Guest Buffy Pool Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 I've heard this argument before, and it rests upon the fact that there's a higher percentage of smokers and obese people who feed off of our welfare system than who contribute to society. Thus when they die earlier, they cost us less money in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoithinkyouare Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Sounds like the sentiments of the Canadian Bioethicist Eike Kluge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest begaster Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 And the only pertinent argument for a sin tax goes right down the drain. Vive la liberte! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 And the only pertinent argument for a sin tax goes right down the drain. Vive la liberte! not really... they still take up services and take up spots while people who don't engage in such habits are forced to wait for such smokers and fatasses that are ahead in the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest begaster Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Good to see the empathy in a potential doctor in regards to those "fatasses." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Also, as they mention at the end of the article, the study fails to consider the difference in economic productivity. Taxpayers pay, on average, for the healthcare they consume. If smokers/obese people die younger, they may not works as long, and therefore would not have contributed as much in taxes during their lifetime. So maybe healthy people consume more but also pay more into the system... It's too bad they didn't do the math, I would have been curious to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest begaster Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 While this may be the case, both smokers and the obese will be working for most of their lives (assuming they live to, say, 55). If they don't live past retirement, it's probably still cheaper for the system - they won't draw a pension. I'm not saying I'd recommend it, but I am glad that this argument for sin taxes has been dismantled. I really dislike the government mandating morality when it comes to people's harmless vices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Good to see the empathy in a potential doctor in regards to those "fatasses." I don't have empathy for Fatasses who chooose to thier owe fate. If you want to be fat and are too lazy to do anything about then you deserve critisism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 While this may be the case, both smokers and the obese will be working for most of their lives (assuming they live to, say, 55). If they don't live past retirement, it's probably still cheaper for the system - they won't draw a pension. I'm not saying I'd recommend it, but I am glad that this argument for sin taxes has been dismantled. I really dislike the government mandating morality when it comes to people's harmless vices. it hasn't been dismantled at all. Sokers and fat ppl still contributes largely to the waiting lsit problem in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdom_tooth Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Good to see the empathy in a potential doctor in regards to those "fatasses." my thoughts exactly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdom_tooth Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I don't have empathy for Fatasses who chooose to thier owe fate. If you want to be fat and are too lazy to do anything about then you deserve critisism. you're going to make an awesome doctor someday:rolleyes: not all "fatasses" are lazy, some people are morbidly obese due to genetic factors. So I guess the next time a "fatass" walks into the doctor's office, the doctor should just skip examining him/her and instead just lecture him/her on not being lazy and hopefully everything will just work out. btw, you're not criticizing, what you're doing is name-calling and it isn't very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest begaster Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Well, hell, if I'm healthier than you (and I exercise regularly, eat healthy, and am in excellent shape), does that mean I get to attack you for being lazy? I've always found it astounding the amount of hate people have for the overweight. As if it that person's body is any of their concern. We're now being told that these people actually take less out of the system than if they were to live to 90 due to taking care of themselves. So those wait-times and problems Vallinar is blah-blah-blahing about are moot points. If they took care of themselves, as per this study, they would contribute to more wait-times and more health problems in the long-run. Ergo, they'd be a bigger burden on the system. People have vices. I do, you do, everyone does. If it's not harmful to other people, it's not any of your damned business as to what other people choose to do with their bodies. I will never understand why most folks seem to have such trouble accepting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdom_tooth Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 YEA! *POUNDS FIST IN THE AIR* i agree with begaster lol I know I probably shouldn't say this because people on here will hunt me down and eat me, but here goes According to Vallinar's rationale, then we shouldn't help poor people, that includes taking away welfare rights, because it's their own fault they're poor. They should get off their lazy asses and find a job. And if they start begging on the streets, when we rich folk with our fancy jobs pass by them, then we should kick them in their face, then we should then continue by spitting on them, all in the name of criticism. Okay I got carried away with the last part, but I'm just exaggerating my sarcasm. I wish it were that simple, poor people getting jobs leads to rich happy people and we all live happily ever after, except for those "fatasses" they don't deserve to apart of my fairytale. But povery, like obesity, is a very convoluted issue. There is no quick fix nor a single solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 you're going to make an awesome doctor someday:rolleyes: not all "fatasses" are lazy, some people are morbidly obese due to genetic factors. So I guess the next time a "fatass" walks into the doctor's office, the doctor should just skip examining him/her and instead just lecture him/her on not being lazy and hopefully everything will just work out. btw, you're not criticizing, what you're doing is name-calling and it isn't very nice. obviosly you didn't read my post. I said i have no empathy for fatasses that CHOOSE their own fate (i'm DO have sympathy for those that are fat due to conditions and genetics.. ALTHOUGH even people with "fat genetics" CAN change their weight if they try harder). If i had a patient that was fat b/c he'she eat crap and lived a sedentary lifestyle, i would not jsut kick them out lol. I would treat them and would make them aware of they surely already know (ie that being fat is bad and that exersie and and diet can make them lose weight). That wouldn't be enought o change their lifestyle , which is why i advocate "sin taxes". This may provide incentive for them to change, but more importantly some extra money comes into the ehalth care