCCQEII for some bull**** rural family spot. It's always possible to move back after obtaining an MD outside of Canada. But you have to ask yourself is it really worth it?

 

 

I think the OP has made it clear that they would be willing to do anything to get into medicine...so doing a few extra exams shouldnt be a big deal.

 

To the OP: look into how each school calculates GPA, some methods may work in your favour. I've already mentioned the best 2 years/last 2 years method. If you really want medicine, be open to the possibility of studying medicine in the caribbean/UK/Australia.

[Jochi1543]

I should note that the gross assumption that rural family med is "sh!tty" and is somehow reserved for losers is also unacceptable. Some people WANT rural family med. The pay is good and you get to do tons of stuff. And you don't have to be chained to a hospital and deal with the urban cost of living. I just got back from an interview at a top 20 in the US, where I had dinner with a 3rd year MD/PhD student (done with his PhD, 3rd year MD), and while his academic background, step 1 scores, and the ranking of his school make it possible for him to match into things like urology, he actually WANTS to do rural family med. He's going to Alaska in the next few months to do some rotations - sounds much more interesting than radiology to me personally.

[Guest begaster]

"I would sell out everyone I loved or sell my soul."

 

That's pretty ****ed up. Are you trying to get into medicine for the prestige, then? The money? Doesn't seem like you have a genuine desire to help people. But I digress.

 

Queen's will look at your last two years. Western will look at your best two years. Orga is not a prereq for either school. Get your **** in order, find a major you enjoy, and spend the next three years getting good grades and you can still get into medical school. I just hope you're doing it for the right reasons.

[Jochi1543]

"I would sell out everyone I loved or sell my soul."

 

That's pretty ****ed up. Are you trying to get into medicine for the prestige, then? The money? Doesn't seem like you have a genuine desire to help people. But I digress.

.

 

LOL, I think s/he's just exaggerating. See the other part where s/he says s/he will work for no pay.

[Vallinar]

well... if you ace the next two years you're still good for UWO i think, and if you do really well on MCAT and you'll have a shot at DO and carrib schools.

 

Do you have an illness that screwweeing up your grades? b/c to be honest, the fact that you got a 94% in HS says that you have the ability to do well. If its an illness then this would be considered extenuating circumstances, which may be taken into consideration if you do really well for the next two years (maybe do some extra years) and do well on MCAT.

[ploughboy]

I should note that the gross assumption that rural family med is "sh!tty" and is somehow reserved for losers is also unacceptable. Some people WANT rural family med.

 

Hear! Hear!

 

Where else do you get to do everything, and I mean everything, for your patients without any backup or referal to the specialist in diseases of the left elbow?

 

I've worked with some rural family docs who would run circles around most GIM consultants -- docs who could cite EBM trials, sensitivities, specificities and basic biochemistry for the weirdest, most obscure diseases in one breath and then relate to their patients *in their context* with the next breath. Who could relate to the patients so well that they might *gasp* actually take their meds according to schedule or appreciate the severity of their asymptomatic hypertension despite the fact that they've "never been sick a day in their lives", are fiercely independent and hate doctors. And then wander off for a shift in the emergency room. Or spend a morning giving anesthetic in a small-town ER.

 

Of course I'm biased, because I grew up on a farm and the closest town to my home has a population under a hundred, but still...

 

It *really* bothers me when rural docs are viewed as inferior. It bothers me even more when perfectly competent IMGs are shunted into rural practice not because they know and appreciate their patients but because that's the only way they're going to get a billing number. We need to fix the problem at the source. I only wish I knew how.

 

pb

 

PS: Jochi - marry me.

[ChicoMaki]

US grads are NOT IMGs, and they are treated on par with Canadian medical graduates - and this is all on the CARMS website. You are obviously mis/uninformed about the US process, so do everyone a favor and either not comment on it or at least do your research before you post about it. .

 

Do you think you could post the link for this. For some reason, I can't find that info on the CaRMS website

[Jochi1543]

Hear! Hear!

 

Where else do you get to do everything, and I mean everything, for your patients without any backup or referal to the specialist in diseases of the left elbow?

 

 

It *really* bothers me when rural docs are viewed as inferior. It bothers me even more when perfectly competent IMGs are shunted into rural practice not because they know and appreciate their patients but because that's the only way they're going to get a billing number. We need to fix the problem at the source. I only wish I knew how.

 

 

Yeah, here's an anecdote: last year, I was looking for a place to rent, and while on the way to the rental office, I stopped and asked this old fella who was sitting on his porch for directions. Next thing you know, we started chatting, and I asked him about this huge fresh scar going almost through his entire face. He said he had a facial tumor that was starting to interfere with his ability to see and speak/eat, and he spent nearly a year going from one surgeon to another, only to have SEVEN of them refuse to perform the operation due to high risk of nerve damage and subsequent facial paralysis.

 

Then he went to see a rural FP here in the area for something unrelated, and the FP said he'd be willing to perform that procedure and was confident that it was nowhere near as risky as the surgeons had claimed. Anyway, the FP removed the tumor without any complications, so the guy looks totally normal now, and no longer has any speech or eyesight issues, b/c the mass is completely gone. And he kept going on and on about how the FP did the operation in jeans and a cowboy hat, I thought it was hilarious! Anyway, so yeah, the dumb rural FP (sarcasm) turned out to be better at surgery than some of the actual surgeons.

 

 

pb

 

PS: Jochi - marry me.

 

We could, probably. And if you are on the adcom, I'd say even definitely. You are in medical school right now, correct? Where?

[ploughboy]

Ok, so this is a "ploughboy has had a bottle of wine" post. I might not be as diplomatic as I would be other times, but I will speak the truth. You might not like it, but you can be sure that anything I say is the unvarnished perspective of somebody who managed to fool an admission committee into letting him into medical school.

