nerv12 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Has anyone heard of this? Sounds kind of interesting I just discovered it last night. Wouldn't be like taking the nurse's job in hospitals and other places lol http://fhs.mcmaster.ca/physicianassistant/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMmd Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 shizzle, there is a lot of hot chicks in their inaugural class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rla_z Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 shizzle, there is a lot of hot chicks in their inaugural class 404 hot girls not found. Most of them are 30+ man, get some higher standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I'm still not clear on WHY we're introducing yet another class of HCPs. Indeed, if I were a nurse-specialist/practicioner, I'd be rather concerned, particularly since they fulfill the exact same roles described for PAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMmd Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 404 hot girls not found. Most of them are 30+ man, get some higher standards lol look again, there are only 3 guys in the class...compared to a gazillion hot chicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerv12 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I'm still not clear on WHY we're introducing yet another class of HCPs. Indeed, if I were a nurse-specialist/practicioner, I'd be rather concerned, particularly since they fulfill the exact same roles described for PAs. lol yea. I am curious to see how they are going to play this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennisball80 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 404 hot girls not found. Most of them are 30+ man, get some higher standards lol wtf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrhumble Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Has anyone heard of this? Sounds kind of interesting I just discovered it last night. Wouldn't be like taking the nurse's job in hospitals and other places lol http://fhs.mcmaster.ca/physicianassistant/ What is wrong with a nurse's job? In US, PA is popular. We don't know how it will turn out here in Ontario / Canada. If you graduate from the PA program in McMaster, you're employed in some rural area for 2 years. After that, there's no guarantee that you'll be employed anywhere in Ontario. I talked to them through email and such. You're most likely going to have a very high GPA and do well on the interview (much like medical school) if you're going to beat the competition and get into one of the 20 spots. Personally, I know some IMG medical doctors who have not made it into the PA pilot program. Might as just as try to get into medical school. On the other hand, there is a lot of PA colleges in US. One thing I don't really like about the PA program is that you have to retake the licensing test every certain number of years to show that you're clinically competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcwxyz Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 The Canadian medical lobby is not strong enough in ensuring protectionist measures. Other lobbies seem to be more powerful or interested in this respect and have something to gain by exercising this power; this may include political or financial gains (northern health boards getting practitioners, governments thinking that they will save money, etc). That's why we have PA's. There is no other reason for these kind of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrhumble Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I'm still not clear on WHY we're introducing yet another class of HCPs. Indeed, if I were a nurse-specialist/practicioner, I'd be rather concerned, particularly since they fulfill the exact same roles described for PAs. I'm planning on becoming a nurse practitioner/PA if I don't make it to medical school next year. Even if I was a nurse practitioner, I wouldn't be worried about PA. They pretty much do the same thing. PAs and NPs have been in US for years and years, and they're pretty much even on the playing field. In Ontario, we're going to introduce nurse endoscopist, RN first assist surgery and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcwxyz Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 In Ontario, we're going to introduce nurse endoscopist, RN first assist surgery and more. Very troubling. Doctors investing the prime years of their lives in education should be rewarded by job security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerv12 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Very troubling. Doctors investing the prime years of their lives in education should be rewarded by job security. I agree, but then again I am pretty sure actual doctors will always have the upper hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Very troubling. Doctors investing the prime years of their lives in education should be rewarded by job security. Why is it troubling? A gastroenterologist will continue to move around the scope while a dedicated nurse assists. Same with surgery - surgeon, scrub nurse, circulating nurse, and possibly a resident or student. Worries among physicians regarding supposed encrochment by other HCPs are kinda beside the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smile Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Very troubling. Doctors investing the prime years of their lives in education should be rewarded by job security. You're an idiot. Prime years of their lives? Are you kidding me? Job security? Nobody owes physicians anything. It's not the holy grail of careers. Anyway, there's nothing troubling about physician assistants. Read what they do. They've been around in the US for years now. They're an integral part of making our health care system work better, and best of all it's not quackery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavius Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Doctors are going to lose more power as time goes on. Frankly I think this is probably more beneficial to society as a whole (worse for doctors) you'd have more inexpensive workers taking the load off the very few expensive doctors. There's a lot of protectionism going around in the medical field that needs to be rectified for a more efficient system. This is just the market at work (most productivity for least cost). The system is incredibly inefficient. Why have doctors do everything when work can be outsourced? Why does it take 11-14 years to train a physician (includes undergrad and residency)? Why are the numbers for physician training spots so limited? And why does an American/Australia/European doctor have so much trouble practicing or getting matched here despite little difference in education? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavius Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Hmm I should state that increasing the specialization of labour is good (moving minor mundane time consuming stuff off doctors) although completely overshadowing jobs on critical physician functions might be a bit ill advised. As per the other thread, scary development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Why have doctors do everything when work can be outsourced? Why does it take 11-14 years to train a physician (includes undergrad and residency)? Why are the numbers for physician training spots so limited? And why does an American/Australia/European doctor have so much trouble practicing or getting matched here despite little difference in education? 1) Doctors don't do "everything" and never have. 2) It takes a very long time to train someone to be able to practice independently without supervision. 3) They are limited only with respect to the availability of funds for such training positions. 4) Some have comparatively little trouble and others face great barriers - however, differences in education may or may not be that great. It varies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrhumble Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Why is it troubling? A gastroenterologist will continue to move around the scope while a dedicated nurse assists. Same with surgery - surgeon, scrub nurse, circulating nurse, and possibly a resident or student. Worries among physicians regarding supposed encrochment by other HCPs are kinda beside the point. A nurse endoscopist will be supervised by a physician while performing endoscopy procedure her/himself rather than assisting a physician move around the scope. There's also a limitation on what a nurse endoscopist can do. http://www.oma.org/Health/IPC/NurseendoscopistsOMApaperFINAL.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerv12 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Doctors are going to lose more power as time goes on. Frankly I think this is probably more beneficial to society as a whole (worse for doctors) you'd have more inexpensive workers taking the load off the very few expensive doctors. There's a lot of protectionism going around in the medical field that needs to be rectified for a more efficient system. This is just the market at work (most productivity for least cost). The system is incredibly inefficient. Why have doctors do everything when work can be outsourced? Why does it take 11-14 years to train a physician (includes undergrad and residency)? Why are the numbers for physician training spots so limited? And why does an American/Australia/European doctor have so much trouble practicing or getting matched here despite little difference in education? More doctors = more $$$ out of the pocket of the government, which they don't want. It's funny when you see bill boards or tv commercials sometimes saying how Ontario needs more doctors, yet they don't let the foreign doctors work here. Some have tons of experience but that doesn't matter to them lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennisball80 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 More doctors = more $$$ out of the pocket of the government, which they don't want. It's funny when you see bill boards or tv commercials sometimes saying how Ontario needs more doctors, yet they don't let the foreign doctors work here. Some have tons of experience but that doesn't matter to them lol The government just cares about the $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerv12 Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 The government just cares about the $$$. was my point lol. Publicly they want doctors, but behind the scenes......a whole different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavius Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Public system. Kinda bothers me that med school acceptance rates in the states is 44% and that you're safe with a 3.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a41 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Public system. Kinda bothers me that med school acceptance rates in the states is 44% and that you're safe with a 3.5. Where did you hear this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavius Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 GPA http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/2008mcatgpa.htm Matriculation http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/2008school.htm Go to 4th footnote and do calculations off there. 44% was 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcwxyz Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 You're an idiot. Prime years of their lives? Are you kidding me? Job security? Nobody owes physicians anything. It's not the holy grail of careers. Anyway, there's nothing troubling about physician assistants. Read what they do. They've been around in the US for years now. They're an integral part of making our health care system work better, and best of all it's not quackery. Perhaps I disagree with you, but I'm much less of an idiot than you. You have employed inflammatory rhetoric, but very little substance in your post. In fact, there is barely any logic at all. A cursory understanding of economics would tell you that doctors require job security to make the investment of the ~10 years of post undergraduate education required. It's much less of a debt to a holy grail career than an understanding with a certain segment of society that is required for it to function. On a larger scale, it's why certain companies have telecommunications or hydroelectric monopolies. If the government doesn't allow this, there just isn't the impetus necessary for a company to invest so much in infrastructure when competition is taken into account. A healthcare system will not function if doctors don't have job security. It's why so many barriers exist to practicing medicine in every country in the world; maintaining the number and satisfaction of doctors is essential. The US is not necessarily the best model for our healthcare system. Their emphasis on free markets suggests different priorities for the healthcare system. Whatever is going to be cheaper for HMOs is going to direct the trends in healthcare. The US is deemphasizing primary care because of the uninsured lacking the ability to get it and the lack of job security and renumeration for primary care physicians. If you want Canada to follow this trend, then you can continue in your thoughts. In Canada, where we have a doctor shortage, physician replacements are an attempt by the government to solve this problem without making the required investment to train and retain more doctors. Will this trend adversely affect doctors job security or just allow doctors to move on to more specialized cases? That is a question that hasn't been studied in the Canadian context; which is why instituting more non-physician practitioners is irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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