Abortion doc murdered in Wichita

[WestEastMountGuy]

that's a whole other point. if it's a law that he shouldn't provide late term abortions then he should be dealt by the justice system accordingly.

 

i'm sure these acts of violence against abortionists and abortion clinics have not taken into account when abortions took place, rather, if the abortions took place at all.

 

Wasn't arguing that these killings were motivated by the time of the abortion but was rather responding to your statement about 20 week old fetuses, being not always the case.

[Tango Charlie]

Or the anti-religious behaviour.

 

Do you think the government should ban religion if its responsible for such evil.

 

You sir/ma'am have no clue about what religion is about, and if you did would not make such an ignorant comment.

 

Humans are not by nature a nice species. We are evil, greedy and selfish. Almost every religion encourages individuals to overcome this nasty behaviour and put others above themselves. Yet, as with any organization humanity's evil nature has lead to individuals using and manipulating its structures to serve their own prejudices, desires and violent tendencies.

 

No, I don't believe religion should be banned, and as it happens there's no reason to even discuss why. As time has gone on, the power of religion has declined as science and the moral zeitgeist of humanity has improved. Nonbelievers are the fastest growing group in the category of belief. It's only a matter of time before Canada, the States and other heavily theistic nations join the ranks of places like Sweden, where the believers represent only a small group. Eventually, humanity will free itself from the tyranny of the religious and its evil and immoral teachings. There's hardly any reason to try and legislate against it when it's dying out on its own.

 

As for not knowing what religion is about, I know exactly what it's about. In the case of Catholicism, it's about a bunch of old, disgusting virgins terrorizing children with fables of eternal torture and suffering if they don't do as they say. It's about hatred and bigotry toward homosexuals because one book says so. It's the KKK and other racist groups. It's fear of the dark, fear of death, and a pathetic kind of credulity that is an unfortunate byproduct of being a simple mammalian species as our own. And of course, it's about innocent people like Dr. George Tiller being murdered.

 

I know what religion is, and as an atheist, I know that none of the good things people claim to do in the name of religion cannot be done by other nonbelievers such as myself. Yet at the same time, I know that the evil acts such as the one which birthed this thread are exclusive to the theists, upon whose sadistic, vile beliefs which advocate slavery, rape, genocide, racism, and more, you seem to think our society owes its existence to.

[MSmith19]

I'd also like to mention that debates like religion vs. lack of go nowhere and people end up getting angry and irrational. The fact is that there's no way to logically debate it. What an atheist or agnosticist believe to be a logical argument is easily countered or refuted by the religious individual (in their mind atleast). Usually denial is easier than challenging your beliefs or even considering another POV.

[tooty]

Yet, as with any organization humanity's evil nature has lead to individuals using and manipulating its structures to serve their own prejudices, desires and violent tendencies.

 

are you saying that these evil-doers planned to use religion as an excuse to justify their preexisting values? yes, i agree that humans do bad things. but my argument is that some of these prejudices, desires, even violent tendencies wouldn't be there at all if it hadn't been introduced by religion. you can take plenty of examples from the bible.

 

we aren't religious out of necessity. you are religious because your parents are religious and brought you up so. it's not like we were mindlessly killing and stealing from each other and, all of a sudden, religion rolls around and saves the day. most of us don't act this way because, instinctually, we know it's wrong, not because we were taught by the reverend not to.

[tooty]

Wasn't arguing that these killings were motivated by the time of the abortion but was rather responding to your statement about 20 week old fetuses, being not always the case.

 

god damn it that's irrelevant. stay on topic!

[MSmith19]

 

The only thing I ever learned about Catholicism.

[tooty]

What an atheist or agnosticist believe to be a logical argument is easily countered or refuted by the religious individual (in their mind atleast).

 

LOL. yep. but arguing is fun.

[WestEastMountGuy]

It's only logical if you don't give morality any weight, and believe it's justified to kill this one person to save others (although as it happens it would also result in the death of some mothers as well, so it's not all kittens and rainbows).

 

You're making an argument for or against the topic, not about whether a logical individual could reach either conclusion.

 

[quote}

Anyway, you're just mulling over the classic morality question of whether you'd kill one to save ten or a hundred. While we could all give whichever answer to that question, to actually carry out such an action, to kill this husband and father of four, that requires someone whose sense of morality is horribly distorted.

 

It does no require a horribly distorted sense of morality. Does everyone in the military and police have a distorted sense of morality because they volunteered for a career where they might have to kill if necessary.

