Any Chance?

[APHL]

Hi, I am a third year applicant OOP. My gpa is 3.835 by the Ontario Application system standard. Two Years in research in two different labs and hospital volunteering plus some community involvement, first aid, and MCAT to be written.

 

Do you have a chance to at least get an interview at UT? or should i even bother applying this year and wait one more year?

 

Please give some advice. thanks!

[Dante]

I'd say you have a chance, but nobody's a shoe-in for UofT. The process is subjective, but you are by no means out of the running. Apply for sure, but remember that you'll need 9/9/9 mcat or else don't bother with the application.

[In_Valid]

Hi, I am a third year applicant OOP. My gpa is 3.835 by the Ontario Application system standard. Two Years in research in two different labs and hospital volunteering plus some community involvement, first aid, and MCAT to be written.

 

Do you have a chance to at least get an interview at UT? or should i even bother applying this year and wait one more year?

 

Please give some advice. thanks!

 

Not to knock you down but I don't think you will have much of a chance this year. I think they prefer students who have full degrees.

 

For example, I applied out of my fourth year (I didn't have my degree, so for all intents and purposes I was a third year applicant).

 

My stats were:

 

3.96 GPA (U of T scale) (3.86 OMSAS scale)

37P (15 PS/9 VR/13 BS/ P WR)

 

4 summers of research

1 NSERC

A fair bit of community involvement.

 

I got an interview but was put on the low priorty waitlist and was rejected in early June.

 

Don't get me wrong, they do take some 3rd year applicants. I know someone who got in. But you have to have UBER UBER stats.

[1234]

everyone has a chance to get into UofT. The thing is, you have to be very meticulous with every part of the application. Not only do you have to have great stats (GPA, MCAT), you have to have meaningful ECs - but most importantly ( and the thing that many people forget) is the value of extremely good references. Find individuals who really know you well ( your strengths, flaws, morality,etc), but also find individuals that really understand the field of medicine and can relate your characteristics to why you would succeed in medicine in a thoughtful and intellectual manner.

 

I think many people forget the value of third-party evaluation because most schools dont put any value on references. From intuition alone, I believe that - to UofT - reference letters are the most important factor in differentiating you from the other applicants (assuming you have a reasonably strong GPA and MCAT).

 

Oh yeah, the essay is very very very important. Take your time on it. By the time it is submitted, most people's essay has changed tremendously from the initial draft.

[1234]

by the way,

 

i did get into UofT as a fourth year first-time applicant.

 

stats:

 

GPA: 3.98 (3.96 OMSAS)

MCAT: 40Q

ECs: lots of sports, music, community work, fundraising, some research (but nothing special - this is MD, not a PhD degree - dont get hung up on the fact that you dont have great research).

REFERENCES: MD (known for 17 years), MD-PhD (known for 4 years), MD-PhD (known for 3 years) - hence, they knew me well and could intellectually relate my characteristics to those necessary to succeed in medicine.

ESSAY: It took 4 days from start to finish, but I wasnt happy with it once I submitted - spend a lot of time on it and be satisfied with it before you submit

[rogerroger]

by the way,

 

i did get into UofT as a fourth year first-time applicant.

 

REFERENCES: MD (known for 17 years), MD-PhD (known for 4 years), MD-PhD (known for 3 years) - hence, they knew me well and could intellectually relate my characteristics to those necessary to succeed in medicine.

 

 

Excellent post 1234!

 

I couldn't agree more with 1234's advice in terms of the value of refrences. Everyone seems to focus on the statement yet few seem to place the same emphasis on the refrences.

 

I only want to emphasize something 1234 already commented on. Your refrences should know you!

 

I suggest that you should place more value on the capacity a reference knows you rather than the position or title of the reference. If you have known a MD-PhD for awhile and feel they can fully comment on your abilities than by all means that individual would likely be a strong reference. However, if you have known a community member in a similar capacity I wouldn't be shy in asking them for a reference as well.

 

Personally, I had refrences from a university housing official who I had worked with, Nurse (BNSc) who supervised me during my volunteering at a hospital, MD who I worked with while volunteering overseas. I chose these individuals because I felt together they could comment on my intellectual abilities, passion for medicine, ability to work with others, and sense of social responsibility.

[1234]

 

I suggest that you should place more value on the capacity a reference knows you rather than the position or title of the reference.

 

However, if you have known a community member in a similar capacity I wouldn't be shy in asking them for a reference as well.

 

 

I definitely agree with you, rogerroger. If you have to decide between an individual that knows you and one that understands the field of medicine and what it entails, select the individual that knows you. However, be sure that you have many discussions with your reference until they have an understanding of what the field of medicine entails. Only once they understand medicine can the reference effectively discuss you as a person applying to medicine. I have seen references that discuss a person's characteristics at random and then conclude that the person is a good fit for medicine. These references lack logic and provide Adcom with little insight into your potential as a physician.

 

For instance (exaggerated to get the point across):

 

Mediocre:

 

Person A is a team player and is very enthusiastic in both academic and non-academic settings. He is truly a caring person; hence, he would make a great physician.

 

Good:

 

With the relatively high interdisciplinary collaboration required in modern medical settings, Person A would be an asset as he has demonstrated strong team skills in high stress, problem-solving situations.

