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Md/phd


Zakaqel

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Do MD/PhD applicants get considered for regular admissions? What are the admission statistics in MD/PhD program? Is an MD/PhD really worth 6-10 years of hard strenuous work (I’ve heard of stories where MD/PhD students are still working on finishing their degree while their MD classmates have already begun teaching at medical schools)?

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Is an MD/PhD really worth 6-10 years of hard strenuous work (I’ve heard of stories where MD/PhD students are still working on finishing their degree while their MD classmates have already begun teaching at medical schools)?

 

wtf? obviously if you want the PhD, it'd be worth it. If you don't want the PhD, just do the MD.

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wtf? obviously if you want the PhD, it'd be worth it. If you don't want the PhD, just do the MD.

 

Well, if you really wanted the PhD then shouldn't you do it by itself? Technically, this is a huge problem today with all the hype about education. Just like when you spend 4 years doing useless crap in undergrad which you could have skipped and started learning in medical school. Shouldn’t we have a system like the UK system, where you go to medical school right after high school? What’s up with everyone wanting to do everything at the same time? They have a bunch of JD/MD, MBA/MD and a lot of other useless combinations of degrees. Sadly, we spend too much time trying to generalize our knowledge, forgetting about when we are going to use it.

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is the md/PhD more competitive? I used to think so but it seems like people would rather just have the MD? anyone else have an informed say?

 

 

The md/PhD program is more competitive because there are very few spots in the very few canadian schools that offer this combined program. For example, Western only takes 3-5 students per year (leaning towards the 3).

 

But then again, there are fewer applicants per spot, so the odds ratio does look favourable. However, that small pool of applicants going for this program probably have (if not need) tons of of research experience, and the ones who do get into the program won't be the ones who are using the MD/PhD route as the back door to MD, but rather are truly willing to make this commitment because its what they really want to do with their career.

 

 

If thats not you (I know its not me! ) , I wouldn't apply to the MD/PhD route because youre going to have a hard time explaining at the interview why not just MD or just PhD.

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The md/PhD program is more competitive because there are very few spots in the very few canadian schools that offer this combined program. For example, Western only takes 3-5 students per year (leaning towards the 3).

 

But then again, there are fewer applicants per spot, so the odds ratio does look favourable. However, that small pool of applicants going for this program probably have (if not need) tons of of research experience, and the ones who do get into the program won't be the ones who are using the MD/PhD route as the back door to MD, but rather are truly willing to make this commitment because its what they really want to do with their career.

 

 

If thats not you (I know its not me! ) , I wouldn't apply to the MD/PhD route because youre going to have a hard time explaining at the interview why not just MD or just PhD.

 

Yeah see I feel I would LOVE the md/phd program. Yeah its a lot of work but i think its the type I'd enjoy. Its just that I never bothered applying because i didn't feel competitive, so I thought maybe I can apply after *hopefully* getting into first year meds and applying from there because I'd have more research under my belt.

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Do MD/PhD applicants get considered for regular admissions? What are the admission statistics in MD/PhD program? Is an MD/PhD really worth 6-10 years of hard strenuous work (I’ve heard of stories where MD/PhD students are still working on finishing their degree while their MD classmates have already begun teaching at medical schools)?
This depends on the school you're applying to -- the application process differs at different schools. At U of T, MD/PhD applicants are considered for the regular MD program and there are definitely individuals who are accepted to the MD program but not to the MD/PhD program. Whether it's worth it depends how much you want to get a PhD.
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Well, if you really wanted the PhD then shouldn't you do it by itself? Technically, this is a huge problem today with all the hype about education. Just like when you spend 4 years doing useless crap in undergrad which you could have skipped and started learning in medical school. Shouldn’t we have a system like the UK system, where you go to medical school right after high school? What’s up with everyone wanting to do everything at the same time? They have a bunch of JD/MD, MBA/MD and a lot of other useless combinations of degrees. Sadly, we spend too much time trying to generalize our knowledge, forgetting about when we are going to use it.

 

This is the most retarded post I've read in a very long time.

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There's so much an undergraduate degree offers beyond the information itself.

 

Importantly maturation of the applicant in an academic setting, not to mention developing a strong sense of critical thinking.....

 

I would argue that high school kids aren't always ready for even an undergraduate degree coming out of high-school. I would opt to bring OAC back and then allow fast-tracking if the individual is particularly keen.

 

Taking kids into medicine out of high-school would not only degrade the quality of our health care but lead to much a higher dropout rate of matriculants that only learn they can't handle the program once they get there.....

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Taking kids into medicine out of high-school would not only degrade the quality of our health care but lead to much a higher dropout rate of matriculants that only learn they can't handle the program once they get there.....

