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Can you clarify things for me, what exactly is a "terrible" GPA? Below 3.8? 3.7? I hope a 3.75 (out of 4.0) isn't considered "terrible".

 

well even using the word terrible is a bit demoralizing. I guess grades less than 3.7-3.75 ish might be considered not really competitive?

 

Although you have to factor in the various weighting schemes, drop course policies, best two years, MCAT scores.........

 

3.75 gets you past the cut offs at western so I cannot call that "terrible".

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Can you clarify things for me, what exactly is a "terrible" GPA? Below 3.8? 3.7? I hope a 3.75 (out of 4.0) isn't considered "terrible".

 

I wouldnt say 3.75 is terrible, but there are lots of applicants with higher GPAs. At most schools, its not just your GPA that counts. As long as you meet cutoffs, a very good interview, MCAT scores, and lots of ECs can balance out a poor GPA. You can definately get in with a 3.75 somewhere as long as you work hard at all the other stuff.

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Can you clarify things for me, what exactly is a "terrible" GPA? Below 3.8? 3.7? I hope a 3.75 (out of 4.0) isn't considered "terrible".

 

Terrible's a really subjective term, but I guess to give you an idea of what my take of GPAs are, I guess I'll just write out below what I think certain ranges of GPAs mean (all of these are on the OMSAS scale):

 

<3.0 = You don't have a prayer at a Canadian med school, and even some international schools (carribean, Ireland) may consider your GPA a liability. If you messed up this undergrad so bad, don't even bother doing a second.

 

3.0 - 3.2 = You're still out in the cold for Canada, unless you've got a PhD in another field and have another MAJOR EC contribution (olympics, concert pianist, etc.), because only then will you get through with a u of t/Mac reevaluation. You will get into International schools, but still not likely an MD in the US (although you can maybe do a DO).

 

3.2 - 3.5 = So.... You didn't do TERRIBLE, but you're still left out in the cold, unless you live in a place that has IP status (and even then, you'd better have a solid MCAT/EC/ABS). You should be set for International schools, maybe (big maybe) some US MDs, but you're good to go for DO. It is worth your while to devote the time to a second UG, especially if you managed to clean up your act in the back half of your degree and have proven you've got the right stuff.

 

3.5 - 3.8 = [FULL DISCLOSURE: This is the range I'm in] Competitive IP (or, at least your GPA isn't a liability). I wouldn't resort to international schools if I were in this range, since it's possible that you'll be accepted if you grind out a few application cycles. MD in the US is likely. Some OOP schools may interview you (Calgary with a great MCAT, as well as Queen's and Western if you're at the upper extreme of this range). If you want to strengthen your app and open a few more doors, do a second UG and really work your ass off.

 

3.8 - 4.0 = Likely to be interviewed at all schools, except for maybe USask OOP and perhaps U of Ottawa, depending on your year GPA. As long as you have a good MCAT, you can almost be guaranteed an interview at any IP school, and can also be confident to have an interview at many OOP schools. Don't bother with a second UG/Master's/whatever. If you don't get in first cycle, find out why, and work on that. It's not the GPA holding you back.

 

 

Disclaimer: Once you get to the interview, it's anybody's guess.

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Good summary, but you're overstating the 3.8-4.0 range just a bit. I know a number of people in this grade range, including myself who have not received interviews from one or more schools. This is despite great LORs and fantastic ECs.

I know two people who both have 4.0s without any weighting and who have both shadowed and volunteered in hospitals since early high school who each didn't get interviews at one school.

 

That said, it's still true that it's not grades holding you back at that level.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your friends, they must have been (justifiably) very upset. I think that's a legit description though. Your friends had every right to be CONFIDENT to get interviews (even though it didn't work out). Also, if they were IP candidates, something must have gone really really bad for them to not be interviewed. If you have a 4.0/4.0 and a solid MCAT/ECs, it's LIKELY you'll be interviewed everywhere.

 

And who knows, maybe it's a blessing in disguise to be rejected from the 3.8-4.0 range, because then you can pursue your dream job of dentistry (right malk? ;) )

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I'm sorry to hear about your friends, they must have been (justifiably) very upset. I think that's a legit description though. Your friends had every right to be CONFIDENT to get interviews (even though it didn't work out). Also, if they were IP candidates, something must have gone really really bad for them to not be interviewed. If you have a 4.0/4.0 and a solid MCAT/ECs, it's LIKELY you'll be interviewed everywhere.

 

And who knows, maybe it's a blessing in disguise to be rejected from the 3.8-4.0 range, because then you can pursue your dream job of dentistry (right malk? ;) )

 

zinger!

 

At most schools, its not just your GPA that counts. .

 

I doubt ANY schools will let you in based only on GPA

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sry i have to rant:(

 

looking at all those great stats getting rejected is really frightening, it's kinda scary to wonder wut kind of competition there must be involved....i used to think an omsas gpa of 3.8 is not bad, then looking at all those 3.9++'s (:eek:) make me cringe....

