medwannabe08 Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Im getting quite a bit of conflicting information here. Obviously Canada is my ultimate goal, but I see a lot of people applying to the US as well. However, there are equal number if not more people who are applying to Carrib / Ireland / Australia. So I'm wondering, is going to Carrib/Aus/Ireland a better idea than US? Because I mean, if going to the US route was so great, more people would be doing it correct? Is the US more costly than the other options? Or do the other ooptions have a more "established" route back to Canada, whatever that might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDude Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 The detour is precisely due to competition levels. I can't say much about Australia or Ireland but I did some research on Carribean schools and it's much easier to be accepted there than in North America. The reason people seem to be heading to foreign medical schools (especially US citizens/residents) is because it is easier to match in your residency of interest in US. However, although the foreign route doesn't completely rule out the possibility of matching in competitive residencies it does make it much harder so most end up matching to family medicine, internal medicine, etc. There is valuable information on http://www.valuemd.com about foreign medical schools, along with specific school threads which show what is the matching rate of each school to US schools and in which specialities. It is a big no no to head to foreign countries if you wish to return to Canada for practice (rates of successfully matching are 5-6% or maybe even lower). My family doc suggested Ireland to make the process easier but she didn't offer any sound evidence, nor I looked into it. More people do not go to US because they don't get accepted. The costs of US medical schools (excluding top-tier schools or maybe middle-tier ones as well) is on par with reputable Carribean schools (SGU, Ross), so I doubt money is a major factor. The only "established" route to practice in Canada is to attend a medical school here. Hope it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Try to avoid going to Carib/ overseas schools at all costs! Carib schools are notorious for their lack of student support. Also, they are expensive. Furthermore, lets say during your time at a Carib school you discover you have an aptitude for plastic surgery. But you'll never be a plastic surgeon, because you go to a Carib school, and in the US match, Carib schools are considered bottom of the barrel. Stay domestic. All Canadian schools are more or less equal quality. However, some emphasize didactic lectures whereas others emphasize group learning. If you have your pick, go to a school that teaches in methods you prefer. I'd also say pick NOMS as your last choice, since they lack the connections you'd make in clerkship to match there to anything besides FP. If you can't get into a Can school, go to the US. Of course, anyone and their dog can open a college in the states if they have enough money. Thus, many of the med schools in the US are sketchy. Consult Studentdoctornetwork to get opinions on schools you consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDude Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 US has 17000 medical school graduates each year and they have 24000 residency spots. The remaining seats are filled by IMG and FMGs. But you get what no one else wants in a position to choose (most of the time, unless you have amazing USMLEs). But if FM is fine with you and you really want to do medicine then it is relatively safe to go to Caribbean schools (mainly SGU and Ross). There are hurdles and you are on your own but not getting accepted in Canada/US is not the end of the world (well it is but just for the sake of optimism). Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Baller Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 How do you pre-meds think about D.O. option for Canadians. I know that its even harder for them come back to Canada and practice compared to US MD schools but what if they want to practice in states. Also what do you think about the stigma attached to D.O.s when compared to MDs and how they are looked upon. Any thoughts on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABbound Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 I'd also say pick NOMS as your last choice, since they lack the connections you'd make in clerkship to match there to anything besides FP. Do you think that the clerkship at NOSM is entirely FP? ??? ummm, no. There are residency positions in all major specialities, as well a student is open to do electives across the country at any institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Do you think that the clerkship at NOSM is entirely FP? ??? ummm, no. There are residency positions in all major specialities, as well a student is open to do electives across the country at any institution. Hi, according to the CaRMS website, NOMS only offers residency positions in FP and community medicine. If one desires to make connections during clerkship in fields other than those listed above, then NOMS will make that far more difficult since no other residency positions are offered at NOMS. NOMS is a school that caters to students who are apt to practice rural family medicine, according to its mission statement. Thus, students who think they'd be open to doing something other than rural FP or com. med. should opt to attend another medical school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABbound Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Hi, according to the CaRMS website, NOMS only offers residency positions in FP and community medicine. If one desires to make connections during clerkship in fields other than those listed above, then NOMS will make that far more difficult since no other residency positions are offered at NOMS. NOMS is a school that caters to students who are apt to practice