 

Exactly, but there a lot of kids who would be able to do it. 90% of the World doesn't have a medical system like that of Canada and the US. In fact, if you look at British medical education, it is 1000 times better than that of Canada/US.

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For MD/PHD i would say if you do plan to do it...this program has been in running in US for couple years...so if you wanna do it try looking into the option of goin to the states because i mac started this a year ago and the prog at western is pretty new too...i would rather go for an experienced school...as in the world of medicine today ...the practical side is well supported by the research stuff which we dont see and there are some physicians who like the research rather than practicing or there are ppl who like both ...so according the rep that came to my school from western...ppl in that prog kinda split there work...do research and practical work at the same time ....so if thats what u wanna do...go for it man,,.but its a bit longer than MD...so make sure u do ur research before getting into it...gl with that:)

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I don't think forcing an undergrad degree at a time when there's a shortage of doctors is particularly smart.

 

And making people go through Masters and Ph.D's is even more stupid.

 

I agree...it's not like the doctors from other countries are all immature and incapable. They're doing fine. There's tons of mature high schoolers who can handle it. You just lengthen the duration of the study from 4 years to like 6.

 

The only reason they require undergrad now is because it's so freaking competitive...and why UT med has like 25% grad students.

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Well I don't know about other people but for me I want to get PhD/MD because I think it is the best way for me to integrate two fields of study that I am extremely interested in: in my case medical science and medicine.

 

AND HERE CoMES A LONG RANT

 

When you are physician, you are experiencing something which PhD students or professors are not readily exposed to... You "see" clinical problems and symptoms of patient. You are trying to identify medical problems and find solution from previous knowledge that would work best to fix or manage your patient's symptoms/conditions/diseases etc.

 

When you are a scientist, you have a highly indepth knowledge on basic science. Also many medical scientist have to design controlled experiments both in vitro and in vivo models, using cells or animals, that would let them test out certain scientific hypothesis.

 

Now if you are an MD, are you not going to perform your job b/c you don't have PhD of course not!, and as a medical scientist (PhD) is your work going to suffer b/c you don't have formal training in medicine? hell no!!

 

BUT is there a good communication between two fields? not neccesarily....and it is helpful for someone to see same thing in multiple points of view.

 

For example: patient with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) clinic often complains about medical symptoms that would signal poor peripheral circulation - hmm.. thats interesting, but of course first thing a physician will try to do is to try to fix the poor circulation itself and find out underlying cause (is there a heart problem ? etc). As a scientist, when you see this you might be thinking hey poor circulation may equal hypoxia and we know in scientific literature that HIF (hypoxia inducible factor) is related to inflammation...can HIF be causing IBD symptoms? do people with IBD have high level of HIF?? and if so what does level of HIF mean to disease progression?? etc...

 

So person with MD and PhD in medical science might be thinking both of these....and perphaps investigate this problem more in detail.

 

YES this is loooong but the key point is MD/PhD = integration of knowledge. Maybe if you have PhD in economics and MD, then perphaps you might be the best person to find out how closure of one hospital impact the economic development of the city etc....

 

Lastly, Zakaqel it is not useless getting MD/MBA, MD/PhD or other combinational degrees.....BUT if you are the type of person that did Msc or PhD just to get into medical school and after you get your MD you toss your graduate education into the gutter THEN that is a true waste......

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Lastly, Zakaqel it is not useless getting MD/MBA, MD/PhD or other combinational degrees.....BUT if you are the type of person that did Msc or PhD just to get into medical school and after you get your MD you toss your graduate education into the gutter THEN that is a true waste......

 

How do you figure? My graduate education has been in applied math and biostatistics - in fact I just wrote an exam which consisted of nothing other than analyses of medical data. All of this will be directly relevant to practice and training in medicine, for the precise reason that knowledge of experimental design and statistical analysis are of crucial interest, even if only to be able to interpret and understand studies fully.

 

If doing a combined degree is useful, then doing graduate (or undergrad!) degrees before an MD is no less relevant. I don't really see your point.

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How do you figure? My graduate education has been in applied math and biostatistics - in fact I just wrote an exam which consisted of nothing other than analyses of medical data. All of this will be directly relevant to practice and training in medicine, for the precise reason that knowledge of experimental design and statistical analysis are of crucial interest, even if only to be able to interpret and understand studies fully.

 

If doing a combined degree is useful, then doing graduate (or undergrad!) degrees before an MD is no less relevant. I don't really see your point.

 

Yes, and mind you I never said doing a seperate degree (grad education first then MD) is a bad thing either....In fact one can easily finish PhD then try to join MD, as mentioned before. But I wanted to say that I don't believe getting into combinational program is USELESS, especially if that is what you want to do in the first place!

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