U of T verus Western for undergrad?

[Stargirl]

Can anyone tell me which university is better for getting into medical school, U of T or University of Western Ontario?

 

I have heard from a few students that U of T is very challenging academically, therefore, it's difficult to achieve high Gpa's. If there's anyone who is attending U of T or Western for the Life/Health Sciences program, could you tell me what your university life is like so far?

 

Also, the theory is that which university you graduated from doesn't influence your acceptance into medical school, is this really true? Since some believe that an 85% is comparable to a 90-95% at other universities.

 

Thanks!!

[Asclepius]

Can anyone tell me which university is better for getting into medical school, U of T or University of Western Ontario?

 

I have heard from a few students that U of T is very challenging academically, therefore, it's difficult to achieve high Gpa's. If there's anyone who is attending U of T or Western for the Life/Health Sciences program, could you tell me what your university life is like so far?

 

Also, the theory is that which university you graduated from doesn't influence your acceptance into medical school, is this really true? Since some believe that an 85% is comparable to a 90-95% at other universities.

 

Thanks!!

 

For the question in bold, it is true in Canada. I don't go to either of those schools so I can't answer all you questions, but check out this thread which is very similar to yours:

 

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26230

[jhkoreacanada]

Hey.. I am currently in 1st year U of T life science and I am thinking of transferring to Western. Well, I felt like U of T life science was a living hell and so did all of my friends. Just to give you an idea, the last question on our calculus test is 8% of the entire test and the question read "This is a very hard question and will be marked strictly". The prof who wrote the test simply told everyone to don't even try since it's very difficult. Well, it wasn't like the rest of the test was too easy.

 

I feel like U of T is very stingy on part marks, so unless you get the whole question correct, you'll lose a lot of marks. I felt all year that profs are there to screw you over rather than trying hard to teach you.

 

I personally don't recommend U of T St.George to anyone. But I have heard that the Scarborough campus is much better.

[human instinct]

Hey.. I am currently in 1st year U of T life science and I am thinking of transferring to Western. Well, I felt like U of T life science was a living hell and so did all of my friends. Just to give you an idea, the last question on our calculus test is 8% of the entire test and the question read "This is a very hard question and will be marked strictly". The prof who wrote the test simply told everyone to don't even try since it's very difficult. Well, it wasn't like the rest of the test was too easy.

 

I feel like U of T is very stingy on part marks, so unless you get the whole question correct, you'll lose a lot of marks. I felt all year that profs are there to screw you over rather than trying hard to teach you.

 

I personally don't recommend U of T St.George to anyone. But I have heard that the Scarborough campus is much better.

 

I second that... I am currently in third yr at UTM Life Sciences. The first 2 yrs have been terrible. After your 2 yrs, class sizes are reduced so the courses seem to be a lot more focused and smooth.

[Peppermint Tea]

I am currently a 3rd year Western undergrad in the BMsc (Bachelor of Medical Sciences) stream. I believe that as a Western student, I have had more time to pursue other interests and hobbies. Not only do these ec's enrich my undergraduate education, but they also look great for medical school/job applications.

 

I'm happy that I don't have to worry constantly about marks and school, like U of T students may. Furthermore, I feel that although the U of T curriculum is very thorough, its students may learn more than they necessarily need.

 

Overall I like the Western system. It's a great balance between good academics and a nice school atmosphere. I believe the material we learn is probably less challenging than the U of T curriculum, but at the same time, Western has a fairly good reputation and high quality of education. If I had to chose everything again, I'd pick Western.

 

This is just my 2 cents -everyone has different priorities, learning styles, and personalities of course.

[sherry]

I'm a second year life sci student at U of T St. George. U of T's hard, but I think a lot of the comments about its difficulty compared to other universities are a little bit exaggerated. This has been said plenty of times in this forum, but no one can ever really compare two programs because they haven't gone through both. From what I've heard from some of my friends, some of my courses at U of T seem easier than theirs. There's going to be easy and hard courses in every university. U of T life sci is a rigorous program, but it's by no means impossible. I think as long as you study what you like, then you'll do well.

 

I personally love the program that I'm in and I don't regret coming to U of T. Keep in mind that not everyone at U of T is miserable ! and I'm not a genius...seriously not. you just have to fine-tune your study habits to do well, like in any other university.

[schnauzr]

As peppermint said, it really depends on your own personality and how that fits in with the school.

 

UofT tends to have, as many mentioned, vigorous academic courses, and some students may learn a great deal from this. They may find the schoolwork challenging and rewarding. This also means though that it will take a great deal of time management and perhaps sacrifice to make time to pursue other activities.

 

On the other hand, in Western Ontario for example, it seems like the academic aspect is less of a hurdle (I'm not saying anything about the quality of the school), and so the students could have more time learning outside the class, volunteering or club activities.

 

It's what you want from the university experience that should be in focus, whether it is academic pursuit or balance of life and school.

