St George

[abcwxyz]

I'd advise you take a look at the results before basing your decision on others' speculation.

 

http://www.sgu.edu/ERD/2009/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY2&Count=-1

 

Holy crap, it's like 80% south asian....

[clive]

So you will most likely be forced to accept a J1 visa and therefore be stuck with being forced to come back to Canada after residency. During this time you will have to jump through all the loop holes and tests needed to practice here. There is no guarantee you will be successful in this process. Thus, you might have your MD but will be jobless... But there is a guarantee of massive debt which is several times my own as a UBC med student...

 

 

As long as you finish your residency in the US, write the exams (Canadian+American), you're good to go (to practice in Ontario). I've contacted someone who has done this as well as the CPSO to confirm.

[KennethToronto]

I knew it was only a matter of time until someone posted that SGU match list.

 

A few comments: etc

 

 

What s/he said

[Alastriss]

I would take whatever the Ross/SGU/SABA university representatives tell you with a grain of salt. Better to consult with the CPSO or equivalent college in your province and work from there.

 

Yeah +1. From what I understand, EVERYONE writes the MCCQE, Us grads and canadian grads alike. It's the MCCEE that is for IMGs.

 

Clive you are talking about different paths.

 

Swift fox is talking about coming to canada for residency, while you are talking about finishing residency in the US and THEN coming to canada.

There are a few things to consider. For one, You should consider a bad case scenario of not being able to obtain an H1B visa. The J1 visa's main hassle is finding a province that has a deficit in a certain specialty that you may be interested in. You can almost always count the most competitive ones out right off the bat.

 

Given these restrictions alone, without taking into consideration the 2 year interim and all the stress + debt, it is a big decision to make. Ideally, you should NEVER be gambling with the amount of money at stake, the stress associated with all this, and 4 years of your very young life. That's how I see it, so it is ultimately up to you and how much you are willing to sacrifice. This should all be weighted with the fact that you will be limited in where you can go for residency as well as the specialty of your choice. From what I hear, Australian schools are a much more viable option.

 

This may be ignorant on my part, but any school that goes on and on regarding student testimonials of success in their admissions package needs to be given a closer look.

[clive]

The J1 visa's main hassle is finding a province that has a deficit in a certain specialty that you may be interested in. You can almost always count the most competitive ones out right off the bat.

 

 

That is not true. You can get it for any specialty (in Ontario). you have to read the fine print. the guy from sgu (canadian) who matched into ophtho (which is not on the needed specialty list) this year is on a j1 visa.

[Alastriss]

That is not true. You can get it for any specialty (in Ontario). you have to read the fine print. the guy from sgu (canadian) who matched into ophtho (which is not on the needed specialty list) this year is on a j1 visa.

 

WHATTTTTTTT are you serious?? that's amazing! I was told that it has to be in need by your province and it rules out the top specialties.

 

Then ok, what is so bad about this J-1 Visa? If you can do extra residency years + fellowships on it to have your # of years on par with canada so when you come back for two years you can go ahead and practice, what is so bad bout this?

 

Besides the fact that you can't transition it into a greencard, I don't get what the big fuss is about.

[clive]

also check out the O-1 visa

[human instinct]

hey...is there a link where I can check this fine print?

[VanMD]

hey...is there a link where I can check this fine print?

 

There are about ~400 Canadian Students at SGU presently.

 

Check your facts before making statements like, "going to SGU is like vomit on your application" etc... etc... go to http://www.valuemd.com and go to St.George's University forum.

 

Once you do the equivalent length residency in the USA, you come back to Ontario and say here are my papers and my USMLE exam scores etc... and you get license to practice in Ontario. No additional exams. Things are changing and I would not be surprised if in the future USMLE 1, 2, and 3 (or the new USMLE type exam coming out in a couple of years) will be considered even to Canadian Licensing Exams. J1 letter, to get a J1 visa in the USA is easy. Especially in places like ONTARIO. Alberta has different regulations. BC who cares what BC does. They are ridiculous.