 

Unfortunately for me I keep up getting the raw end of the deal.

 

Deal with it.

 

Sorry to sound so blunt, but anybody who goes through our academic system and *everybody* who gets into medicine has to deal with the carp that comes with undergraduate degrees. Your competition is thriving in spite of or because of their relationship to the academic bureaucracy. Blaming external factors goes a long way to relieving one's frustration at not succeeding -- I don't deny that. But at the end of the day, if you want meds really badly (see below for my perspective on that) you need to learn to play the game. So learn the rules and play the game. Don't blame external factors for your inability to thrive.

 

As a physician you're going to have to deal with an unbelievable amount of bureaucracy and paper-pushing, so get used to it now.

 

 

I’ve calculated that no matter how hard I try I will never get an A average. If I get 95% in every class maybe I can get a high B.

 

I guess the ultimate question is that how could someone like me with less than stellar grades still want to get into med.

 

 

It doesn't matter. My first undergraduate GPA was 3.3 Of course, this was electrical engineering at Waterloo, so I like to think that I'm not completely retarded.

 

If you're really serious about medicine (see below) then you need to understand the requirements of the schools in Canada, the US and (ghod forbid) the Caribean. UWO will look at your best two years. Queens will look at two years of undergrad. Other schools have other criteria, but the point is that if you're really serious about medicine you need to research what schools will look at a subset of your undergraduate marks. It's not my job to tell you what schools look at what metrics. If you're serious enough about medicine to give up part of your body in pursuit of it (see below) then at the very least you can spend a couple of hours looking at the websites of the medical schools in Canada (there are fewer than 20 of them) to understand what you need to do to gain admission.

 

 

I have never gone clubbing or have had alcohol…it’s not lifestyle that is dragging my marks down.

 

 

You're missing out. Seriously. But that's just my opinion.

 

I would love to be a doctor, but being driven is not enough. I would do anything to be a doctor; I would donate part of my liver, kidney, a lung anything. I would sell out everyone I loved or sell my soul. I would even chop off my own leg if that was the requirement…but obviously drive is not enough.

 

 

Dude, you're scaring me. Seriously.

 

Having "MD" behind your name is highly over-rated. *Why* do you want to be a physician so badly? Is it parental pressure? Is it internal pressure? Or do you honestly want to give of yourself to the benefit of others.

 

I'll let you in on a little secret: medicine sucks. Our culture has conditioned people to think that doctors have all the answers, and that we can fix anything. We don't, and we can't. The truth is that the allied health professionals: PT, OT, nursing, social work spend more time with our patients and do more on-the-ground work than we do. We see our patients maybe once a day and we breeze in, ask if they're afebrile and their bowels are moving, write a couple of orders based on our incomplete understanding of the patient's context and they wander off to the ward on the next floor. We've conned the nurses, the physiotherapists, the pharmacists into thinking that because we're doctors we: a) know what's best for the patient and know wtf we're talking about. We don't. I don't think the allied health-care professionals do either, because at the end of the day they really only know the domains they've been trained in. But still: being a physician isn't the only thing you can do, and you probably owe it to yourself to find out what else you can do to help people. Of course, if mommy and daddy will only be happy if you're Dr. Tofu then you've got a problem.

 

 

Seriously -- if I interviewed somebody who said they'd chop off his/her own leg to be an MD, I'd rate that person as being unacceptable to the medicine programme at my school. Why? Because they have no g-d- perspective. Give me a better reason to be an MD than "my whole existence revolves around being a doctor"

 

 

I actually looked into joining the army to provide me with experience I needed and maturity and show that I was dedicated to my country…..I would have joined….but unfortunately I have serve for about 9 years…and that’s a bit too long for me.

 

 

The military is a wonderful option for a subset of people. I have friends and neighbours in the military. Some of my best friends have served their country at a time when the general public didn't appreciate them and thought that a robust martial tradition was somehow...unCanadian . But...(and here's the but)...the miliary is a big deal. Even if you sign up for the reserves (where you don't have a defined period of service), at some level you're committing to die for you comrades and to die for your country. Fancy toys that go "bang" are fun, but think about the big picture and what's important for you.

 

Look, I don't know if I've been any help at all, but as far as I see it your isssues are:

 

1) marks

2) social pressures

3) marks

 

Comments?

 

pb -- not bitter, just drunk

[Jochi1543]

Why? Because they have no g-d- perspective.

 

I like it when you talk dirty.

[ploughboy]

Double post

[Jochi1543]

Yeah, PB, you've got your point across...no need to double-post...maybe it's time to go lie down or have a fatty snack to slow that alcohol absorption...just sayin'...

[Guest begaster]

You basically said everything I wanted to. And probably did it far more eloquently than I could have managed.

 

Five stars.

[Jochi1543]

I would also ask yourself why you are willing to have a leg sawed off, but not serve 9 years in the army (getting paid and all) to be a doctor. That just jumps out at me. LOL.

[ploughboy]

Yeah, PB, you've got your point across...no need to double-post...maybe it's time to go lie down or have a fatty snack to slow that alcohol absorption...just sayin'...

 

Look, it was a mistake.

 

But my matrimonial offer still stands, especially if you're as fit as you claim to be

[Jochi1543]

Look, it was a mistake.

 

But my matrimonial offer still stands, especially if you're as fit as you claim to be

 

No need to put all this pressure on me for my upcoming UWO interview. Why did this comment have to come as I was pondering skipping boxing tonight? *trudges to the YMCA through the dark, cold night*

[Guest begaster]

Jochi's a girl?

[Jochi1543]

Jochi's a girl?

 

PB BLEW MY COVER!