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You guys are entirely missing the point. Someone on this forum said that SGU is more affordable than the other options.

Actually, I said SOME caribbean schools are more affordable than Australian/Irish schools. Saba tuition is about $18,000/year, Queensland is $33,000/year, so almost double the price.

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I researched this option when I was applying to medical school and it is true crib schools are great if you want to match in the states. They have a great match rate with the states. Canada on the other hand they do do poorly. When I thought about this option I fully knew that matching in Canada was slim.

 

Why do the schools have a bad reputation though? They are medical degree factories. Before you take offense just look at how many first year start dates there are. It’s three at almost every school in the Caribbean (that should say something). Take the "best" schools (Ross, SGU, SABA, St. Mathews, American University Antigua) and multiple by class size:

3*5*100=1,500 degrees per year. This number is a great underestimate. Of course it is not all Canadians graduating but come on. These schools where mostly started by Lawyers and MBA's. They turn out more MD degrees then all of the Canadian medical schools combined.

 

I’m not saying do not follow your dream of becoming a doctor, I’m just saying apply 5 times at least to Canada and the USA before you even consider going abroad. I’m curious as to how many times VanMD you’ve applied to Canadian/USA schools. Sometimes dreams take 5 nights or more to complete;). I know mine did.

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I researched this option when I was applying to medical school and it is true crib schools are great if you want to match in the states. They have a great match rate with the states. Canada on the other hand they do do poorly. When I thought about this option I fully knew that matching in Canada was slim.

 

Why do the schools have a bad reputation though? They are medical degree factories. Before you take offense just look at how many first year start dates there are. It’s three at almost every school in the Caribbean (that should say something). Take the "best" schools (Ross, SGU, SABA, St. Mathews, American University Antigua) and multiple by class size:

3*5*100=1,500 degrees per year. This number is a great underestimate. Of course it is not all Canadians graduating but come on. These schools where mostly started by Lawyers and MBA's. They turn out more MD degrees then all of the Canadian medical schools combined.

 

I’m not saying do not follow your dream of becoming a doctor, I’m just saying apply 5 times at least to Canada and the USA before you even consider going abroad. I’m curious as to how many times VanMD you’ve applied to Canadian/USA schools. Sometimes dreams take 5 nights or more to complete;). I know mine did.

 

You know, I used to think like you. I really did. Why not try in canada until you get in?

Cept I didn't get into the UWO class of 2012 - never made it off the waitlist for Schulich or queen's.

 

Now I am doing a 5th year, and my life sucks. I feel like it is on hold, just waiting to get in. It's not easy being stuck in the premed cycle when you know you are ready to move on to bigger things, nor is it easy learning for a number out of 4.0 while your friends are learning for the sake of service. Nor is it productive for you to spend years of your life in your 20s applying to medical school and running on the premed treadmill (volunteer here, get 4.0 on this course, write an essay about why you love a school so much). Given that I spend class time playing 360 and eating mcdonalds instead of going to class and still getting 90+ just shows how little undergrad has left to offer. And when I am not playing on my 360 and doing many of my ECs, I more and more realize how I feel like I'm "one of them" (physicians) and how I am completely out of place right now. Maybe this time around I won't be so nervous.

 

This is what a lot of repeat applicants go through I found, and some just want to begin their life even if it means going abroad. It's just hard to see it from their point of view until you walk the path yourself. To you, classA it may have been easier. To others - maybe not. It is a matter of preference.

 

I commend you, 5 years? I wouldn't ever be able to do that.

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Medical school is a business in Carrib or in Europe. They are not there to teach you as good will. They make a killing off foriegn students.

 

SGU was founded by a lawyer. He is a business man, and he wants to protect his interests. This is not a pyramid plan to take people's money and run. They have worked well to establish a good reputation (over 30 years) in some states like NY and NJ and I think that is great. Many previous grads are now program directors in the states and will not look down on SGU applicants.

 

IT IS A BUSINESS that is for sure. It delivers for those who want to do residency in the US (and even apply to Canada). YES try applying for Canadian schools. Even change provinces to get into an easier place if you have to.

 

I use to think like some of you about social medicine and anti-capitalist when it comes to medicine. But I am now more free and open to running medicine more like a business. NOT US style health care, but more European style with mixed private and public system. Schools and Hospitals.

 

I have compared many schools (europe, australia, and carrib) and for what I want. SGU was the best decision. I am glad I did it and when I start my rotations in a few months (most likely in NYC), I will be greatful for the experience that came with the solid basic science foundation.

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Regarding Mac Style curriculum at some Australia medical schools/ or British. I am glad I did not do problem based learning like Macs. As a former educator, I don't personally agree with this style for the first 2 years of medicine. It works for some and its great for them. BUT I am not a fan.

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In my undergrad studies, I had the same attitude of simply applying until I got into Canada. Now, I see that attitude was very immature and impractical. It's simply ridiculous for me to keep waiting and keep going through the premed rat race when I know that I'm ready to start my career (and have been ready for a number of years already!).

 

Every year that passes by for me, pushes my ambitions of owning my own house, earning for my family, practicing in my own practice, and doing what I love. Trust me, 4 years from now, when I graduate in Australia, I'm confident that I'll feel MUCH better than if it was 4 years from now and I was still waiting to get accepted in Canada.

 

If one wants to go to derm, radiology, opthamology, etc then going abroad is not the best idea. But, I know that most of us in medical school will be going into family med or internal med (where all the residency positions are). Even if you think right now that you'll be going to derm, I'll bet my money that it won't happen. I've met MANY Canadian medical students that wanted derm and simply couldn't get into it and then went to family medicine. To simply wait 4 years for a Canadian medical acceptance and then become a family doctor is impractical for me personally.