 

BC is changing but is not close to being OK for IMG's non-british commonwealth. For what I am concerned BC can go and French Connection UK themself. Ontario and Quebec (if you are a resident) are fair game. The rest of the country can do what I just said above.

 

YES, if you can get in to UK school go there first. No brainer. Irish schools are great too, but can you afford RCSI??? If so great go.

 

Australia, I would not go there. South Africa.. NO thank you.

[human instinct]

well the reason i mentioned Australia and South Africa is their commonwealth status and there is no reason to think that Australian schools are any less established than the ones in Caribs. They are much better as far as i know if one plans to return back to practice in Canada. also i did not make the above statement

[Alastriss]

ok, so what specialties ARE IN NEED on a year to year basis?

[Swift Fox]

There are about ~400 Canadian Students at SGU presently.

 

Check your facts before making statements like, "going to SGU is like vomit on your application" etc... etc... go to http://www.valuemd.com and go to St.George's University forum.

 

 

Here is an idea...

 

You want to practice in Canada right? Well assuming that you do then how about you get your butt off a Caribbean forum, and listen to what people in the Canadian system are saying... Sorry to be harsh but ValueMD, anonymous SGU student or SGU propaganda are NOT valid sources of information when your future is on the line... Well at least that's how I would look at it...

 

I never said it isn't possible to match or be successful. But I did say you are gambling with your long term financial and career outlooks by going to SGU or any other Caribbean or dubious med school.

 

I have nothing against SGU or any medical school for that matter. I am simply telling you what the reality is behind the curtain where the actual decisions are made... I am telling you what I have personally heard from residency directors and from people at the CMA during my time with them...

 

Don't like it, fine. Ignore it or spout random gibberish from a Caribbean med forum or this or that SGU student. I just hope some of you have the common sense to evaluate what people actually in the medical profession within Canada have been saying about these institutions. The CMA has not issued warnings for no reason at all... If nothing else gets the alarm bell going off then at least these should...

 

Here is a REAL source, the Canadian Federation of Medical Students. Here is what they say: http://www.cfms.org/pre_med/applying.cfm I assure you there are more statements like that from basically every medical association in the country....

 

Ignore our warnings at your peril.

[VanMD]

Here is an idea...

 

You want to practice in Canada right? Well assuming that you do then how about you get your butt off a Caribbean forum, and listen to what people in the Canadian system are saying... Sorry to be harsh but ValueMD, anonymous SGU student or SGU propaganda are NOT valid sources of information when your future is on the line... Well at least that's how I would look at it...

 

I never said it isn't possible to match or be successful. But I did say you are gambling with your long term financial and career outlooks by going to SGU or any other Caribbean or dubious med school.

 

I have nothing against SGU or any medical school for that matter. I am simply telling you what the reality is behind the curtain where the actual decisions are made... I am telling you what I have personally heard from residency directors and from people at the CMA during my time with them...

 

Don't like it, fine. Ignore it or spout random gibberish from a Caribbean med forum or this or that SGU student. I just hope some of you have the common sense to evaluate what people actually in the medical profession within Canada have been saying about these institutions. The CMA has not issued warnings for no reason at all... If nothing else gets the alarm bell going off then at least these should...

 

Here is a REAL source, the Canadian Federation of Medical Students. Here is what they say: http://www.cfms.org/pre_med/applying.cfm I assure you there are more statements like that from basically every medical association in the country....

 

Ignore our warnings at your peril.

 

WHAT you talking about?

 

Good luck to you. You are fortunate to be a UBC student and you don't have to worry about that. I hope you don't take it for granted.

 

In all do honesty, BC can go and play with it self. I don't plan to come back to BC. Remember who suffers, not me. BC and BC residents do. You will not be able to make up for all the physician shortage by yourself.