 

And, incidentally, not only is religion the best source of distorted morality, but it's also apparently the group which has a monopoly over this particular type of evil. While monopoly over various types of evil is something religion is famous for, I don't believe there has yet to be an abortion doctor whose murder wasn't committed by some religious nutjob.

 

Yes because, religion has a monopoly on evil:rolleyes: I mean people like Mugabe, Idi Amin, Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao etc. were (or are) all devout members of religious groups.

[tooty]

Yes because, religion has a monopoly on evil:rolleyes: I mean people like Mugabe, Idi Amin, Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao etc. were (or are) all devout members of religious groups.

 

Oh, son, I KNOW you didn't spring that on me. You want me to find you a list of religious leaders who killed hundreds and thousands in the name of god? I'll f*cking do it!!

 

Btw Hitler was religious. Source: Mein Kampf

 

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

[MSmith19]

Yes because, religion has a monopoly on evil:rolleyes: I mean people like Mugabe, Idi Amin, Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao etc. were (or are) all devout members of religious groups.

 

Isn't ex-president Bush Christian???

 

Hitler was religious, although I think you are right that it didn't fuel him- more likely it was the insanity that did. I could also pull up a list 10x that length of religious massacres.

[MSmith19]

I think we are confusing the word "religion" in its pure definition with the muddied, common definition. The latter to be more appropriately dubbed as "humankind's personal take on the divine".

 

I take it you claim to have the true, untainted understanding? Everyone religious person I know feels the same- don't be discouraged.

[WestEastMountGuy]

No, I don't believe religion should be banned, and as it happens there's no reason to even discuss why. As time has gone on, the power of religion has declined as science and the moral zeitgeist of humanity has improved. Nonbelievers are the fastest growing group in the category of belief. It's only a matter of time before Canada, the States and other heavily theistic nations join the ranks of places like Sweden, where the believers represent only a small group. Eventually, humanity will free itself from the tyranny of the religious and its evil and immoral teachings. There's hardly any reason to try and legislate against it when it's dying out on its own.

 

As for not knowing what religion is about, I know exactly what it's about. In the case of Catholicism, it's about a bunch of old, disgusting virgins terrorizing children with fables of eternal torture and suffering if they don't do as they say. It's about hatred and bigotry toward homosexuals because one book says so. It's the KKK and other racist groups. It's fear of the dark, fear of death, and a pathetic kind of credulity that is an unfortunate byproduct of being a simple mammalian species as our own. And of course, it's about innocent people like Dr. George Tiller being murdered.

 

I know what religion is, and as an atheist, I know that none of the good things people claim to do in the name of religion cannot be done by other nonbelievers such as myself. Yet at the same time, I know that the evil acts such as the one which birthed this thread are exclusive to the theists, upon whose sadistic, vile beliefs which advocate slavery, rape, genocide, racism, and more, you seem to think our society owes its existence to.

 

I AM NOT A RACIST A PEDOPHILE OR A MURDERER.

 

Don't insult every last theist in this world. We don't all fit into YOUR ignorant description of what it means to be religious individual.

 

How about my response:

 

Every athiest is a promiscuous individual, responsible for the spread of AIDS, who kills steals and cheats, only kept in check by the threat of punishment by secular authorities, who have perpetuated some of the worst atrocities of the last century.

 

(With the exception of the last part I don't actually believe any of the above, but i'm just showing you the type of disgustingly ignorant broad brush attacks you undertake)

 

I don't care if you ban me. Because if you silence me, for defending myself but allow his christianophobic/islamophobic/religiousphobic crap to continue you just prove that you are the intolerant one. (PS. I'm not asking for him to be banned, in fact I think its good that his hate and ignorance is out for everyone to see.

[WestEastMountGuy]

Oh, son, I KNOW you didn't spring that on me. You want me to find you a list of religious leaders who killed hundreds and thousands in the name of god? I'll f*cking do it!!

 

Btw Hitler was religious. Source: Mein Kampf

 

I wasn't saying there were no evil religious leaders, just pointing out it isn't a monopoly.

 

And Hitler's religion is not entirely agreed upon. There is arguments whether he was neo-Pagan, Christian, or just used religion to obtain his objectives.

[MSmith19]

Actually sir, the catholic church holds great responsibility for the spread of AIDs in Africa after the Pope's statements regarding birth control.

[WestEastMountGuy]

Isn't ex-president Bush Christian???

 

Hitler was religious, although I think you are right that it didn't fuel him- more likely it was the insanity that did. I could also pull up a list 10x that length of religious massacres.

 

Once again, I do not claim religious massacres never happen (in fact given the percentages of religious individuals in the world historically, it is almost certain that there are more religious troubles in history than non-religious) but rather that religion does not have a "monopoly" on evil.

