PanPan Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hi, I'm applying to U of T for Fall 2010. I'm wondering about my referees. Obviously you want to have at least one academic reference and one non academic reference. I have that. I'm trying to decide on the third one. I can get pretty good letters from another academic source, or another non-academic source. Does anyone have any ideas as to what U of T is looking for. Right now I'm leaning towards 1 academic and 2 non academic. My reasoning is all my academic references know me about the same, and in very similar settings/contexts. I'm kind of guessing that my 2 academic references would essentially say the same thing, just speaking about different research projects I worked on. On the other hand, the two non academic references would be pretty different, so I feel like I would 'get more' material out of them. However, maybe U of T likes lots of letters from research supervisors with lots of letters after their names? I have this vague notion that U of T is a more research based school, but maybe that is totally wrong? I'm applying to MD/PhD as well, if that matters (you get another 3 LORs specific to research, but the med committee doesn't see them I don't think.) Thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I believe your gut approach is the best approach to follow, i.e., one academic only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanPan Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 OK. That's definitely my first take. I'm just a little worried that maybe they'll think: 'hmm, this guy only did one research project' or 'he can't find a PhD to write this?'. Which is not the case. But maybe that will come across in the sketch, and employment history etc. where I show all the projects I did etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Forget it. If it will make you feel better, I have zero research projects, I barely know how to spell research. When you get to the interview stage, it will all come pouring out. My strength is many hundreds of hours with patients in EMS and other therapeutic work, plus national awards in ECs, plus academics. We each come to the table with different backgrounds. Also, we need to market ourselves in our Essay or we are dead in the water. BTW, I will have only one academic reference, all they can really say is that I am an excellent student with consistently top grades, but they don't know me. So, I am going to others who can give "s t r o n g" references which is what is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanPan Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Ya, I agree totally. Thanks, guess I just needed to hear it from someone else. You sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders, and maybe a bit more 'perspective' than some other people: aka you're not pulling your hair out because you don't have a paper in Nature, and a reference letter from the head of the CMA. Its nice to see. Good luck to you. PS. If there's anyone out there who has anything else to say on this subject, I would still love to hear your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carefree Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I can't speak from the perspective of an MD/PhD applicant, but I was in a similar situation when applying for the MD Program. I went with one academic and two non-academic (character) references. I think the quality of the letter matters a great deal more than who it's from. Even my academic reference did not comment on research, I just new him from a few lecture-based courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hey PanPan, to navigate this application process and figure out on our own what is important, what is not, who to listen to, who to ignore, you got to have a good head on your shoulders. Knowing what to do and how to do it in a manner that best markets you, without prior training, is an accomplishment in and of itself - which only gets us to the front door, haha, when the process starts all over again. We are playing a real life game of 'musical chairs' and need to move swiftily at all times, lol. I also understand with absolute clarity in this game of musical chairs no matter how smart we may be, luck plays a critical factor. And, if you don't succeed at first, try, try again. To get in, we need a good head, perspective, to be relaxed about it and l u c k! We probably all would make excellent doctors and yet, it is a lottery in the end where academics only get you a ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanPan Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Thanks for your reply Carefree. And future_doc, i agree, its a bit of a lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveSense Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I think it depends on the rest of your application. For mine, I had pretty low undergrad marks, so I had 6 prof references and no non-academic one. However, my supervisor wrote extensively on my character and less so on my academic ability. I went this route because I felt I had to make up for my low undergrad marks, and if I had all these profs it may allay their questions about my academic ability. But keep in mind that I have done extensive work for all 6 of my references... these arn't people who have just taught me in class, they're people who i have collaborated with and such. I think that is the most important, to have references who know you very well.. if the choice is between an academic who taught you a course or two or a non-academic one who knows you for many years, I'd go with the latter. Just my 2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanPan Posted August 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 All my academics would be people I'd done research with, for at least a four month full time summer period. Just out of curiousity, how did you get 6 references into your applications. All the canadian schools I've seen only will accept 3. Are you talking AMCAS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endeavour Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 All my academics would be people I'd done research with, for at least a four month full time summer period. Just out of curiousity, how did you get 6 references into your applications. All the canadian schools I've seen only will accept 3. Are you talking AMCAS? No, the person was probably a grad applicant. Grads get 3 extra LORs if they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maadaputtar Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Hey, If you feel that both your academic references will say the same thing, then you should go with 2 'different' non-academics. Since I am a grad student, I am using my supervisor to talk about my grad stuff (academic) and an undergrad prof to talk about my undergrad stuff (academic). I feel this way I can cover the most ground in terms of my character and academic capabilities. Since I am a grad student, I will have a chance to send in more reference letters later, where I will get a physician to write a character reference. The reason I cannot ask her now is because I just recently started shadowing her and thus she doesn't know me in the capacity to write a strong letter. Hopefully, by December, she would. sorry for talking about my own letters. long story short, go with 2 non-academics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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