 

The head of CaRMS came down to SGU last spring and explained things to us the situation. So we getting our info from the source and not from VMD.

 

I won't go down to your level and argue with you about a vomit application. When you and I are at the same rotation we will see how thing go. When you go and talk to UofT department heads you may get a better idea of what they are looking for. Remember you don't know who is posting on this forum. You just think you are better.

 

Till then don't pass judgment on your fellow Canadians who have the same stats as you, if not better, but were not as fortunate to get into UBC.

 

PS. Australian schools are not a good idea. SGU does rotations in the USA. According to UofT program directors. USA rotations are worth much more than any other rotations in the world (other than Canada) when comparing applicants. I am not saying SGU is the ideal medical school, but it does the job at a cost. If I had the option I would go to USA or Canadian medical school, but since that is not possible I am A okay with going to SGU.

[VanMD]

ok, so what specialties ARE IN NEED on a year to year basis?

 

I have not heard of anyone from Ontario who could not get a J1 letter (as long as the programs are identical). They don't accept combined IM/ER etc.. programs cause we don't have them in Canada. But the other... simple, equal, ones are just fine.

[VanMD]

well the reason i mentioned Australia and South Africa is their commonwealth status and there is no reason to think that Australian schools are any less established than the ones in Caribs. They are much better as far as i know if one plans to return back to practice in Canada. also i did not make the above statement

 

Okay... it all depends on where in Canada you want to return to. Saba in the Carrib has a great record of matching in residency in Canada. They even have rotations in Canada. SGU does not have that yet.. but they are working on getting them set up. Perhaps something to look into.

 

If you go to Australia or S.Africa you will have a tough time matching in residency in the USA (cause most likely you will not match in Canada). It is a game or risks.

[VanMD]

also check out the O-1 visa

 

O-1 visa is a special visa which most applicants will not qualify for. Unless you have some exceptional background. Most likely few people have this.

[Swift Fox]

WHAT you talking about?

 

Good luck to you. You are fortunate to be a UBC student and you don't have to worry about that. I hope you don't take it for granted.

 

In all do honesty, BC can go and play with it self. I don't plan to come back to BC. Remember who suffers, not me. BC and BC residents do. You will not be able to make up for all the physician shortage by yourself.

 

The head of CaRMS came down to SGU last spring and explained things to us the situation. So we getting our info from the source and not from VMD.

 

I won't steep down to your level and argue with you about a vomit application. When you and I are at the same rotation we will see how thing go. When you go and talk to UofT department heads you may get a better idea of what they are looking for.

 

Till then don't pass judgment on your fellow Canadians who have the same stats as you, but were not as fortunate to get into UBC.

 

PS. Australian schools are not a good idea. SGU does rotations in the USA. According to UofT program directors. USA rotations are worth much more than any other rotations in the world (other than Canada) when comparing applicants. I am not saying SGU is the ideal medical school, but it does the job at a cost.

 

 

I assure you I am not arguing with you and I am very grateful to be in Canada. I know how competitive it is here at home.

 

Please don't misjudge my intentions. I am trying to inform those who are considering SGU or another Caribbean med school. To do this I am merely stating what I have learned here in Canada as a medical student. Not only BC btw... As a Canadian medical student I am in frequent contact with residency directors and people who have studied overseas. I have a different perspective.

 

The warnings are out there. Listen or ignore, it is your life. It already seems like you made your decision. So my best wishes to you! I really do hope it works out. I admire the sacrifices you must have made.

 

To those still contemplating SGU think long and hard of the repercussions. The CFMS and the other professional associations here in Canada want you to succeed. They are not issuing these warning for no reason at all... I would listen to them before anyone else. Apply again and again to Canada if you must. I really think you will be glad you did in the end.

[VanMD]

I assure you I am not arguing with you and I am very grateful to be in Canada. I know how competitive it is here at home.

