Western, Research Project or Advanced Lab?

[THX]

So, I'm getting set for UWO's intent to register and I'm torn between choosing a 4th year research project in physiology (phys degree) and the advanced medical science course (gen med sci degree). But I have no idea what either one really entails, especially the latter.

 

Does anyone have any experiences to share or advice to offer?

[The Law]

The medical science one is not actually a research project. You cycle between different labs and learn technique and stuff, but it isn't actually a specific project that you write a thesis on.

[Vallinar]

The medical science one is not actually a research project. You cycle between different labs and learn technique and stuff, but it isn't actually a specific project that you write a thesis on.

 

med scie would be alot easeir sicne you don't to do a lab project or write a theseis.

 

But if you don't get inot med school that pretty much nothing you can do with a med sci degrere.

[mrgreek]

Ok, let me tell you how it is, as I am currently in the program. The physiology degree has the thesis component of the course and conducting your own semi-quasi experiment. This greatly helps you for research, however I assume (even though you may want to be a clinician scientist) that you want to go into medicine, and this doesn't really help much. This degree however, is the best degree you could want if you are pursueing physiology masters, as most 4th year students that end up doing a masters degree continue with the same professor after and usually continue their research a little more in depth.

However, if you don't want to do physiology after 4th year (masters or whatnot) but into another discipline like pathology or anatomy, both streams are equally good. The advantage of the med sci stream is to get a taste of everything, I've taken every pathology, anatomy, microbiology and immunology course at western because of it.

Don't take Vallinar's word for it, cause he/she clearly doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

 

As for Vallinar claiming it is easiest, I find absurd, to base a judgement on something being easier than something else, you have to have taken both to judge, thats philosophy 101, maybe psychology 101 too. Tying this into what LAW said, that IS how it used to be run. Now the lab has changed because of one and only one issue, as told to us by the associate dean, that all the students from the previous year complained because of how things were graded, and how 'tough' they were on them. The class average was too low for them or something.

 

So this year, the program has changed. And I assume it will stay this way for the next. Being in the program, I find it ironic, because the degree is targeted to premeds, and allow them to take any course they want essentially. However, the lab that definse the Honors degree, which I will describe soon, is 100% designed to take you into graduate school. I think our associate dean has forced us that line down our throat more than once. I don't know why, the averages people have in that class, make me look like a fool.

 

The class is broken down into 4 sections.

First Semester: Break it down into thirds. First third is an anatomy module, I don't know why they call it Anatomy, its mostly learning how to do research on the computer side, and to make posters and the like. The second third is the Micro&Immuno module, which is taught by a professor to look at an experiment. The pupose of this module is get you to learn techniques, PCR and all that mumbo jumbo. The third third, is the Biochemistry module. Same gig as the M&I, experiment, to teach you other techniques for graduate school.

Second Semester: All one experiment. It includes working with rats, we are doing a cholesterol/drug experiment and to see the differences and blah blah controls blah blah. So we do all that stuff, that would entail an experiment, do ultrasounds on the rat (doing that in 2 days) I think to see the vessels? sizes of them? not sure yet... So after that we dissect them, see what diet of cholesterol did what, what drug did what, blah blah, write a huge lab report at the end.

[THX]

Ok, let me tell you how it is, as I am currently in the program. The physiology degree has the thesis component of the course and conducting your own semi-quasi experiment. This greatly helps you for research, however I assume (even though you may want to be a clinician scientist) that you want to go into medicine, and this doesn't really help much. This degree however, is the best degree you could want if you are pursueing physiology masters, as most 4th year students that end up doing a masters degree continue with the same professor after and usually continue their research a little more in depth.

However, if you don't want to do physiology after 4th year (masters or whatnot) but into another discipline like pathology or anatomy, both streams are equally good. The advantage of the med sci stream is to get a taste of everything, I've taken every pathology, anatomy, microbiology and immunology course at western because of it.

Don't take Vallinar's word for it, cause he/she clearly doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

 

As for Vallinar claiming it is easiest, I find absurd, to base a judgement on something being easier than something else, you have to have taken both to judge, thats philosophy 101, maybe psychology 101 too. Tying this into what LAW said, that IS how it used to be run. Now the lab has changed because of one and only one issue, as told to us by the associate dean, that all the students from the previous year complained because of how things were graded, and how 'tough' they were on them. The class average was too low for them or something.

