Advice Please.. Am I a competitive applicant without writing the MCAT and prereqs?

[bobspencer1]

Hi all,

 

I have had 4 + years of research experience (started the summer before my first year of university). I have been involved in cancer research for 4 + years and another type of health research that doesn't involve bench work for 3 years. I have exceptional volunteer experience including founding 2 clubs at my school and peer tutoring. I also worked in my school's residence. My GPA will probably be 3.8 (give or take) on a 4.3 scale. The only schools in which I am interested are McMaster and NOSM because I am not interested in writing the MCAT or taking prerequisite courses - I am choosing to solely take the courses in which I am most interested. I have been awarded several scholarships as well as a research grant. Despite the fact that I don't have an incredibly high GPA and I am not interested in taking the MCAT, is there a point in setting my sights on med school? I will certainly try - I am just hoping to get some insight as to what my odds are because this is all so new to me.

 

Thanks to anyone who reads this,

 

Spencer

[Vallinar]

Hi all,

 

I have had 4 + years of research experience (started the summer before my first year of university). I have been involved in cancer research for 4 + years and another type of health research that doesn't involve bench work for 3 years. I have exceptional volunteer experience including founding 2 clubs at my school and peer tutoring. I also worked in my school's residence. My GPA will probably be 3.8 (give or take) on a 4.3 scale. The only schools in which I am interested are McMaster and NOSM because I am not interested in writing the MCAT or taking prerequisite courses - I am choosing to solely take the courses in which I am most interested. I have been awarded several scholarships as well as a research grant. Despite the fact that I don't have an incredibly high GPA and I am not interested in taking the MCAT, is there a point in setting my sights on med school? I will certainly try - I am just hoping to get some insight as to what my odds are because this is all so new to me.

 

Thanks to anyone who reads this,

 

Spencer

 

Well you can only apply to three schools in ON and if you're not from norther ontario then don't even bother applying to NOSM.

 

IMO I don't think you really have the drive to get into med school since you don't want to maximize your chances (take the MCAT and take prereqs).

 

That being said, you certainly have a chance at MAc and OTTawa.

[bobspencer1]

Hey there Vallinar,

 

Thanks a lot for your response. It's not that I don't have the drive to get into med school. Rather, I'd prefer to be as happy as can be taking the courses that most interest me. In high school, I excelled in chemistry and physics, however my passion is in studying a more hollistic approach to health... I LOVE studying health as opposed to basic sciences.

 

Thanks again.

[Julie]

Hey there Vallinar,

 

Thanks a lot for your response. It's not that I don't have the drive to get into med school. Rather, I'd prefer to be as happy as can be taking the courses that most interest me. In high school, I excelled in chemistry and physics, however my passion is in studying a more hollistic approach to health... I LOVE studying health as opposed to basic sciences.

 

Thanks again.

 

I can understand that, but please keep in mind that you will be required to study quite a bit of basic sciences in med school, and probably a bunch of other stuff that doesn't interest you that much... You have to be sure you're willing to make many sacrifices, & pre-reqs is just the tip of the iceberg. I personally regret not taking more science classes prior to starting med school (I had Ottawa's pre-reqs, but not much else)... It's not that it was necessary, I totally get by without them, but wow, would I ever use those microbiology courses now! Plus, most people in my class have taken them, so I have to catch up...

[Satsuma]

You can also apply to Ottawa without the MCAT.

When I applied I didn't write the MCAT either and didn't apply to NOSM.

 

Obviously your chances increase the more schools you apply to. I personally was willing to take the chance and it worked out for me.

 

Good luck

[Kyleh]

I really can't answer your question, though, I have a question for you! How did you get involved in research the summer before your first year of undergrad?

[Kyleh]

What is your undergrad background? Are you completing a BSc, BA?

[bobspencer1]

Hey there,

 

I won a scholarship and my background is a BHSc.

[Guest begaster]

Isn't the GPA requirement for Ottawa around 3.85 (out of 4, not 4.3) for anyone who's not from a few nearby regions?