[WestEastMountGuy]

Actually sir, the catholic church holds great responsibility for the spread of AIDs in Africa after the Pope's statements regarding birth control.

 

Why don't people read?

 

I just said I DON'T believe any of that I said about athiests.

 

I was just pointing out that the claim that theists are by nature evil pedophiles who spend their whole lives plotting the next massacre is horribly generalized and ignorant, and you just kind of showed how ridiculous the statement is when reversed.

 

And for the record I am neither Catholic, nor do I agree with the Pope on most things, I support gay marriage, and don't believe the bible is the word for word literal translation of God's will. In my church that places me in the mainstream.

[tooty]

As for not knowing what religion is about, I know exactly what it's about. In the case of Catholicism, it's about a bunch of old, disgusting virgins terrorizing children with fables of eternal torture and suffering if they don't do as they say. It's about hatred and bigotry toward homosexuals because one book says so. It's the KKK and other racist groups. It's fear of the dark, fear of death, and a pathetic kind of credulity that is an unfortunate byproduct of being a simple mammalian species as our own. And of course, it's about innocent people like Dr. George Tiller being murdered.

 

yeah, that's pretty harsh tango. if you keep your arguments in line, you can give us more credibility!

 

and westmountguy, it doesn't matter what religion hitler believes in. i was pointing out that he was religious and not an atheist.

 

it's been a fun discussion boys. i'm going to eat.

 

fyi, one time, on my drunken walk home, i peed on a church. i still got into med school maybe he's saving my punishment for later?

[Jochi1543]

Oh, son, I KNOW you didn't spring that on me. You want me to find you a list of religious leaders who killed hundreds and thousands in the name of god? I'll f*cking do it!!

 

Btw Hitler was religious. Source: Mein Kampf

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[uvicstudent]

There is no logic in religion. The definition of faith is a "belief that is not based on proof" and this is why it is useless to try and debate religion with religious people. (I have had a couple such arguments with my religious gf that didn't end well;) )

 

I have no problem with religion. I do have a problem with religious fanaticism, which results in horrible situations like the murder of the abortion doc.

[tooty]

And for the record I am neither Catholic, nor do I agree with the Pope on most things, I support gay marriage, and don't believe the bible is the word for word literal translation of God's will. In my church that places me in the mainstream.

 

that's the best i can hope for out of you. you're cool in my book

[WestEastMountGuy]

and westmountguy, it doesn't matter what religion hitler believes in. i was pointing out that he was religious and not an atheist.

 

I was actually saying that they don't know what he believed, not even if he did actually believe in anything beyond the fact that he had a destiny (and don't forgot even though religion is falling, the number of people that call themselves "spiritual" isn't. Even though many of them are somehow agnostic or atheist) to kill jews and save germany. So some do believe he was an atheist. I should've mad my point clear

 

it's been a fun discussion boys. i'm going to eat.

 

fyi, one time, on my drunken walk home, i peed on a church. i still got into med school maybe he's saving my punishment for later?

 

That it is.

 

Fyi, God doesn't hold grudges anymore. Jesus made him go to anger management

[mdDave]

In the case of Catholicism, it's about a bunch of old, disgusting virgins terrorizing children

 

I was going to get into this whole discussion but tangos hateful and ignorant comments are just too much. No need to spend time talking to this tool.

 

BTW: it's interesting to see everyone attacking Catholics and Christians which I feel are going to become extinct withing the next few decades in Canada but nobody mentions other main stream religions which are far more traditional or radical.

[Guest Shim]

Just stop trying to mix both of them together. You can't get any intelligent debate out of this.

 

Religion and philosophy can answer a lot of questions that science can't. In the same way, I won't ask religion to give me the last decimals of pi.

 

 

 

By the way, life can't be calculated by science. I don't why you atheist guys keep saying religion is bad, science is great, since you can't solve any ethic problem with science.

 

Oh, and and I don't think Jesus Christ would have said : "Come on, you got to kill that doc !".

[WestEastMountGuy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

Is there a law that states the mention of Hitler leads to at least one individual calling "Godwin's law"?

 

I was NOT comparing atheists to Hitler, and if it was interpreted that way then I apologize to every atheist.

 

I was simply using a list of atheists and purported atheists to prove that religion does not have a monopoly on evil, but rather humans of all back grounds are capable.

 

The person posting that argument resorted to calling all religious individuals KKK members, so I don't think that the use of Hitler as an example of purported atheist who had committed atrocities was beyond the bounds of the conversation.

[NewfieMike]

Religion and philosophy can answer a lot of questions that science can't

 

...what specifically?