[i know, I know - this example is pretty lame, but you get the point - make sure your references are educated to make these connections between your characteristics and the medical environment (whether it be academic or in practice)]

[hastin11]

Hmmm- 1234, to me it is bitingly obvious that you would get in without great essays or references. Your stats are insane.

[Laika]

Hmmm- 1234, to me it is bitingly obvious that you would get in without great essays or references. Your stats are insane.

 

Insane stats aren't enough. You really do need a strong essay and great references.

[rogerroger]

Insane stats aren't enough. You really do need a strong essay and great references.

 

Yup, lots of great stats get rejected.

 

Check out MDapplicants:

 

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=5831

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=5678

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=6682

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=2440

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=9784

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=581

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=395

[1234]

Hmmm- 1234, to me it is bitingly obvious that you would get in without great essays or references. Your stats are insane.

 

that may be true, but I have seen applicants with stronger (or just a strong) stats that did not get in. They weren't rejected because of stats, but rather, the impression

 

For those that do not know,

 

the UofT Application Process:

 

Step One: Flagging (MCAT and GPA)

 

Step Two: Application (everything, including references and personal statement) is read and discussed by three (3) members of the faculty. It is quite clear that references and statements, the qualitative indicators of competency, are highly valued. I mean, what is there to discuss between three faculty members if they were simply looking at your GPA and MCAT? I would say that references and statements are the primary contributors to their opinions and arguments based on this system

 

This discussion determines whether you get an interview - the major step in determining whether you get into UofTmeds.

 

Step Three: Two Interviewers read your entire application and generate questions to fill them in on what they want to know more about based on any part of your application. I assure you that they have read your statement and reference letters (based on undisclosable information due to confidentiality associated with the interview). What would be a bigger influence on you if you were to read an application? GPA/MCAT or your autobiographical sketch or your personal statement and statements made from a third-party?

 

The interviewers' prior opinion has a tremendous impact on the way they interact with you during the interview (although they try to be unbiased). Their preconceptions impact how hard they question you as well as the atmosphere/level of informality that is present during an interview. Hence, I believe that the references and personal statement basically determining whether you get past the interviews (unless you are crazy good in interviews).

 

Believe me guys, I'm not just throwing my opinions out there. I have analyzed all the systems of medical student recruitment in Ontario and this is the information I have come out with. Hope that helps!

[In_Valid]

Yup, lots of great stats get rejected.

 

Check out MDapplicants:

 

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=5831

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=5678

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=6682

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=2440

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=9784

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=581

 

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=395

 

One thing you should note, is most of those applicants did not apply with a degree. Most of them were 19 or 20.

[vip_138]

Hi, I am a third year applicant OOP. My gpa is 3.835 by the Ontario Application system standard. Two Years in research in two different labs and hospital volunteering plus some community involvement, first aid, and MCAT to be written.

 

Do you have a chance to at least get an interview at UT? or should i even bother applying this year and wait one more year?

 

Please give some advice. thanks!

 

do you have any publications, those could really help a lot at UT. Otherwise, i doubt you'ld get an interview, although you might as well apply anyways just on the off chance that you do. Their accepted gpa average is 3.87-3.90 and i'ld say 3rd years invited to interview have around 3.95-4.0. Especially as a 3rd year with a gpa below their average, it might be a stretch but i'ld say apply anyways. Even if you don't get in, you learn a lot about the process.

 

Your essay, 48 item EC's and ref's are very important too, so make sure their good, and you'll refine them if you reapply. I applied in 3rd year with 3.93 and an ok essay and a horrible list of EC's (I actually have very strong EC's but I didn't know how to 'list' them well) and didn't get an interview. This year i applied (gpa 3.95) with a much better EC list and a better essay and got an interview.

[rogerroger]

do you have any publications, those could really help a lot at UT. Otherwise, i doubt you'ld get an interview, although you might as well apply anyways just on the off chance that you do.

 

 

Just to clarify because I believe this might be somewhat misleading to the casual reader.

 

Personally, I didn't have any publications until after my interview. Later on I filled UofT in on the new publication, but I am skeptical as to how much influence this had on my eventual acceptance.

 

Some of us in the new class were just chatting about this the other day and we pretty much concluded that lots of us have been involved in research but I wouldn't say being published is the standard for anyone applying from undergrad. However, you might be able to argue this is different for the people applying with masters and PhDs.

 

 

PS:

 

Congrats Vip on your recent acceptance out in Alberta!

[1234]

whether you are published or not doesnt have an impact on whether you get into UT. There is a significant misconception that UT ungraduate medicine is focused around research. UT residency has a strong research orientation, but UT med does not require it (only provides the opportunity for those that are interested).

[vip_138]

i wouldn't go so far as to say it wouldn't have ANY impact. I agree that its mostly important for grad students. I was mostly just saying since he's in undergrad, a publication, which is rare, could help, basically to let him stand out a bit, especially since he has below average stats for a 3rd year.

 

As far as NO impact, how can that be? UofT likes people who do/interested in research BEFORE they enter too, if they didn't, you wouldn't see 1/4-1/3 of their class being grad students. Now it isn't NECESSARY to have a publication or research but it definitely helps in undergrad, because UofT is interested in students that have an interest for research. You show that you have an interest for research by having done some type of project. If it was published, it shows that your were even more dedicated to that project (or you were lucky, and usually, its the latter case)