 

You really should write the MCAT.

[The Law]

Last year, for English stream Ontario residents who were not from a rural area - the cutoff was 3.85/4. Have you taken general bio, chem, physics, and orgo? If so - I highly suggest writing the MCAT. Putting your eggs all in one basket doesn't seem to work very well here. Just thought I'd add - you can take those courses, and if you're not in school, the MCAT is offered many times throughout the year... so if you wanted to take them over summer and then write the MCAT after, you definitely could.

[bobspencer1]

Hi again!

 

I've only taken biology at the university level. I've also taken other biological science courses like pathology, anatomy, physiology, etc. I've taken chemistry and physics at the high school level. I definitely don't think I'm in any shape to write the MCAT unfortunately!

 

Thanks everyone for all your help...I'm really appreciating it.

[bobspencer1]

Hey fut,

 

Sorry I actually said I DON'T have an incredibly high GPA I definitely realize I am not a star among all you geniuses! I have a huge interest in rural medicine and if I ever become a doctor, I intend on practicing up north. My province of residence is Ontario too. Unfortunately I'm not from a rural area although my mother's family is - not sure whether that is relevant.

 

Thanks so much.

[avenir001]

Physics 12 is more than enuf for the mcat...physiology is awesome...at this point, a first-year chemistry course is probably all you need for the mcat...I'd say, do a verbal reasoning section to see how u do cuz that's the section that takes a lot of time and practice to improve on...some ppl are naturally good at it...if you are one of them, then all u need to do is get a kaplan comprehensive review book to review the sciences and do some practice tests and you should be ready...the mcat may be easier than you think...confront the enemy before u run away, and u may be pleasantly surprised. good luck.

[Kyleh]

bobspencer1, I sent you a private message (pm)

[TonesRN]

Sorry I actually said I DON'T have an incredibly high GPA I definitely realize I am not a star among all you geniuses! I have a huge interest in rural medicine and if I ever become a doctor, I intend on practicing up north. My province of residence is Ontario too. Unfortunately I'm not from a rural area although my mother's family is - not sure whether that is relevant.

 

You don't necessarily need a stellar GPA to get into Mac. The admission process is highly subjective and the answers to you ABS (5 questions asked by Mac on the application) are given a very large weighting. That being said, having a high GPA can help with the chances for interview, but I would focus on your ABS submission. Being an Ontario resident will also help your chances at Mac as 90% of interview positions are given to these candidates.

 

I don't think that the rural residence of your mother's family will help in your application to NOSM. They are more interested in YOU having spent time in rural settings and demonstrating your desired to practice rural medicine. Best of luck with your application

[blinknoodle]

Hi Spencer,

 

Welcome to the forums. Please don't double-post. I have merged your two threads.

 

It is impossible to gauge your chances at medical school. In a certain sense, it is almost like a lottery - and the more tickets you have, if you are a good candidate, there are more chances the lottery will be swayed your way. Certainly, you only need one interview to get an admission, and this works for people not willing to complete pre-reqs, write the MCAT, etc. This is why McMaster receives so many applicants - anyone who ever thought of wanting to go to medical school can apply.

 

Good luck with your applications, Spencer.

[tooty]

Hey there Vallinar,

 

Thanks a lot for your response. It's not that I don't have the drive to get into med school. Rather, I'd prefer to be as happy as can be taking the courses that most interest me. In high school, I excelled in chemistry and physics, however my passion is in studying a more hollistic approach to health... I LOVE studying health as opposed to basic sciences.

 

Thanks again.

 

I don't understand Spencer.

 

You are saying you will be unhappy doing work to in prereqs and the MCAT. So you have the drive to get into med school, you just don't want to do more work?

[Madz25]

Hey there Vallinar,

 

Thanks a lot for your response. It's not that I don't have the drive to get into med school. Rather, I'd prefer to be as happy as can be taking the courses that most interest me. In high school, I excelled in chemistry and physics, however my passion is in studying a more hollistic approach to health... I LOVE studying health as opposed to basic sciences.