 

Well... at some schools... past cutoffs, GPA does not matter. At other schools, GPA is really important. At some, it's a combination of gpa and rest of application.

 

The bottom line is that, yes, a great GPA boosts your chances tremendously. However, it is not the be all and end all of medical school admission and there are plenty of people on here with lower GPAs who have gotten in. Just try not to worry about it - especially with a 3.8.

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I don't know w8 IP maritimes is one thing, if your an IP in ontario even the 3.8-3.9 (which i'm in) doesn't make me feel too confident about mac, u of t, and for sure ottawa.

 

I'd say the scales should be more like

 

<3.6 not much of a chance

3.6 - 3.75 a chance if your IP anywhere but maybe ontario and BC

3.75-3.9 - somewhat competitive especially IP non ontario and BC

3.9+ - should be good everywhere.

 

my two cents though, like I said before, it's tough out there.

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I don't know w8 IP maritimes is one thing, if your an IP in ontario even the 3.8-3.9 (which i'm in) doesn't make me feel too confident about mac, u of t, and for sure ottawa.

 

I'd say the scales should be more like

 

<3.6 not much of a chance

3.6 - 3.75 a chance if your IP anywhere but maybe ontario and BC

3.75-3.9 - somewhat competitive especially IP non ontario and BC

3.9+ - should be good everywhere.

 

my two cents though, like I said before, it's tough out there.

 

And that's just a very rough outline anyway. You could have a 2.00 and have an awesome last 2 years and get into Queen's (or similarly, any two really good years and get into UWO). You could have a much lower than average GPA and do grad work and be considered at U of T. Just to reiterate what I stated earlier - a very high GPA really boosts your chances, but you can still get in with a lower one!

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IMO if one gets into med school, he/she still ain't the sh!t. I give no more respect to med students than I do to others. It just means they played the admissions game (yes its a game) and came out on top. Others who may have been equally or even more worthy just got caught in a trap elsewhere. A lot like anything else in life really. Its not really a "fair" system. :rolleyes:

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IMO if one gets into med school, he/she still ain't the sh!t. I give no more respect to med students than I do to others. It just means they played the admissions game (yes its a game) and came out on top. Others who may have been equally or even more worthy just got caught in a trap elsewhere. A lot like anything else in life really. Its not really a "fair" system. :rolleyes:

 

ya i agree 100%

 

that's why i advocate strategic course selection to max gpa because this whole system is f*cked by lack of funding.

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IMO if one gets into med school, he/she still ain't the sh!t. I give no more respect to med students than I do to others. It just means they played the admissions game (yes its a game) and came out on top. Others who may have been equally or even more worthy just got caught in a trap elsewhere. A lot like anything else in life really. Its not really a "fair" system. :rolleyes:

 

Fair enough, but I object to the notion that I had to play some kind of cynical game to "come out on top". I didn't even decide to apply to medicine until the first year of my masters. I completely agree that the system is not fair and for a large group of applicants becomes little better than a lottery.

 

Not sure why med students would in any case be more or less deserving of respect anyway. We are still completely awesome though.

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IMO if one gets into med school, he/she still ain't the sh!t. I give no more respect to med students than I do to others. It just means they played the admissions game (yes its a game) and came out on top. Others who may have been equally or even more worthy just got caught in a trap elsewhere. A lot like anything else in life really. Its not really a "fair" system. :rolleyes:

 

I would say JUST because they got into med school they aren't necessarily super beings - although some of the people I have run into are just plan amazing.

 

No system is perfect, but compared to a lot of other things in life med school applications fairer perhaps. At least the rules are out in the open from the start of the "game", and a lot of steps are used to reduce bias. Still can be improved though, as it is still a bit of a lottery though for sure.

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Why do I classify the admissions system as a game? Well because its so directly comparable to a RTS game. First of all you got your stats. Thats such a game term, lol. Then you go do your ECs, research, etc. to buff up your application, and the more amazing your stuff (ex: first author pub) the better your chances at succeeding. Kinda like obtaining some amazing weapon in a game. After that you go do your applications and interviews, like you're going to implement w/e the hell you've spent time obtaining in a game. Finally theres always a chance that you can still lose despite what seems like a sure win, as anybody who plays a lot of RTS games knows. :rolleyes: Its all strategy. Strategy is how you overcome poor stats to get into med.

 

Although I'm cynical of the "game", there is one up-shot to it. People that seemingly have no chance can randomly get accepted, even after failing many times. Gives us all hope. :)

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Why do I classify the admissions system as a game? Well because its so directly comparable to a RTS game. First of all you got your stats. Thats such a game term, lol. Then you go do your ECs, research, etc. to buff up your application, and the more amazing your stuff (ex: first author pub) the better your chances at succeeding. Kinda like obtaining some amazing weapon in a game. After that you go do your applications and interviews, like you're going to implement w/e the hell you've spent time obtaining in a game. Finally theres always a chance that you can still lose despite what seems like a sure win, as anybody who plays a lot of RTS games knows. :rolleyes: Its all strategy. Strategy is how you overcome poor stats to get into med.