[rogerroger]

Hands down its Western. Heck, in second year we had like 5 UofT transfers into my program at Western.

 

However, this doesnt mean academically things are a joke either. The BSc/BMSc entrance cutoff is over 85%. Western also has a solid research community compared to many schools.

 

However for med school its UofT all the way over Western IMHO. UofT has more $$$ more hospitals more research etc. etc. This is why UofT is my first choice when it comes to actual medical school. Ranking wise, the med school is one of the best in all of North America. If I was applying to university the first time I would aim elsewhere with my fingers crossed for getting into UofT for med down the road.

[futuredoc]

Perhaps you should try Dalhousie University? A tad more easy going than those schools, and you can actually get to know your profs (my first year biology prof teaches 1000 students and he actually knows me lol- beat that Western and Toronto ). Classes actually shrink in second year too!

[futuredoc]

Hahahahahahaha Dalhousie has silenced them all!

[goose]

woot woot dal!

[Orchid]

I think it's safe to say though... no matter how you defend it.

 

U of T st george is a HORRIBLE choice for UNDERGRAD for someone seriously considering applying to medical school later... its hard, lots of work, and the grades you get aren't even good.

 

I've heard this first hand from numerous people.

 

U of T is excellent for graduate and professional schools I'm sure, but gotta be rough on the undergrad from what I keep hearing.

[MedPen]

McGill University baby!

 

I have a class where we are only 16 students and another one where we are 19. It's kinda...awesome!

[Macster]

Don't go to U of T. Not fond of undergrad at U of T, having gone through 3 years of it.

 

Go to Mac Health Sci. I have 4 friends over there, and they adore their program.

 

Yes, yes we do.

 

Mac Health Sci is amazing-- lots of academic freedom, enough electives to explore absolutely anything you want to, dedicated time for research in both third and fourth years, great student body, an office staff that loves the students, a challenging inquiry program, lots of exposure to anatomy/physiology (with access to a full anatomy lab), exposure to the principles of evidence-based medicine (at the very place it was invented), courses in health policy, a brand new health sciences library, a decent campus (once you get past the ugly hospital).

 

I could go on. . .

 

The inquiry program takes a little getting used to, but by second year it all makes sense.

[human instinct]

Yes, yes we do.

 

Mac Health Sci is amazing-- lots of academic freedom, enough electives to explore absolutely anything you want to, dedicated time for research in both third and fourth years, great student body, an office staff that loves the students, a challenging inquiry program, lots of exposure to anatomy/physiology (with access to a full anatomy lab), exposure to the principles of evidence-based medicine (at the very place it was invented), courses in health policy, a brand new health sciences library, a decent campus (once you get past the ugly hospital).

 

I could go on. . .

 

The inquiry program takes a little getting used to, but by second year it all makes sense.

 

Wow...that sounds awesome.

[register]

mac always being different

 

inventing their own curriculum, making up their own interviews, and then forcing everyone to be like them

[PhoenixFlare500]

I think U of T undergrad is like one of those love/hate relationships that gets on your nerves sometimes. When you see a crap mark on your test, or when you see yourself stressing over exams, you tell yourself you wish you've never gone to this school. But at the same time, with all those amazing research opportunities, several good profs, you feel like wow, this place is pretty cool.

 

So it's up to you. I personally loved first year, loved second year, hated third year, so all in all it was the up side of alright. I have friends who get 90s plus in other schools, and they treat it like it's no big deal, but at U of T, on the rare occasion I get a 90+, I jump for a joy, because I do think it's hard to get high marks here, but when you do, you feel like it's worth all the effort and more importantly, it's all yours to keep.

 

How much do you think the worse grades/more time spent compensating for them so less time for ECs compared to other schools would impact a person's chances at getting into med school?

[lostintime]

How much do you think the worse grades/more time spent compensating for them so less time for ECs compared to other schools would impact a person's chances at getting into med school?

 

The million dollar question....

[redribbon]

Just go to whatever school fits you best. all the opinions here should be taken with a grain of salt, doesn't necessarily mean it applies to other ppl.

[Stargirl]

Thanks for everyone's comments!

 

Like I posted before, I'm in my last year of high school. I'm still considering U of T, despite all the warnings about how much work it's going to be. My high school in London is known for its academics (London Central Secondary), and the real struggle is, we take all eight courses all year long. At times it can get pretty hectic, but I've managed a 90+ average and some EC's. So I'm wondering if U of T is a challenge I should take on, then transfer if necessary... (The what doesn't kill me will make me stronger ideal...)

Is it fairly easy to transfer?

 

For anyone that praised U of T, can you tell me, if you don't mind:

-how many hours of h/w per week

-how many all nighters do you pull, how late do you go to bed

-what's your relative average before U of T, and after

-how often do you do extra-curricular etc.