 

Thanks again.

 

If you like the hollistic approach, maybe you are better suited for DO schools in the US. There may be issues regarding coming back to Canada. I don't know much about DO schools. Anyway, just an idea ...it may help you avoid doing the "unwanted" courses.

[DrJaneDoe]

there were a few posts here toward's spencer, bascially telling him he has no drive for medicine because he doesn't have the intention or want to write the MCAT or take the usual prereqs and I find that unfair. Yes, it does increase his chances if he does, but most of the posts are coming off as though this guy doesn't deserve to get in because he doesn't have the 'drive'. Just because you write the MCAT and fulfill the prereqs doesn't make you a better candidate in terms of wanting to truly become a doctor. I know a lot of people in med school who followed the book and did everything required but they're in med school for all the wrong reasons. Also, look at mac, yes half the people are either from the Health sci program at Mac but a lot of them did a BA at university and have no, absolutely no science background, does that make them poor candidates for wanting to become a physician? It's sad that people on here are judging someone else's intentions or desire, when I'm pretty sure half of them are entering meds for all the wrong reasons.

 

At least this guy is being honest, he said he excelled in the hard sciences, but doesn't take much interest in them. Honesty is hard to come by when it comes to med hopefuls.

 

I also agree that it is worthwhile to take science courses that are not prereqs such as microbiology, virology etc. because it might help you in med school but honestly it's med school, you can get by with minimal knowledge in those fields, plus it's really hard to flunk out of med school unless you do something extreme. Once you get in, you're in, even if you were one of those people who fell through the cracks of the application process, and really aren't a great candidate, it's very hard for you to flunk out, as I mentioned before.

 

Spencer, don't let a few sour responses discourage you from applying, apply to schools that don't have prereqs or require the mcats, if you don't get in, then try writing the mcats and increase your chances.

 

good luck with whatever choice you make

[TonesRN]

there were a few posts here toward's spencer, bascially telling him he has no drive for medicine because he doesn't have the intention or want to write the MCAT or take the usual prereqs and I find that unfair. Yes, it does increase his chances if he does, but most of the posts are coming off as though this guy doesn't deserve to get in because he doesn't have the 'drive'. Just because you write the MCAT and fulfill the prereqs doesn't make you a better candidate in terms of wanting to truly become a doctor. I know a lot of people in med school who followed the book and did everything required but they're in med school for all the wrong reasons. Also, look at mac, yes half the people are either from the Health sci program at Mac but a lot of them did a BA at university and have no, absolutely no science background, does that make them poor candidates for wanting to become a physician? It's sad that people on here are judging someone else's intentions or desire, when I'm pretty sure half of them are entering meds for all the wrong reasons.

 

At least this guy is being honest, he said he excelled in the hard sciences, but doesn't take much interest in them. Honesty is hard to come by when it comes to med hopefuls.

 

I also agree that it is worthwhile to take science courses that are not prereqs such as microbiology, virology etc. because it might help you in med school but honestly it's med school, you can get by with minimal knowledge in those fields, plus it's really hard to flunk out of med school unless you do something extreme. Once you get in, you're in, even if you were one of those people who fell through the cracks of the application process, and really aren't a great candidate, it's very hard for you to flunk out, as I mentioned before.

 

Spencer, don't let a few sour responses discourage you from applying, apply to schools that don't have prereqs or require the mcats, if you don't get in, then try writing the mcats and increase your chances.

 

good luck with whatever choice you make

 

Well said DrJaneDoe, I agree with your assessment completely. Good luck to all applicants, regardless of their route or pathway to medicine.