 

Although I'm cynical of the "game", there is one up-shot to it. People that seemingly have no chance can randomly get accepted, even after failing many times. Gives us all hope. :)

 

To be honest, the whole 'stats', 'obtaining an amazing weapon' and 'buff' things that you're refering to make it sound more like an MMORPG than and RTS... but I'm a hardcore gamer, so maybe I'm just being picky :P.

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Yes, this board is filled with people with high grades, and yes I felt inadequate reading nearly every post about someone's GPA.

 

My GPA was 3.71 and I fared alright. Admittedly, I only received one interview (Queen's), but one is all you need.

 

If were to go back in time to 2001, I'd work harder to push my grades up to the 3.8 level to get away from my borderline numbers.

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Why do I classify the admissions system as a game? Well because its so directly comparable to a RTS game. First of all you got your stats. Thats such a game term, lol. Then you go do your ECs, research, etc. to buff up your application, and the more amazing your stuff (ex: first author pub) the better your chances at succeeding. Kinda like obtaining some amazing weapon in a game. After that you go do your applications and interviews, like you're going to implement w/e the hell you've spent time obtaining in a game. Finally theres always a chance that you can still lose despite what seems like a sure win, as anybody who plays a lot of RTS games knows. :rolleyes: Its all strategy. Strategy is how you overcome poor stats to get into med.

 

Although I'm cynical of the "game", there is one up-shot to it. People that seemingly have no chance can randomly get accepted, even after failing many times. Gives us all hope. :)

 

someone who has really good gpa/ECs/research would be likened to an epic'ed out character from WoW - they're strong as hell, and have all the best gear. They would be the most likely pick to go on a heroic pub raid, or to join the best guild on the server.

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the closest approximation I've heard of for med apps is a lottery in which every aspect you add to your application is like adding more tickets. you get a better shot than most (statistically speaking) by having a higher gpa/mcat/EC's/statement/LoR/interview experience but in the end without a probability-type system, there is no way to explain the anomalies

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the closest approximation I've heard of for med apps is a lottery in which every aspect you add to your application is like adding more tickets. you get a better shot than most (statistically speaking) by having a higher gpa/mcat/EC's/statement/LoR/interview experience but in the end without a probability-type system, there is no way to explain the anomalies

 

Interesting comparisons. Now that I think about it, I would say its a game to a certain point, it definitely felt like a game in undergrad trying to save up 'premed keener points' haha. I feel like once you reach a certain competitive level post interview when everyone seems competent then it felt like a lottery! Why did I get in and not some of my friends who were equal if not better than my application? Lottery!

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It can seem that way, but the stat postings are biased I think. People with lower stats tend not to post them, and I don't think the board poster are particular representative of the general premed population either.

 

If seeing people with higher stats encourages you to get higher grades -great! If not remember lots of people get in with "lower stats" :)

 

i agree, and (to throw a wrench in it) I thought i'd share the story of my friend, who will be starting med school this fall:

 

26 years old, got first round admission to the only two schools she applied (U of T and McMaster) to on her first try. MPH and undergrand in english; no science pre-reqs either! 3.4 cgpa.

 

in some ways, hearing that kinda sucked, because it gave me hope that i'd get in, when perhaps it might have been easier to have my hopes crushed entirely. :) it would certainly have been cheaper.

 

notice how, on the mcmaster website, it mentions those 3-4 students (9 students, once upon a time) that got in with a cgpa of 3.0-3.5? obviously, don't bank on that being you... but it was someone, and that someone could be you. it could be me! ;) and if your gpa is even higher, so much the better.

 

yes, it's hard to stay motivated when you can't go back in time to change your gpa, and you're competing against people who 3.99's who have planned for this all their lives. but i think at a certain point, you either decide to try or not try, and then play the cards you've got, and don't worry about the gpa's that other people have. knowing that they have 4.0's won't change your 3.7 or 3.5 or 3.0... so, if you've decided you're going to try med school, and you meet the posted cut-off, apply, and don't think twice about making the cut off. and then, come back here and post about it, so we all feel a bit better about ourselves! (the process of making the decision, however, is the subject of another post!). :D

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yes, it's hard to stay motivated when you can't go back in time to change your gpa, and you're competing against people who 3.99's who have planned for this all their lives. but i think at a certain point, you either decide to try or not try, and then play the cards you've got, and don't worry about the gpa's that other people have. knowing that they have 4.0's won't change your 3.7 or 3.5 or 3.0... so, if you've decided you're going to try med school, and you meet the posted cut-off, apply, and don't think twice about making the cut off. and then, come back here and post about it, so we all feel a bit better about ourselves! (the process of making the decision, however, is the subject of another post!). :D

 

That's really inspiring, I agree with you on this. Thanks!

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