 

Any replies would be helpful! :)

 

P.S. I am still waiting for Mac to accept/reject me. I'll definitely go to Mac if i get in, but I hear Health Sci is really competitive, since only 160 students are accepted.

[jhkoreacanada]

hey!! I totally understand that you are up for the challenges in U of T. In fact, that's what I have said all along too. Well, there certainly ARE people that genuinely strive in University! You could definitely be one of them. And some people that stay in rez seem to enjoy the campus life very much.

 

But just as an example, I will tell you something about our past organic chemistry test. They gave us this question with four answer boxes to fill (It was drawing the chemical structure). The answer turned out to require only one of the boxes. People that have filled out more than one, obviously lost a lot of marks even if they had the right structure on the answer sheet. People have told me that U of T didn't do such a brutal thing in the past years. And it's only recently that this kind of thing has happened.

 

On our last chem test, I was able to score 80+. But then my close friend from highschool got 39%. Just as a reminder, the class average before the mark adjustment was 35%. Even if you were to do well, You definitely have added stress seeing all the other people do so poorly.. If I had gotten a very low mark and my friend got a high mark, then I don't think I can necessarily be "happy" for them. And that's kind of what seems to happen here in some instances at 1st year life sci.

 

 

If you really think you could do well here, then come. There's a chance that you could be one of the few that do great in U of T. But then again, if someone that was really close to me wanted to come to U of T St.George (Such as my siblings), I would do whatever I can to prevent them from coming to U of T science. (Humanity is amazing here though)

 

 

I really wish you got into MacMaster Health Sci so that you could avoid U of T for undergrad science. I heard Mac Health Sci is an awesome program!!

[Vlad]

It's quite possible to do well at UofT in Life Sci, even in programs like Human Bio and Biochem. But you have to be very dedicated and know how to choose your courses properly. If you overload, you will kiss your GPA goodbye starting in second year (when you start to encounter lab courses that are combined with non-highschool theory). Also, while all courses are looked at the same on paper (0.5 credits or 1.0 credits), they certainly are not equal in reality. It really pays to know people who have experience with UofT courses and profs.

 

If you're smart and know how to make connections, it is possible to do well and get good ECs. As for all-nighters, I'm doing one right now and it's exam season. Hours of homework per day? That varies. The more you can put in, the better off you will be come exams. It comes down to "how much do you want to put in?". What kind of grades will you get? That depends on what courses you take, with which profs, and in what combination. Some profs like to challenge students (read: torture) more than others. While some have gotten fired over this before, most are fine as long as they keep their class averages between 60 and 70 % and have a small minority getting As. And this applies for requisite and elective courses equally.

 

I went into UofT with an A for my high-school average, I'm coming out with about the same grade less change. My advice for you would be, regardless of where you go, to know when to cut yourself loose if things start going wrong during any one of your undergrad semesters. I've had many friends try to push themselves too far, only to fall far below the GPA cutoffs - even for grad programs.

[hastin11]

Dont listen to the U of T haters.

 

You do not-so-great in 1st year, but everyone's marks shoot WAY up after that. Im finishing 3rd year and havent gotten a mark below 80 since 1st year (and Imnot that smart, ~84 average in an Ontario high school)

 

I also have a steady gf, volunteer in a lab, and work in Oshawa (1.5 hours away) for 8 hours a week.

 

The pre-med doomsday talk is rediculous.

 

p.s. im in neuroscience, so its not THAT much easier then most other programs

[hastin11]

And to the above poster, I do on average 3-4 hours of hw a night. (And, obviously, non-stop hw the week of exams, as in ~14 hrs a day, but I would expect that at any real school)

[Vlad]

Dont listen to the U of T haters.

 

You do not-so-great in 1st year, but everyone's marks shoot WAY up after that. Im finishing 3rd year and havent gotten a mark below 80 since 1st year (and Imnot that smart, ~84 average in an Ontario high school)

 

I also have a steady gf, volunteer in a lab, and work in Oshawa (1.5 hours away) for 8 hours a week.

 

The pre-med doomsday talk is rediculous.

 

p.s. im in neuroscience, so its not THAT much easier then most other programs

 

I think it's silly to tell people to ignore bad reviews. Just because you are having an okay time in UofT, doesn't mean that most people are. The average of courses is not 80 (which is a 3.7 GPA), it's closer to 60-70 (that's a 2.7-3.3 GPA). I'm glad that neuroscience is working out for you, but a) it doesn't work out for everybody, not everybody takes neuroscience, and c) not everybody gets the same profs for every course. YMMV.

 

What you get in undergrad determines, largely, whether or not you can get into a medical school - regardless of your true academic abilities. Even if you ace the MCATs (which is possible) and great references/ECs, a bad GPA will be the weight that sinks you. So actually it is pretty important to be informed of worst case scenarios. That way students will be more informed and more careful.

 

Oh, and first year is a piece of cake compared to second and third in biochem.