e_is_hv Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 Hey Everyone, Sorry to bother you over the holiday break. I've been looking at various specialities, and I've found opthamology to be quite interesting (love the balance between medicine and surgery) but I'm a little hard pressed to find out good information on it. Can anyone give any general ideas/impressions on this speciality? Specifically: a) what a "typical" week looks like typical hours and "on call" c) what's the surgery portion of it like? Are you sitting down at all? I ask, just as I have flat feet, and have a hard time in the OR typically. Also, does anyone know what exactly is (ironically) expected in terms of vision? I have a very strong glasses perscription, but with them, I'm fine. d) potential research done (clinical, basic sciences, etc) e) I came from an undergraduate in engineering, and really miss thinking...is this a speciality that one will find intellectually stimulating? I know its a lot, but really appreciate anything - thanks in advance! e_is_hv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlatan Posted December 29, 2008 Report Share Posted December 29, 2008 #a: From my understanding, you typically do 1-2 days surgery per week. You can even choose to not do surgery at all after going through residency. #b: Few ophthalmologic conditions are life-threatening. Calls are probably little to non-existent. This lifestyle aspect attracts many applicants. #c: Good stereopsis (depth vision) is necessary to perform opthalmologic surgeries under the microscope and since ophthalmologic surgeries deal with extremely delicate structures in the eye. Note the "opthalmologist assessment" document applicants are required to submit for CaRMS application to some ophthalmology residency programs. You can get your eyes checked up at an ophtalmologist to see if your they are good enough or not. Do it now before you commit yourself to the specialty. #d: With such intense competition due to limited spots, research will most certainly give you a cutting edge. Some might go as far as to say that research is a tacit requirement to secure a successful application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obscured by clouds Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Hi e, Have a glance at this document, you might find it helpful in answering some of your questions about ophthalmology: http://www.med.ualberta.ca/education/studentaffairs/faqs/ophthalmology-faq.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey799 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 -great field - very interesting, very visual -respect from physicians - almost all eye emergencies (ie ruptured globe, screw drive in globe, orbital cellulitis with abscess etc) I've seen on ER rotation --> we don't do anything until ophthal residents came - and they came in like GOD. -superb money - just check the billings but jobs are hard to come by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJack Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Ophthalmology is a great, though extremely competitive, field. Seeing as how I have zero experience in ophtho and this is all just second-hand, take what I say with a grain of salt... ...for your final point, about problem solving: what I've heard is that ophtho doesn't have a whole lot of problem solving relative to something like radiology or ER. It's mostly pattern recognition and surgeries you can't really get creative with. That being said, various studies in the USA have shown that ophthos have some of the lowest job satisfactions in medicine. However, their medical climate is very different from ours and this low satisfaction may have something to do with the fact that their retinal laser surgery compensations were recently slashed. Overall, its a great field as stated above. They do great work, lots of hands-on testing and interventions, the pay/hour ratio is exquisite, and the prestige is high (sure you'll hear some other docs call them "eye-dentists", but that's just because the other docs don't get paid or respected by the general public nearly as much). Go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (sure you'll hear some other docs call them "eye-dentists", but that's just because the other docs don't get paid or respected by the general public nearly as much). Go for it. I'm pretty sure most people have minimal regard for ophthalmologists...unless they have problems with their vision! The pay, on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharon333 Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 I was thinking of going in this field for the pay myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scienceguy123 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 how competitive is this specialty really? I know there's a quota of about 35 residency spots per year across canada, but does anyone know what % of applicants don't get into any opthal. programs and have to go with their second choice? What about in Ontario in particular? Adding to that, I've always been curious about the chances of an optho applicant being accepted into a program out of province, considering it would be more difficult to do an elective there... this may have just been due to a small sample I took, but it seems that many opthalmologists have travelled across canada to complete their specialty... any truth or logic to this? thanks for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kate Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Hi scienceguy, If you look at the CaRMS statistics, there were 59 individuals in this year's match who ranked ophthalmology as their first choice, and there were only 35 spots. (Of course, some of these spots are also French-language spots.) You can do the math... As far as ability to match out of province, I don't think the same geographic discrimination that goes on at the medical school entry level goes on to the same extent at the residency level. In other words, applicants should stand decent chances of getting in at OOP programs. If you think about it, the ranking scheme is such that the program is kind of in the driver's seat. That is, a program can "wish big" and rank an outstanding OOP applicant very highly without jeopardizing its chance of matching the decent home applicant. (Of course, there are exceptions. For instance, Quebec programs across the board-- not just ophtho-- have a tendency to protect their spots by awarding them to Quebec residents, who are more likely to stay in the province. However, I'm not aware that this goes on in the same way in other provinces.) All of this having been said, I think it is wise for those ophthalmology hopefuls to have a "foot in the door" at their home school. As you can see from the statistics, ophthalmology is competitive. Even if you do all of the right things, you still face stiff competition from other applicants who will have done all of the right things. As a home applicant, you always have a bit of an advantage because the people in the program have more opportunity to get to know you as a person. Ultimately, all programs care about whether you are a person who will fit in and be happy at their particular program. I hope this helps. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scienceguy123 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Hi Kate, You're info and perspective were quite interesting, and new to me. Quick question for you, or for anyone else... is there any way of knowing how man people from a university get matched into a particular discipline? ie, how many ophthalmology students from University of Ottawa matched in any optho programs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/15MatchReport_E.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scienceguy123 Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 that link doesn't really tell you much... it just indicates how many spots there are per program... not how many students applying from a particular school got into that preferred discipline... unless i'm misreading it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blinknoodle Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 That link shows you where the graduates matched which is the info you were wondering. Match lists are more of a function of what the students are interested in.. not in determining the best odds of getting where yiou want to go. There is a lot of info on the CaRMS site.. although a bit unwiedly, so through each link to see if they can answer your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scienceguy123 Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 hmmm, i see what you mean, and again maybe im reading it wrong. When I look at http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/15MatchReport_E.pdf I see it telling me the same information as https://w1c.e-carms.ca/pdws2009/jsp/pd.do?d=909&p=p3&m=1 which really only tells you the number of graduates entering into a particular program, and obviously it will be equal to teh program's quotas. (however it has no connection to the school at which they completed their MD) But what I'd really like to know is how well the students from each school that chose a specialty like ophtho as their first choice actually matched into the discipline. http://carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/11MatchReport_E.pdf this link shows the number of students from each school that chose ophtho as their 1st choice. (59 in total across canada) but what i can't tell is how many of the 8 graduates from U of T actually got accepted into an ophtho program, anywhere? Or how many CMGs of UBC actually made it into their first choice discipline of ophtho? etc... it could indicate if there's any particular med school that has a larger percentage of graduates matching into this discipline. If the link (http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/15MatchReport_E.pdf ) tells me the right info, that means that from every medical school, the number of graduates that matched into the ophtho discipline is exactly equal to the program quota of that school's program... which is a bit coincidental to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blinknoodle Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 I see what you mean.. To be honest I was surprised that they would post the match lists from each school. They have the lists of first choice disciplines from the 2008 match but I can't figure out what the final match lists were: http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2008R1_MatchResults/11Discipline%20Choice%20of%20Canadian%20Graduates%20by%20Medical%20School%20and%20Discipline_en.pdf http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2008R1_MatchResults/12Discipline%20Choice%20of%20Canadian%20Graduates%20by%20Medical%20School%20and%20Discipline2_en.pdf I can tell you that 5 people matched to ophtho that year from UWO. I have the full 2008 match results from UWO since it was released locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 The chances of someone matching into a particular specialty depend on the qualities and strengths of that applicant much, much more than the school which they attended. So, I don't think success rate by school is a useful metric of anything - plus, it would pose privacy/sensitivity issues as it would make individuals' ranking choices and match results easily deducible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scienceguy123 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 it's true, the stats can't tell you any more than a correlation, but it would be interesting to see if any school consistently has more of its grads matchign into ophtho... obvisouyl there's many other factors to consider does anyone know if more schools release their particular match results, like UWO did in 2008? what i mean is, a list of the number of grads who matched into the various disciplines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kate Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Hi scienceguy, I will echo Lactic Folly's comments. I *really* think the likelihood of successfully matching to ophthalmology is dependent on the quality of the applicant rather than which school he/she attended. While it would be interesting to know how many people from a given class matched to ophthalmology, i) I doubt this information is readily available and ii) I don't think it really matters. *Anyone* from *any* Canadian medical school can successfully match to ophthalmology with a combination of demonstrated interest, good performance at electives, solid reference letters and +/- research. Oh yeah, and a little bit of luck... Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 The school that has more of its graduates matching into ophthalmology will likely be the school who has more of its students interested in ophthalmology that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame219 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Interesting discussion you guys have. I have a long standing interest in eye-related health care since my undergrad years. In fact at one point I contemplated on whether to go to optometry school or med school when I received acceptances from both. The primary reason why I chose med school is that I want to provide eye care as an ophthalmologist rather than an optometrist because simply there's so much more that can be done. I have been involved in activities related to optometry in undergrad, but none of them were ophtho related (as they don't let non-med students in). I'm currently about to start my first year of med school in the States, and I'm kinda worried about my choice now. There are only 35 spots in Canada, and only about half of the first choice applicants get the spot, so, my question is: Is this residency position only for geniuses that got 39+ MCAT and 4.0 GPA getting into med school? Any chance for mortals like me who have decent mcat scores and gpa but studying in the States? I know that I will graduate as a CMG, but I will probably lose advantage over other people because I'm technically considered "out of province"(?) by every province in Canada. If I apply for ERAS and go to the States, I have to take care of the visa problem because I've heard that competitive specialties in the States are generally reluctant to accept people with visas. It saddens me to know that my options are severely limited, and I'm not sure if I should be pursuing this path. I know that doing preps early (I barely started my medical career!) would help, but is it worth doing all the prepwork given I will probably not be the smartest guy in class? I don't have tunnel vision and I'm not stuck to ophtho, I just want to know if it's worth it. P.S. I'm a guy lol, so all the gucci/pretty face stuff doesn't apply to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 MCAT and GPA don't mean much once you have gotten in. Work on establishing connections here, and Step 1 if applying in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame219 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 MCAT and GPA don't mean much once you have gotten in. Work on establishing connections here, and Step 1 if applying in the US. Yeah, I was just using that to point out that I'm not a genius (perhaps a misleading indicator anyway!) and will probably not be the best guy in class. That being said, I know that Canada doesn't take scores into factor, that's why it's kinda vague on how likely the chances of prospectives like me are just evaluating the ref letters/electives/research. Does the slightly above average med student with a passionate interest (and some ophtho research) stand a chance? Or do you really have to be extremely smart and knowledgable. (as this is the impression I got talking to med students about ophtho residents, and 59 applicants is actually a low stat comparing to how ppl self-select in choosing their first choices) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Does the slightly above average med student with a passionate interest (and some ophtho research) stand a chance? Sure, if you're the one they like best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame219 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 isn't that just circular reasoning? Care to elaborate on that with any real life examples or you're just saying theoretically? Sry I'm not trying to give you a hard time I just want more information on the feasibility of this path before I do something that sounds crazy. I guess looking at the carms data, chances are next to impossible, tho I hope to stand corrected =/ There are 33 applicants from the states in general, as shown by this link: http://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2009R1_MatchResults/1MatchReport_E.pdf (who knows whatever reason some gave up) and from another table, just counting the match report for cmg ophtho from Can med schools, it adds up to, 35! None of the US cmgs got an ophtho residency spot. Interestingly though, I couldn't find the program choices for US graduated cmgs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kate Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Hi Flame, You do not need to be a genius to get into ophthalmology. Nor do you have to be gorgeous with a wardrobe full of Gucci and Prada. I firmly believe that ophthalmology programs are looking for what every other program is looking for: smart, dedicated residents who will fit in well with the program dynamic and contribute to it. It's true that undergraduate medicine programs do not provide much exposure to ophthalmology in either the pre-clinical or clinical years, so in order to gain adequate exposure (i.e. do I really want to do this?) and face-time (i.e. making yourself known) you do need to take matters into your own hands. Summer observerships and research projects are two such ways. I wouldn't really encourage bagging too many classes in order to do observerships. I don't think it's necessary and you may miss out on exposure to things that you weren't aware of (more later). For your own particular situation, I'm not quite sure what to recommend as I'm not familiar with how Canadians who trained in the States are viewed by program directors. The logical things to do would be to arrange electives in Canada to make yourself known to the Canadian programs as well as to try to arrange a research project in a vision-related subject some time during your medical school. Do well on your USMLEs and make sure you apply to American programs as well. (This is anecdotal, but I am aware of one Canadian who has done ophthalmology training in the States, so it can't be impossible.) Finally, as you are at the beginning of your medical school, keep your eyes open to what other medical specialties have to offer! For most of us, there isn't just one specialty that will provide us with fulfilling and interesting careers. It's not "ophthalmology or bust." Personally, I started out medical school with one specialty in mind and ultimately chose another specialty entirely. I'm sure I would have been happy with either choice, as well as a number of other specialties as well. So cast your net wide. I hope this helps. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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