oops2010 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 I was hoping someone had some words of wisdom. I've been in quite a panic since finding out that a preceptor in an early clerkship rotation has influenced decision makers to write a very, very poor evaluation of my "professional" behaviour. I really disliked this preceptor and felt she/he had a significant but unexplained problem with me. Doesn't matter what I think though as this eval will likely remain on my record. Although I'm not planning to apply to a very competitive residency, I am EXTREMELY fearful of the consequence of this on my application because programs have so many great candidates, why chose someone with a possible professionalism problem - right?? Any advice/ideas would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 did you talk to your preceptor about their concerns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oops2010 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 No - I can't do that at this point. She/he did not make mention of the problems when we spoke at final eval time, but passed along negative comments to appropriate person. Very passive-aggressive, how unbelievable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Hm, maybe you can fight it based on that? You could say s/he was interfering with your learning by not telling you what you need to improve on. If s/he didn't tell you that there was a problem, how are you supposed to learn from it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juicyprunes Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Not sure how it works at your school, but at ours, we've been told to go to the Dean of Student Affairs straight away. He/she can act as a mediator and "investigate" situations, i.e. contact your preceptor and figure out what happened. Was this a professionalism flag or just a comment about professionalism?...At our school, the "negative"/suggestions for improvement comments aren't included in the final MSPR. If it's obvious that it was just an isolated thing, then I think the Dean can use his/her discretion and remove that comment. Hope that helps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lychee Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Hi oops, I've been in a similar situation doing a practicum in my undergrad so I can relate to the stress of feeling a power imbalance stacked against you. I went to my department chair (she just happened to be the faculty member who handles situations like this) and she suggested that I add an addendum to my eval. I'm not sure if you have that ability, but I felt a lot better being able to have a rebuttal in addition to what was written about it. Also, both students and supervisors were supposed to sign off on evaluations, and I chose not to sign this evaluation because I didn't agree with it. It sounds like it wasn't an option for you this time, but it might be something to think about in the future. I don't know if any of this is helpful, but know that you are not alone! These things happen and you have probably learned a lot about "jumping through the hoops" of placements in addition to clinical skills, even though that doesn't make it any easier to stomach. Good luck to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oops2010 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hi everyone - thank you for your supportive replies, that's really appreciated. I am feeling slightly better but I still doubt that many schools will overlook such a bad evaluation on my transcript. Unfortunately, the MSRP will display these negative comments - no editing. I am still attempting to appeal to the person who wrote them but I have a feeling this won't get me anywhere. I just can't believe I may have to pay such terrible consequences after working so hard to get here. I dread not receiving interviews as a result, or the issue being brought up when I am at interview. About the student that got into derm despite fight with doc - I'm wondering whether that student went to a school where editing of the eval goes on to remove poor evaluations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I really feel you should be speaking to someone in the Dean's office/ undergrad office about this before just letting things slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 This is a stressful, difficult, situation and I do feel for you. That being said, you are by no means the only person to have encountered such an obstacle and with all luck, come out relatively unscathed. It sounds like you are already doing the right thing by staying non-defensive and refraining from criticizing the preceptor. Taking the high road is always advised, esp. when your professional qualities are called into question. Was there anything written at your final evaluation? If they are citing you for unprofessional behaviour, it would be appropriate to do so only with examples of such. Emphasize that you were never given any idea that anything was wrong during your rotation, that you take all feedback seriously, and that you surely would have acted to correct things in time if you had been aware. Are there other people you worked with who can vouch for you? Positive feedback you received? You said there was tension in your relationship with this preceptor - are there any situations you can recall that might have been misconstrued? I agree that you need to seek out a mentor, someone in the Dean's office who hopefully knows you or at least is known to be a student advocate. Usually people with professionalism problems present with a pattern of such. Gather details and specifics to support that you have consistently been doing well otherwise, that this situation was an isolated misunderstanding, and that you really were blindsided here.. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Unfortunately, the MSRP will display these negative comments - no editing. Have you confirmed this with the dean? I checked out a sample MSPR on the U of A website and there's one comment that allows for a lot of leeway: We may not report:• A narrative comment which could be negatively construed, and which is not repeated in any other assessment. Now, I have no idea whether your school has a clause like that, but this is definitely very open to interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allycat0303 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Well as long as you passed the rotation, I would let it go. I think a lot of medical students get really worked up when they feel that they have a negative evaluation, but I really don't think it makes a difference. Unless it is in the specialty of your choice. A guy in my class failed 2 rotations. Not a negative evaluation, but FAILED, due to his *arrogant attitude and overstepping his boundaries.* He matched to ortho (first choice school and program). And another guy failed because he acted like a resident (i.e sent a patient home...nurses thought he was a resident, and the patient returned needing immediate surgery). He matched to his first choice of general surgery. On the opposite side, I know a guy (2 years ago) that contested his evalutation at Mcgill. One negative comment. He took it up with all of the channels, even the Dean. He was the odds on favorite for Mcgill (in a very competitive specialty. One space. So much so that he didn't apply to ANY other school because he was the favorite.) Anyways, he didn't get it, matched to family medicine. A lot of people in the departement said it was because he had made such a big stink over the evaluation. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. My whole point, is what do you have to win? You passed. If the interview person asks, just say, "I don't see this as a weakness, I see all negative evalustions as things that need to be worked on. I've done this,and this to improve." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 It depends on the nature of the negative comment. I would hazard a guess that those people who matched to their first choice programs were already well known to the programs, who would rely on their own knowledge of the applicant instead. An evaluation that cites someone's "arrogant attitude and overstepping boundaries" could certainly be a red flag that prevents someone from even getting to the interview stage. But allycat is right, the manner in which you approach things is important. In the case, I think the OP is justified in pursuing things, to get an explanation at the very least as nothing was ever mentioned during the rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayervillager Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Obviously, I don't know the whole story... but the whole thing with not bringing it up at final evaluations but then passing along a comment in a rather underhanded sort of way - it sounds to me like your preceptor is the one with the professionalism problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubcredfox Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 "Professionalism" - that all encompassing bull-$hit word for anything that doesn't involve wholeheartedly toeing the line - issues will certainly be on your MSRP. I mean, if you can't toe the line in medical school, how could you possible be meek and absolutely obedient in residency? Did you forget you were in the army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 "Professionalism" - that all encompassing bull-$hit word for anything that doesn't involve wholeheartedly toeing the line - issues will certainly be on your MSRP. I mean, if you can't toe the line in medical school, how could you possible be meek and absolutely obedient in residency? Did you forget you were in the army? LOL, luvz it....totally agree after going through the paramedic program myself and watching my classmates' experiences. Honestly, whenever I hear some "unprofessionalism" complaint, my eyes automatically roll back into my skull, because 99% of the time it means those around you couldn't handle the fact that you were totally competent and had to find something to pick on in order to try and take you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgray2 Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 so i only read up to the first post in the second page of responses. sorry if someone has repeated this answer before ... i had a negative comment (and horrible rotation) early on in clerkship. not so much a comment, but a novella filled with horrible things in an evaluation. and it sucked that it was included in the mspr (i know this because an interviewer at one of the schools asked me about it). however, as it was early on in the year, i asked each preceptor from then on to write very positive comments specifically addressing those issues ... and then some. so while the negative comments were still there, they were balanced out almost word for word and comment for comment by many other preceptors, making that one individual preceptor look like an outlier. i think that often times, students are afraid to ask for much needed positive comments. if we do poorly, preceptors are motivated and have the examples in mind to write pages of negative comments in your evaluation. if we do well ... they're at a loss for words and will write one line ("excellent student"). if you did well in the rotation, simply asking "hey, what did you think of the thoroughness of my physical exams?" or "do you think i conducted myself professionally during this rotation?" and then following it up with "can you write that as a comment in my evaluation?" will often give you what you want. i do realize that it puts the preceptor on the spot, making it hard for them to say no ... but we have to be fair to ourselves too, right? -jg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 so i only read up to the first post in the second page of responses. sorry if someone has repeated this answer before ... i had a negative comment (and horrible rotation) early on in clerkship. not so much a comment, but a novella filled with horrible things in an evaluation. and it sucked that it was included in the mspr (i know this because an interviewer at one of the schools asked me about it). however, as it was early on in the year, i asked each preceptor from then on to write very positive comments specifically addressing those issues ... and then some. so while the negative comments were still there, they were balanced out almost word for word and comment for comment by many other preceptors, making that one individual preceptor look like an outlier. i think that often times, students are afraid to ask for much needed positive comments. if we do poorly, preceptors are motivated and have the examples in mind to write pages of negative comments in your evaluation. if we do well ... they're at a loss for words and will write one line ("excellent student"). if you did well in the rotation, simply asking "hey, what did you think of the thoroughness of my physical exams?" or "do you think i conducted myself professionally during this rotation?" and then following it up with "can you write that as a comment in my evaluation?" will often give you what you want. i do realize that it puts the preceptor on the spot, making it hard for them to say no ... but we have to be fair to ourselves too, right? -jg I think that's really great advice. And yes, people are way more motivated to write extensively detailed negative comments than positive. I even had my paramedic preceptor tell me a few times "You did amazing on that call, but I HAVE to write something bad about you every time otherwise it looks like you are not learning anything on your calls." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj89 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I think that's really great advice. And yes, people are way more motivated to write extensively detailed negative comments than positive. I even had my paramedic preceptor tell me a few times "You did amazing on that call, but I HAVE to write something bad about you every time otherwise it looks like you are not learning anything on your calls." that's retarded. just the fact that you did amazing should mean that you've been consistently learning and applying your skills/knowledge appropriately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oops2010 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Hi again - thank you all for the advice and glad to know there are people who have gone through the same thing. I especially like the idea of asking future preceptors "how did you think I did ...." and then asking them to comment on that specifically - great idea, will definitely utilize that. Still very afraid though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Hope it works out for you. Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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