[Sergie]

there were a few posts here toward's spencer, bascially telling him he has no drive for medicine because he doesn't have the intention or want to write the MCAT or take the usual prereqs and I find that unfair. Yes, it does increase his chances if he does, but most of the posts are coming off as though this guy doesn't deserve to get in because he doesn't have the 'drive'. Just because you write the MCAT and fulfill the prereqs doesn't make you a better candidate in terms of wanting to truly become a doctor. I know a lot of people in med school who followed the book and did everything required but they're in med school for all the wrong reasons. Also, look at mac, yes half the people are either from the Health sci program at Mac but a lot of them did a BA at university and have no, absolutely no science background, does that make them poor candidates for wanting to become a physician? It's sad that people on here are judging someone else's intentions or desire, when I'm pretty sure half of them are entering meds for all the wrong reasons.

 

At least this guy is being honest, he said he excelled in the hard sciences, but doesn't take much interest in them. Honesty is hard to come by when it comes to med hopefuls.

 

I also agree that it is worthwhile to take science courses that are not prereqs such as microbiology, virology etc. because it might help you in med school but honestly it's med school, you can get by with minimal knowledge in those fields, plus it's really hard to flunk out of med school unless you do something extreme. Once you get in, you're in, even if you were one of those people who fell through the cracks of the application process, and really aren't a great candidate, it's very hard for you to flunk out, as I mentioned before.

 

Spencer, don't let a few sour responses discourage you from applying, apply to schools that don't have prereqs or require the mcats, if you don't get in, then try writing the mcats and increase your chances.

 

good luck with whatever choice you make

 

BRAVO DrJaneDoe!

I had a couple of private conversation with people who got in and I asked them "Why medicine?".. Hmm The answers were smth like: " Are you crazy? Don't you know how many zeroooos you are on each paycheck?"

The other popular answer (honest one) was - It is cool, it is trendy...

More? there were variation like " my mother/father/neighbor is a doctor"

But the most interesting one I got talking to a Kaplan teacher. She said: My two degrees were not about studying smth that interested me, but about finding the way to something more prestigious than just being a Mine Engineer (first degree) or a geologist (second - in order to improve first GPA). That is why she received her second degree, wrote MCAT and took prereqs. Yes, she finally decided on going to a med school. But why?

Fine, now she is a first-year med student. I would not ask her to help especially if it is smth very delicate. Wwrong person in a wrong place.

So, go to medicine only if you believe you must be there. In this case it really does not make any difference how you get in. It's up to you to increase your chances or apply the way you are. If you are a person of integrity - this matters.

Indifference and careerism are necessary only to some extend but not the most precious assets though.

Best of luck, Spencer.

[Guest begaster]

Uh, I would very much say that if he has no drive to increase his chances ten-fold, he has less drive than the grand majority of applicants. Without the MCAT, the number of schools you can apply to drops to, what, a tenth? Less, if you include the States as well. Someone who can't be bothered to write the MCAT clearly doesn't want to get into medical school as much as the rest of us - if he did, he'd be doing what we're doing and maximizing his chances any way he can. I mean, I would have much preferred to spend my summer hanging out with friends, but I didn't. I spent it sitting in front of a book, learning, so I could do well on the bloody test. So did a lot of people around here. I'd say it's fair to say that if we're willing to make more sacrifices, we want it more.

 

That's not to say he has no drive. I'm just saying that if he wants to go to medical school, he needs to get a grip and do his damnedest to get there. There's no half-assing it once you're accepted, so why is it permissible to half-ass it now?

[Sergie]

Uh, I would very much say that if he has no drive to increase his chances ten-fold, he has less drive than the grand majority of applicants. Without the MCAT, the number of schools you can apply to drops to, what, a tenth? Less, if you include the States as well. Someone who can't be bothered to write the MCAT clearly doesn't want to get into medical school as much as the rest of us - if he did, he'd be doing what we're doing and maximizing his chances any way he can. I mean, I would have much preferred to spend my summer hanging out with friends, but I didn't. I spent it sitting in front of a book, learning, so I could do well on the bloody test. So did a lot of people around here. I'd say it's fair to say that if we're willing to make more sacrifices, we want it more.