 

Please don't misjudge my intentions. I am trying to inform those who are considering SGU or another Caribbean med school. To do this I am merely stating what I have learned here in Canada as a medical student. Not only BC btw... As a Canadian medical student I am in frequent contact with residency directors and people who have studied overseas. I have a different perspective.

 

The warnings are out there. Listen or ignore, it is your life. It already seems like you made your decision. So my best wishes to you! I really do hope it works out. I admire the sacrifices you must have made.

 

To those still contemplating SGU think long and hard of the repercussions. The CFMS and the other professional associations here in Canada want you to succeed. They are not issuing these warning for no reason at all... I would listen to them before anyone else. Apply again and again to Canada if you must. I really think you will be glad you did in the end.

 

So what exactly would you suggest for your fellow classmate who has the same stats as you and can't get into UBC or UofT. Don't do medicine.

 

What is the alternative?

[Alastriss]

Which province you from?

 

Ontario has 125 statement of need (for that province alone). Note for all Canadians. So far they have not had greater demand than 125.

 

If you end up going to SGU you would be considered as:

 

CATEGORY B, INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL GRADUATES:

 

110 Statements of Need in RCPSC specialties

15 Statements of Need in RCPSC sub-specialties

 

Statements of Need will be issued across specialties and sub-specialties, unless the number of successful. Statement of Need applications approach the limit of 125. When the limit approaches 125, priority will be

given to the following specialties.

 

Anesthesia

Diagnostic Radiology

Family Medicine

General Surgery

Internal Medicine

Laboratory Medicine

Medical Oncology

Obstetrics and Gynecology

Orthopedic Surgery

Pediatrics

Pathology (Anatomical, General)

Psychiatry

Radiation Oncology

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A post from ValueMD from a seemingly reliable source. It seems that there IS INDEED A STATEMENT OF NEED, yet this has never been an issue for those from Ontario because in the history there has never been a number of applicants for the J-1 that have passed 125 from Ontario at least.

[human instinct]

but i dont get it...say that one successfully gets the J1 visa for residency in US....then the most likely chance is that one will end up having to return back to Ontario for 2yrs as per J1 requirement. What can you do in this period? Can this period be used for practicing if residency is equivalent and one has passed the MCCQE exam?

[Alastriss]

but i dont get it...say that one successfully gets the J1 visa for residency in US....then the most likely chance is that one will end up having to return back to Ontario for 2yrs as per J1 requirement. What can you do in this period? Can this period be used for practicing if residency is equivalent and one has passed the MCCQE exam?

 

yes. You can keep things on par by doing a chief residency year or a fellowship.

Just to let you know I looked into this for me as the option of US med schools is what I am concerned with. As a carrib grad you need to worry about the MCCEE I think.

[VanMD]

yes. You can keep things on par by doing a chief residency year or a fellowship.

Just to let you know I looked into this for me as the option of US med schools is what I am concerned with. As a carrib grad you need to worry about the MCCEE I think.

 

 

As long as you did equal residency in the USA you don't have to do Canadian exams to get license in Ontario.

 

So during that 2 year period and for as long as you like, you can work as a PHYSICIAN in Ontario. Or you can do a fellowship.

[VanMD]

And as Alastriss stated, I personally talked to the person who prepare the J1 letters in Ontario and was told that they have never exceeded 125 per a year. I think it will close to that number in a couple of years, but I think they will simply add more at that time.

[VanMD]

As long as you did equal residency in the USA you don't have to do Canadian exams to get license in Ontario.

 

So during that 2 year period and for as long as you like, you can work as a PHYSICIAN in Ontario. Or you can do a fellowship.

 

Except the first one... I think its MCQEE, cause that is needed for J1 letter. The test required is suppose to be straight forward and not too difficult.

[Alastriss]

Except the first one... I think its MCQEE, cause that is needed for J1 letter. The test required is suppose to be straight forward and not too difficult.

 

also everyone writes the MCQEE Canadian grads, US grads, and IMGs