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I'll bet mean gpa will be lower this year


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It will be hard this year for many to plan out how they can raise $100K plus over the next three years to pay for this.

 

Six figure loans are getting tough to get

 

Family's have dipped into savings

 

Applicants may be less willing to relocate - i.e. if you live at parents home in TO - will pick TO or nothing else.

 

Mac may have to dig deep into the applicant pool to get real acceptances

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It will be hard this year for many to plan out how they can raise $100K plus over the next three years to pay for this.

 

Six figure loans are getting tough to get

 

Family's have dipped into savings

 

Applicants may be less willing to relocate - i.e. if you live at parents home in TO - will pick TO or nothing else.

 

Mac may have to dig deep into the applicant pool to get real acceptances

 

I disagree. 6 figure loans are hard to get - sure that's what you hear in the news, when they are talking about people trying to start up business ventures or using the money to go into a shaky market. They are not hard to get if the investment is worthwhile for the bank, even if the money supply is tight. Given that you will become a doctor if you go to a canadian medical school (unlike IMGs for example who go abroad), and given that a physician's income is very inelastic, investing in someone's medical education doesn't fall under 'risky'.

 

As far as I am concerned my bank said that I will be ok for getting loans (and this was said for US schools where I had to present a letter saying I would be able to pay 70k ). I am with HSBC anyone is interested, but this was said by the HSBC manager, but my dad does have a good rapport with them.

Finally, there is osap, which will help out a lot.

 

People don't come this far and work this hard to be stumped by money. They will find a way.

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I disagree, interest in medical education (actually any education) increases during a recession. The private bank loans for medical students are solid (especially MD financial) and OSAP is not going away. Mac's three-year option represents the most cost-effective way to become a MD. If a lot of people are considering finances when choosing a medical school McMaster will see an increase in eager applicants.

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OSAP will readily give any Ontario medical student living away from home about $14k/year (provided there's minimal income for the year). To top that off, anything over 10k for med students is converted into a bursary (i.e. they don't want it back). On top of all that, most medical schools grant bursaries to OSAP receipients in the amount of $5k-10k/year. That's $19k-24k/year in yo' face of which $9k-14k/year is FREE money. No income? No problem! This is Canada, baby!

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Hi everyone,

 

These are all very valid points, however, one also needs to consider the amount of time and preparation needed to enter professional programs such as Medicine and Law. The preparation required to write either an MCAT or LSAT is much higher than one would need for let's say an MBA (ie. GMAT preparation). Also, those that are affected by the current economic crisis tend to be in the fi nancial sector. In that regard, most applicable programs that should see a rise in admissions will likely be MBA programs, MF programs, etc. Further, considering the Canadian Capital markets were in full swing until August, and mass layoffs proceeding in September, that leaves little - no time to write the MCAT/LSAT and apply for admission by the October deadline. Finally, other professional programs tend to have "rolling" admissions processes (ie. write the GMAT and get your apps in anywhere from Oct - May), leaving ample opportunity to apply after the slow down in the economy.

 

Now, with that said, I don't agree with the statement that getting a loan will be more difficult and/or will deter individuals from applying. If anything, considering today's reduction of interest rates to the lowest in Canadian history, I would argue it would actually be much easier to maintain interest payments (opportunity cost just went down - both in terms of upfront cost and foregone income).

 

Throw in that it's been 2 years since the Double Cohort has passed, it's pretty much impossible for anyone on this forum to predict the number of applicants this year.

 

I guess that's it for my thoughts, goodluck to everyone :) !

 

Medhopeful

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lol, I think the mean GPA would be 3.9 at Mac this year. It's the same avg GPA as U of T, but U of T drops your 3 lowest, so keep that in mind. Remember, last year, GPA was worth 53% while autobiographical sketch was worth 43% for the pre-interview formula. This year, GPA is worth 63% compared to 33% for autobiographical sketch. Not to mention that last year's avg matriculant GPA was 3.86, I'm not surprised if this year's would be 3.9.

 

No offense Mac Med school, but I sense mega GPA inflation.

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lol, I think the mean GPA would be 3.9 at Mac this year. It's the same avg GPA as U of T, but U of T drops your 3 lowest, so keep that in mind. Remember, last year, GPA was worth 53% while autobiographical sketch was worth 43% for the pre-interview formula. This year, GPA is worth 63% compared to 33% for autobiographical sketch. Not to mention that last year's avg matriculant GPA was 3.86, I'm not surprised if this year's would be 3.9.

 

No offense Mac Med school, but I sense mega GPA inflation.

 

So depressing! Wish they didn't change the Sketch/GPA %. :(

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McMaster and Ontario are not to blame. I think it's time that other provinces start FULLY opening their doors to out-of-province applicants. This is Canada after all; our health-care is completely universal, and so too should be our medical education. The more I think about it, the more it seems discriminatory for medical faculties in other provinces to have OOP quotas. Ontario's whole GPA inflation can easily be rectified by having OOP schools open their doors a lot wider. Check out admissions stats for IP applicants from other OOP schools; the majority of OOP schools have matriculated students with mean stats MUCH lower than students at Ontario schools. Want proof? Check out the Manitoba, UBC, and Saskatchewan forums.

 

Anyone else with me?

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GPA will be highest ever. It will rival the GPA of accepted students to JHop, Harvard and Wash U (it already does). Recession means competetion going up, not down. However, creative wishful thinking thread...:rolleyes:

 

LOL you wish gpa is what Makes JHops hard to get into.

 

It seems we are all looking at a bunch of different variables in isolation here And taking a bunch of things we heard in intro to business/economics/commerce and putting it out of context. There are a lot of things going on, one of which is probably people paying more attention to medicine as a future career. Yet I doubt that those guys in commerce or business will want to make the switch to medicine due to the times ahead, so I don't think competition will cause the recession to go up. I do cause the competition to go up a little as this is the trend the past while.