 

That's not to say he has no drive. I'm just saying that if he wants to go to medical school, he needs to get a grip and do his damnedest to get there. There's no half-assing it once you're accepted, so why is it permissible to half-ass it now?

 

Hi begaster!

I totally understand what you are talking about.

But there is a saying: "Everyone choses his own feat to accomplish" (Do not remember, Chinees maybe).

If you are ready to make more sacrifices - good for you. May be you will have more chances. Why everyone has to? Why do you think it indicates anything good or bad? How to measure compassion, someone's will or dedication? By the number of exams? In this case meds should admit only foreign doctors and PhDs ) - they passed too many already...

As to me, medicine is not a reward, this is a life style, this is everyone's choice. Only those who belong there, but not those who deserve because of GPAs or MCATs, should do this work.

What does it mean "we want it more"? Even if so, what does it change? Are you better applicant now or you will be a better student later? How do you know this? You want to reinsure yourself having more chances, do it faster, be more certain - that is closer probably?

"...why is it permissible to half-ass it now?" - Why not? If it's possible, if there is a shorter way. If spencer does not want to proof what is obvious... Why wouldn't you? Do you have too much of spare time or an extra-life?

Sacrifices should be reasonable. Med admission process in Canada barely is.

One of the recent med graduates told me that he was very surprised when he discovered that an IMG from Europe was better prepared for the resedency than many of his classmates, even though this person did not take neither MCATs nor possessed another non-medical degree.

North American med schools are not the only ones that graduate good doctors, neither the best ones. I would say that their PR is better - this is the difference.

Sorry if it hurts, I've just seen many people from various backgrounds and therefore have different point of view. This is mine, and yours could contradict it. Sorry again and good luck on everything.

 

PS: Not that long ago the best medicine in the world ( and I think it still is) was in Israel. I've never been to Israel but those who lived/worked there or got a treatment and could compare usually say that there is HUGE difference in favor of Israelies. Most doctors there are from Europe and Russia. What would you say? And another fact to ponder over: Medical turism FROM Canada.

[Julie]

I don't think people are really disagreeing here, just speaking of different things. It's true that you need to be there for the right reasons. You need to belong in med school and not be there just for the paycheck or respect you think it might elicit from others. And it's true that taking the MCAT or orgo isn't going to make you much of a better doctor.

 

The other thing to consider, though, is that even though people don't usually flunk out of med school without trying to, there are many sacrifices to make in order to finish. It's not that medical school is easy, it's just that people who make it there are determined to do whatever it takes. I doubt very much that most clerks who are on their 80th hour of the week feel like staying for another 10 every time. Same thing with paperwork. I'm sure it's not the most exciting part of the day of most docs, but sometimes you just have to do it, because as a whole you love the work. This, I think, is what worried some people on this board. By being unwilling to take pre-reqs & mcat because he thought he wouldn't enjoy it even if it might compromise his career, it brought questions about his willingness to make other sacrifices later. Of course, there's nothing wrong with giving it a try, & if it doesn't work then the OP can do all that's necessary to improve the odds

 

The other thing is that, even though people with science degrees keep telling me there's barely any biochem or molecular bio in med school, coming from a non-trad background, I find there's quite a bit! Studying health involves much of this, and if I really disliked these subjects I think it would have put a damper on the whole med experience. A holistic aproach to health incorporates basic sciences as much as all other aspects.

[rescuer]

Research, great, ECs, great, but that won't tell you whether or not you want to do medicine.

 

Many of us are absolutely sure about this but when asked if we had any exposure to the actual field we shy away.

 

Listen, go volunteer at your local hospital. Talk to docs about their lives and it will give you a better idea if it's something you want to do. Sounds like you're pretty driven, which is great -- but essentially, you need to know for YOU whether YOU want to do medicine. Yeah, with those stats, you have great odds of acceptance. But -- at the end of the day, it's whether or not you feel fulfilled.

 

there's my two cents.