 

So this year, the program has changed. And I assume it will stay this way for the next. Being in the program, I find it ironic, because the degree is targeted to premeds, and allow them to take any course they want essentially. However, the lab that definse the Honors degree, which I will describe soon, is 100% designed to take you into graduate school. I think our associate dean has forced us that line down our throat more than once. I don't know why, the averages people have in that class, make me look like a fool.

 

The class is broken down into 4 sections.

First Semester: Break it down into thirds. First third is an anatomy module, I don't know why they call it Anatomy, its mostly learning how to do research on the computer side, and to make posters and the like. The second third is the Micro&Immuno module, which is taught by a professor to look at an experiment. The pupose of this module is get you to learn techniques, PCR and all that mumbo jumbo. The third third, is the Biochemistry module. Same gig as the M&I, experiment, to teach you other techniques for graduate school.

Second Semester: All one experiment. It includes working with rats, we are doing a cholesterol/drug experiment and to see the differences and blah blah controls blah blah. So we do all that stuff, that would entail an experiment, do ultrasounds on the rat (doing that in 2 days) I think to see the vessels? sizes of them? not sure yet... So after that we dissect them, see what diet of cholesterol did what, what drug did what, blah blah, write a huge lab report at the end.

Thanks MrGreek, that was very helpful. How are we graded exactly, is it mostly through presentations and lab reports, or is there also a lab performance component?

 

Would you recommend the med sci course? Have you found it interesting?

[mrgreek]

Grading is broken down into the modules. 10% per Anatomy, 20% per M&I, 20% per Biochem, and 50% for the second semester lab thing. The grades in the Anatomy is based on small assignments (3 of them). The M&I and Biochem are based on a lab report for each one. So one lab report worth 20% of overall mark in M&I section, and another for Biochem. The second semester stuff, I can't remember, and it was broken down to us 6 days ago. From what I remember that 50%, now picture it 100% of it. 40% is based on the final lab report, 10% participation, 50% of it broken down through other assignments. Not to sure, my memory sucks, and I haven't dont it all yet.

 

Would I recommend it? do I find it interesting? Well, I don't like research in general. Before I came into this program, I volunteered and did some reseach in a lab before that, I loafed around really watching others... I found that i despised it, and I went away from the more mainstream route (like your physiology idea). For this actual class, I guess its fair to say, I like it, cause its the lesser of two evils. Just thought I'd point out, just because I don't like it, I respect those who do it, cause I can't. I like more clinical research that some doctors do, rather than the basic science research that I am moreso involved in now.

Hope that helps

[rogerroger]

I am in the phys project right now working out of Robarts. I LOVE IT!!!! It has been one of the best things I have done at Western. I highly recommend you look at this option. If you get the right supervisor it isn't terribly difficult either. The trick is joining a newly established lab. If you do this you get more responsibility and get to do lots of interesting things. Also in this project you get to do more of your own thing over a long period of time (8 months). This is kinda neat because you can tweak protocol etc. how you would like.

 

Time wise I do about 15hrs a week because I simply enjoy it. But I could easily get away with doing 8hrs a week. There is no formal lecture portion to the course. The time commitment is nothing big because there is literally zero studying. Maybe some review type stuff here and there but nothing like a traditional lecture based class.

 

It isn't only research. There are seminar presentations which may or may not be related to your lab work. I disagree with those that might think this route is mainly for grad studies. Many of the supervisors are MD/PhDs and mine is quite understanding of the premed thing.

 

There are lots if horror stories about doing a thesis. But I think there are more happy ppl then upset ones in reality. For me I kinda look at my thesis as the final synthesis of the last four years of my undergraduate degree into one project, utilizing cell bio, general physiology, chemistry, genetics, neurophys, cell phys, histology, etc.

 

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

[lll]

i am in the honors M & I module rite now...at one place it says u need min. 70% in biochem 380a and in another place it says ppl in honors 3rd directly get into it after calculated the weighted average...i'm confused and worried...how do they judge whether u r in or not...i can ask a counsellor but i cant wait till tuesday..

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