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McMaster and Ontario are not to blame. I think it's time that other provinces start FULLY opening their doors to out-of-province applicants. This is Canada after all; our health-care is completely universal, and so too should be our medical education. The more I think about it, the more it seems discriminatory for medical faculties in other provinces to have OOP quotas. Ontario's whole GPA inflation can easily be rectified by having OOP schools open their doors a lot wider. Check out admissions stats for IP applicants from other OOP schools; the majority of OOP schools have matriculated students with mean stats MUCH lower than students at Ontario schools. Want proof? Check out the Manitoba, UBC, and Saskatchewan forums.

 

Anyone else with me?

 

 

I think their selectivity is complete BS. I don't know where the justification comes from. I think it is either trying to keep physicians from fleeing the province, in which case they should just cut to the case and deem you practice in x province for 5 years or so if you wish to be considered IP.

 

It's either that or that health-care is determined more-so on the provincial level in which case schools that select for candidates on a regional level (UWO, Ottawa, NOSM) are a result of broken policies.

 

I just think that the admissions isn't meant to be fair in Canada for the applicant. It's meant to be fair for the patients. Priorities (and money) dictate so.

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lol, I think the mean GPA would be 3.9 at Mac this year. It's the same avg GPA as U of T, but U of T drops your 3 lowest, so keep that in mind. Remember, last year, GPA was worth 53% while autobiographical sketch was worth 43% for the pre-interview formula. This year, GPA is worth 63% compared to 33% for autobiographical sketch. Not to mention that last year's avg matriculant GPA was 3.86, I'm not surprised if this year's would be 3.9.

 

No offense Mac Med school, but I sense mega GPA inflation.

 

last year was 63-33 as well...for the class of 2011

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These are some very interesting responses - made me think. Thanks to you all.

 

 

I am an older applicant (39) who is currently employed with a good job. I plan to quit and take the course if accepted. I'm sick of the business world and want to spend my time helping people. I am a smart person - and i am sick of using my brain trying to make money. I've really had it up to the eyeballs. I'd love to come back to MAC and I don't care about the pay doctors get or anything. Call me crazy - but that is how I feel. To be honest, I'd make more by not going into medicine (maybe).

 

But....I graduated and I know where life goes in the 3 yrs after you do and what it costs. Natural things will happen that you will struggle to put on hold.

 

Anyway, this is a game for big $

 

Many of the 4000 plus applicants can't dream of playing - yet they will apply.

 

I'm glad to hear there is bank support -- pls post what you know about this and where I can go as I will need a good line of credit - that I dont need to pay till I'm making money again

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Regarding the trouble getting loans issue....I agree with previous posts and don't think it will money will prevent anyone from attending med school. I remember at a Med School info session at mac, the dean was answering questions, and this topic came up "what if I can't get a loan", and the dean said, if you're accepted and can't get a loan we'll (Mac) will take care of it. I'm sure the school will be able to help you.

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last year was 63-33 as well...for the class of 2011

 

No, it wasn't. I applied last year and I distinctly remember reading the formula as GPA 53% and autobiographical submission 43%.

 

But, I think this is a minute point. If I remember correctly, the score on GPA is based on z scores. So really, it still depends on the GPA of all other applicants in that pool. If your GPA is higher than the mean GPA in that pool, then it's more worth it for you (you in general, not you specifically).

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The odd thing about this economic downturn is that the job loses have been top-down rather than bottom-up. That is, the layoffs are occurring at the top with the executives going before the workers. Until the workers start getting laid off in mass (we've started to see it in the past few month), we won't witness the true effects of the recession and the competition it causes.

 

That said, I don't think it affects medicine as much in the short-term simply because there is a long build up to where we are now (as someone posted earlier). But it is true that medicine & dentistry become more popular during bad economic times because people want to have portable skills.

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to macmba

 

readily available on the websites of any of the major Canadian banks are links to medical student lines of credit for $150,000 plus

 

interest rate is always prime, no co-signer, no proof of income, no assets for collateral of any kind needed

 

good luck, if you are lucky enough to get an interview your maturity and experience will be your greatest asset

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I don't think that applicant number has a drastic predictive value for the GPA of successful applicants.

 

This is the only thing that I think is likely:

Last year's GPA probably has a high correlation to # of applicants this year; people with low GPAs possibly see a high GPA last year and don't apply. Combine this with the effect that knowledge of a 63% GPA weighting as opposed to a 53% may further deter low GPA applicants. It's likely that the number of applicants with low GPA went down.

 

However, the rest of the applicant pool is really unpredictable; I don't think we can really say if the GPA changed because, in reality, less than 2000 applicants to Mac have a real shot at an interview (imo). Did this 2000 number change to 2500 this year, making things more competitive? No one knows. This would not be reflected in the # of applicants unless it was broken down and more details were available.

 

My point is that raw number of applicants is meaningless. The only way you are going to find answers is to wait for the statistics pdf to come out next year.

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I think their selectivity is complete BS. I don't know where the justification comes from. I think it is either trying to keep physicians from fleeing the province, in which case they should just cut to the case and deem you practice in x province for 5 years or so if you wish to be considered IP.

 

It's either that or that health-care is determined more-so on the provincial level in which case schools that select for candidates on a regional level (UWO, Ottawa, NOSM) are a result of broken policies.

 

I just think that the admissions isn't meant to be fair in Canada for the applicant. It's meant to be fair for the patients. Priorities (and money) dictate so.

 

Alastriss, you've made some really good points here. It's made me (at least partially) reconsider my stance on OOP quotas.

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