rural family medicine, according to its mission statement. Thus, students who think they'd be open to doing something other than rural FP or com. med. should opt to attend another medical school. NOSM hasn't graduated its first class yet. The charter class graduates 2009. There will be residency positions in all major specialities: http://www.normed.ca/education/pgme/default.aspx?id=346&ekmensel=c580fa7b_36_0_346_3 Currently these programs are accredited through McMaster, though new residency positions are being established as NOSM graduates move on to residency and as NOSM assumes the lead of residency programs in northern Ontario. The schools mission statement reflects its goals of training physicians for the "north"... this includes physicians of all major specialities (medical generalists) not just family medicine. http://www.normed.ca/about_us/general.aspx?id=298 http://www.normed.ca/about_us/default.aspx?id=68&ekmensel=c580fa7b_16_0_68_1 Sorry for the redirection of this thread. In any case it is important that you research multiple sources to answer your questions and not just forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted May 4, 2008 Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 NOSM hasn't graduated its first class yet. The charter class graduates 2009. There will be residency positions in all major specialities: http://www.normed.ca/education/pgme/default.aspx?id=346&ekmensel=c580fa7b_36_0_346_3 From the NOMS website: ""Specialty training delivered through NOSM includes General Surgery, Internal Medicine, Anesthesiology, Pediatrics, Orthopedic Surgery, Obstetrics/Gynecology and Psychiatry which are all accredited by McMaster University and/or the University of Ottawa. Community Medicine is also offered as a NOSM-accredited specialty program."" This residency list is far more succinct than at most, if not all, other schools in Canada, which isn't surprising since its a new school. Thus, if one desires to do a residency in something other than the above listed, then they should go somewhere else. The schools mission statement reflects its goals of training physicians for the "north"... this includes physicians of all major specialities (medical generalists) not just family medicine. Again, from the NOMS website: ""NOSM, while preparing students for the full range of clinical disciplines in medicine, will focus on training general practitioners of medicine, family doctors and specialists, who remain generalists across their specialties. NOSM will develop physicians able to practice and engage in research anywhere in the world but who have a particular understanding of people in northern and remote settings."" So, although the training of NOMS will be on par with any domestic medical school, the focus will be on training physicians that will be able to work in rural settings. This is where logic sets in: rural, northern communities do not commonly have academic institutions. Thus, if one desires to work academically, they should go elsewhere. I'm not trashing on NOMS. It has a purpose and it is not dancing around its purpose: to train doctors for rural communities. This is essential and its about time there's a medical school that prepares its future graduates for rural medicine. However, not everyone wants to be a rural doctor, so applicants should think long and hard before attending NOMS if they're more attracted to urban environments or a future in academic medicine, or if the career they want isn't on the residency list offered at NOMS. Sorry for the redirection of this thread. In any case it is important that you research multiple sources to answer your questions and not just forums. In any case its important that you actually understand what you read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medwannabe08 Posted May 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2008 Hey, this NOSM thing is great and all..... but back to topic: what I'm trying to figure out is which is the best route? Going to the US or elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajsuliman Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 I have a question to add on to this topic; is it possible to come back to Canada after completing medical school and / or residency in the U.S? I keep hearing yes and no's so if someone could clear that up it would be helpful! My family doc says I could come back AFTER completing a medical school in a foreign country(he did med school in Egypt),but I'll have to sit down for a few tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerroger Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Ok, here is the deal. Going abroad is less ideal only because it is more challenging to find a residency spot in Canada. Currently ~20% of Canadian citizens who go abroad match in Canada for a residency position. These positions are usually in FM or another less competitive specialty. Yet, keep two things in mind. If one goes to med school in Australia, Ireland, or another Western country your chances might be slightly greater than 20%. For instance RCSI in Ireland had all of its Canadian students match in Canada this year. Your chances are much better in the States for matching if you go abroad because there is a surplus of residency positions. If you go abroad you need to ask yourself these questions: 1) Can I live outside of Canada for >5 years? 2) Are you willing to pay 2x the Canadian tuition? 3) Can you see yourself being happy doing FM etc. 4) Are you ok with potentially practicing in the USA? If the answer to all these questions are "yes" then going overseas might be viable for you. Consider that the Caribbean schools are designed for one to pass the USMLE and to practice in the USA. Thus, some believe that Ireland and Australia are better options for returning to Canada for this reason. Yet, SGU in Grenada had a very impressive match list in 2008. UofT picked up a bunch of SGU alumni this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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