system. Fatass is really an insult/name calling imo. Its a accurate assesment of a fat persons physical structure. They DO have fat asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Well, hell, if I'm healthier than you (and I exercise regularly, eat healthy, and am in excellent shape), does that mean I get to attack you for being lazy? I've always found it astounding the amount of hate people have for the overweight. As if it that person's body is any of their concern. We're now being told that these people actually take less out of the system than if they were to live to 90 due to taking care of themselves. So those wait-times and problems Vallinar is blah-blah-blahing about are moot points. If they took care of themselves, as per this study, they would contribute to more wait-times and more health problems in the long-run. Ergo, they'd be a bigger burden on the system. People have vices. I do, you do, everyone does. If it's not harmful to other people, it's not any of your damned business as to what other people choose to do with their bodies. I will never understand why most folks seem to have such trouble accepting that. wrong.... the obese/smokers ADD to the wait times andthey are taking up services TODAY. This is different from them costing less over the next 50 years because they die sooner. I don't know whats so hard to understand about that. I wouldn't care waht "other ppl do with their bodies" if it didn't affect ME. But it does, because doctor services are being strayed away from people that are ill because of factors oput of their power in order to treat people who are "leaching off of the system" so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 YEA! *POUNDS FIST IN THE AIR* i agree with begaster lol I know I probably shouldn't say this because people on here will hunt me down and eat me, but here goes According to Vallinar's rationale, then we shouldn't help poor people, that includes taking away welfare rights, because it's their own fault they're poor. They should get off their lazy asses and find a job. And if they start begging on the streets, when we rich folk with our fancy jobs pass by them, then we should kick them in their face, then we should then continue by spitting on them, all in the name of criticism. Okay I got carried away with the last part, but I'm just exaggerating my sarcasm. I wish it were that simple, poor people getting jobs leads to rich happy people and we all live happily ever after, except for those "fatasses" they don't deserve to apart of my fairytale. But povery, like obesity, is a very convoluted issue. There is no quick fix nor a single solution. lo terrible analogy with the poor ppl. and i'm not saying we SHOULDN't help them. See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 obviosly you didn't read my post. I said i have no empathy for fatasses that CHOOSE their own fate. How do you feel about knee and hip replacements for 40-year-old marathon runners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdom_tooth Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 lo terrible analogy with the poor ppl. and i'm not saying we SHOULDN't help them. See above. I never implied that you weren't saying not to help them, I'm just saying the way you're going about isn't nice. Is someone more likely to change their lifestyle ie. eating habits, exercise habits, if you call them lazy and a fatass, or are they more likely to comply if you show a little more compassion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I never implied that you weren't saying not to help them, I'm just saying the way you're going about isn't nice. Is someone more likely to change their lifestyle ie. eating habits, exercise habits, if you call them lazy and a fatass, or are they more likely to comply if you show a little more compassion... i'm not actually like that in real life lol.. i don't get really mad when i see fat ppl and start calling them names and acting like a buthead. I keep my thoughts to myself, but i do get annoyed when i see fat ppl at mcdonalds order greasy burgers, extra large frees and then a DIET coke. Yea ike the diet coke makes it all ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 How do you feel about knee and hip replacements for 40-year-old marathon runners? Marathon running is beneficial to overall health... being obese is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdom_tooth Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 obviosly you didn't read my post. I said i have no empathy for fatasses that CHOOSE their own fate (i'm DO have sympathy for those that are fat due to conditions and genetics.. ALTHOUGH even people with "fat genetics" CAN change their weight if they try harder). If i had a patient that was fat b/c he'she eat crap and lived a sedentary lifestyle, i would not jsut kick them out lol. I would treat them and would make them aware of they surely already know (ie that being fat is bad and that exersie and and diet can make them lose weight). That wouldn't be enought o change their lifestyle , which is why i advocate "sin taxes". This may provide incentive for them to change, but more importantly some extra money comes into the ehalth care system. Fatass is really an insult/name calling imo. Its a accurate assesment of a fat persons physical structure. They DO have fat asses. so I guess you should deny someone with skin cancer treatment because it's they're fault they went to tanning beds. I believe the correct term is overweight, but you've obviously made up your mind no sense in fighting with you about it I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I keep my thoughts to myself, but i do get annoyed when i see fat ppl at mcdonalds order greasy burgers, extra large frees and then a DIET coke. Yea ike the diet coke makes it all ok Why, should they ONLY eat sugary greasy crap at ALL times? I say, good for them for not getting a regular Coke and the 300 calories of sugar that'd come with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdom_tooth Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 i'm not actually like that in real life lol.. i don't get really mad when i see fat ppl and start calling them names and acting like a buthead. I keep my thoughts to myself, but i do get annoyed when i see fat ppl at mcdonalds order greasy burgers, extra large frees and then a DIET coke. Yea ike the diet coke makes it all ok lol at the last part there are a lot of people out there who feel the same way that you do. But they fail to realize that a lot of these obese people do want help, they have problems that need to be dealt with, whether its mental or physical. The point is that most people in society aren't health care workers, so for them to think that way, although it isn't right, it won't have any harm. But when a policy maker or a healthcare professional has that mindset then it becomes a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallinar Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Why, should they ONLY eat sugary greasy crap at ALL times? I say, good for them for not getting a regular Coke and the 300 calories of sugar that'd come with that. no, i'm not disagreeing that the diet coke is a movement is the right direction. But it gives them a false sense of accomplishment and secruty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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