 

Now, I don't know what specialty I want to go into yet...but I'm quite confident that I'll be going into primary care. To get a primary care residency in the US is not very hard for IMG's. I've talked to many American physicians about this. Also, doing primary care training in Australia is not too difficult. Yes, there are issues for training spots but this has been an issue for at least 5 years and they seem to always find spots for people. International students will likely have to go to another state and an area of need. The reciprocity between Australia and Canada is a huge bonus too. Most of the Australian training will be accepted in Canada.

 

Also, IF I change my mind about specialization (I doubt this)...there are always ways, although difficult, to do specialization in Australia.

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VanMD, I have to agree with you somewhat on the PBL training. I don't really agree with it. I don't think Mac is a school that so many other schools should emulate. I've chatted with many graduate from Mac and they all say that the training was inadequate and they had to catch up to other people in residency. I would prefer the traditional lecture style which I feel is more suited for the huge amounts of factual learning in the first two years. The Australian schools mostly focus on PBL and have some lectures. I feel either way, one will still learn the material, just that PBL may be more stressful :o

 

SGU definitely has solid training. Not any different than a US school. The training is superb and they have built a solid reputation in many parts of the US so matching is not an issue in the US. Yes, there is higher attrition at this school and other Caribbean schools, but if you are a strong student this is not an issue. People should realize that SGU far surpasses the other Caribbean schools. Most of my friends at Ross say that they would have MUCH preferred to go to SGU, but they applied late or didn't get in. Some people choose Saba over SGU because of the cheaper tuition, but I feel that SGU is far superior to SABA.

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You know, I used to think like you. I really did. Why not try in canada until you get in?

Cept I didn't get into the UWO class of 2012 - never made it off the waitlist for Schulich or queen's.

 

Now I am doing a 5th year, and my life sucks. I feel like it is on hold, just waiting to get in. It's not easy being stuck in the premed cycle when you know you are ready to move on to bigger things, nor is it easy learning for a number out of 4.0 while your friends are learning for the sake of service. Nor is it productive for you to spend years of your life in your 20s applying to medical school and running on the premed treadmill (volunteer here, get 4.0 on this course, write an essay about why you love a school so much). Given that I spend class time playing 360 and eating mcdonalds instead of going to class and still getting 90+ just shows how little undergrad has left to offer. And when I am not playing on my 360 and doing many of my ECs, I more and more realize how I feel like I'm "one of them" (physicians) and how I am completely out of place right now. Maybe this time around I won't be so nervous.

 

This is what a lot of repeat applicants go through I found, and some just want to begin their life even if it means going abroad. It's just hard to see it from their point of view until you walk the path yourself. To you, classA it may have been easier. To others - maybe not. It is a matter of preference.

 

I commend you, 5 years? I wouldn't ever be able to do that.

 

Not 5 years, but 5 application cycles. I did the 5th year too and it was boring and hell. But you better be thankful: 2 interviews last year and probably this year. Plus you have a few invites from American schools from what i have read on the forum. The Western interview is basicly the same(I gone through it and was waitlisted and didnt not get off it) so this year you probably will be getting in some where.

 

Medical school admissions is a lottery, you buy the ticket with MCAT and GPA's and wait for your stats to be called, the more times you play the lottery the better the chance is of your MCAT and GPA being called.

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Not 5 years, but 5 application cycles. I did the 5th year too and it was boring and hell. But you better be thankful: 2 interviews last year and probably this year. Plus you have a few invites from American schools from what i have read on the forum. The Western interview is basicly the same(I gone through it and was waitlisted and didnt not get off it) so this year you probably will be getting in some where.

 

Medical school admissions is a lottery, you buy the ticket with MCAT and GPA's and wait for your stats to be called, the more times you play the lottery the better the chance is of your MCAT and GPA being called.

 

Thanks for the support. Even now I'm at botterell hall library listening to queen's meds students discussing epinephrine and beta receptors! Oh how I wish I was doing that. i just used my self as an example to illustrate that it is tough for some people to indeed sit around. It comes down to a personal choice. Some risk loving people may want to go ahead with it. Other risk averse individuals may want to stay home and try to work it out over here. Just something for us to think about before we bash SGU, Oz etc.

 

To summarize the biggest problem with SGU as concluded by virtually everyone

1) false advertising - they make it sound like you will likely be successful if you go there.

2) They make no effort to weed out the people who have no idea what they are getting themselves into: academically and non academically

academically: some are just not cut out for meds or haven't proven themselves yet.

non-academically:

-some have a skewed view on medicine

-some don't know that doing your clinicals in the US

DOES NOT MEAN you are there for good (some people actually didnt know what clerkship was who applied and got in)

- some don't know what the visa issues J-1, H1b, etc, and are just driven to irrational or incomplete decisions.

 

A lot of people don't realize that this is not something that you want a "good chance for". If you are spending buttloads of money, 4 years of your early life away from family and all things you have come to know for the first 20 some years of your life, it better be a "damn f*cking good chance" at residency, not something better than a coin toss.

 

I think some people just don't think it through as much as they should have, or believe they will "work harder" in meds. The school doesn't invoke paternalism to keep these people out either.

Any mildly intelligent individual that sees a med school run like a business will intuitively feel doubt about the quality of the school as an educational institution.

 

After looking at all this, some people are well informed, and the risks/obstacles are worth while. For others it is not. For the rest, they are probably just oblivious. It comes down to opinions and personal choices.

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