foregoneconclusion Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I've seen so many amazing candidates not get into Canadian medical schools. They've gone off to Ireland, Australia, SGU and SABA and only time will tell whether they will succeed. On the other hand, I've seen a lot of gigangtic d-bags get into Canadian medical schools and it leaves me scratching my head. I always thought I had the chops for Canadian medical school. I received two interviews last year (two more than a lot of people I know) but now, sitting with 2 rejections (after having been waitlisted for months), I can only say that I can't be comfortable with any aspect of this process. It's not like I'm taking no blame, maybe I did screw up the interviews but the fact is, I gave them a picture of myself, I had them laughing, one of the interviews went over the time allotted, I don't know anything I could have done differently. In the end, I feel like luck plays too big a role in Canadian admissions. This round, I could be unlucky again, I could get someone who just doesn't like me and that is disconcerting. 10 years of work coming down to one day and luck of the draw? What's worse is that the two schools I didn't get into didn't bother telling me "why". I've got a 3.8, my best 2 years are closer to a 3.9. I have a 10/11/12/R. My research experience was during a 4th year thesis (8 months), my extracurrics were extensive in school-based activities (heading student councils, orientation teams, lots of creative writing), my volunteering is pretty good (children's hospitals, high schools), I have about 1800 hours of clinical experience (worked full time for a year at a private practice). I just don't know what to do. I don't want to think that I'm "too good" for the caribbean and after this process I don't think that anyone can really turn their nose up to anyone who has to go elsewhere for a medical education. Does anyone have any advice about where I should go next? Australia? Ireland? If money wasn't an issue (but it sort of is) where would be the best place to go next year to end up back in Canada? I have hopes to start a family here and leaving for 4-8 years would be extremely rough. In the future, I envision myself as a paediatrician in a private practice. I graduated in 2008 with the intention of taking a year off. For that reason, I am 23 but have only been rejected by Canadian schools once. Will a second time be that different? I'm from Toronto so I don't get any perks to get in. I applied to 5 schools OOP and not even an interview. Just trying to give you a full background. Thanks anyone who actually read all of this. I've just got a lot to think about at the moment. Edit: I applied to the States last year as well, but it was really late in the game (secondaries submitted in October/November, I knew little about the process) and I can see how some of my application last year wasn't very strong. I have been complete for about a month now for about 10 American schools and so far, have only heard 1 rejection. Again, feeding into the negative feelings about this process. Edit: See page 6 for an update 9 months later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I don't think you should consider international routes until you've tried Canada at least twice. I also got rejected after both of my interviews last year (well, waitlist ---> rejection at Queen's), but this year I got into my 1st choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I don't think you should consider international routes until you've tried Canada at least twice. I also got rejected after both of my interviews last year (well, waitlist ---> rejection at Queen's), but this year I got into my 1st choice. What did you do differently? What would you have done if it didn't happen this year? How did you get over the feeling of rejection (sorry if I sound emo but I feel like I've been slapped in the face, told "No, you're not good enough")? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lll Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I hear you. I was just thinking about this process over lunch because thast when i heard some really good candidates from my class are staring class in the carib and ireland. I'm in the saem boat as you except that I'm doing a special yr at western. I dont know what to tell you. But did u apply tot he states?? I'm not saying u'll get in for sure but u still have a chance. I would say maximize ur chances. Use the resources to the fullest. Then if u still dont get in and med is what u want then go 2 carib. In the carib its 2 yrs class work and then for rotations u can come to NA hospitals where u'll be close to home. This is what i'm thinking. I maybe wrong. But i really hope things work out for us this time. But pls consider the States. ________ Honda NS400R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I noticed that nowhere in your post did you mention American med schools. Have you considered going to the states? I can't speak from experience, but from looking at the American forum, it seems that there are some schools who will take canadians with similar stats as yourself. I can imagine that it must be discouraging not to get in this cycle, but I think that it's premature of you to have an attitude of defeat. People try upwards of 3 or 4+ times before they get accepted. They keep applying because they know that medicine is what they want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer08 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 uhm i dont see why you shouldn't apply again... you've got it all... a competitive gpa, not bad mcat, gr8 extracirricular activities... and now you've also got experience of medschool interviews... i think you should have a positive feeling this time and be confident of getting in. Just wondering, did you apply to most of the universities in canada or only some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 uhm i dont see why you shouldn't apply again... you've got it all... a competitive gpa, not bad mcat, gr8 extracirricular activities... and now you've also got experience of medschool interviews... i think you should have a positive feeling this time and be confident of getting in. Just wondering, did you apply to most of the universities in canada or only some? Last year, I applied to Uoft, Mcmaster, Ottawa, UWO, Queen's, Dalhousie, Memorial, University of Alberta, and University of Calgary. I got interviews at UWO and Queens. Waitlisted for both. I was surprised to not get any love from UofT because I felt like my essay was solid. Memorial didn't even bother giving me the courtesy of sending me anything after I sent in my application. I am thinking of trying for Mcgill and Manitoba this year and not bothering with reapplying to those other schools OOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Keep trying! In the meantime, have a back-up plan, so you can continue on with your life while you submit your applications each year. FUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 the whole admissions process to medicine is bs and arbitrary, the process as well as the overly arduous 4 yr path to getting admitted sure made me cynical... n i got in 2 out of 2 off wait lists so... try again, admissions is just a bs rat race game and not so much who who would make a dec doc ... and a lot comes down to luck well said by the expert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 the whole admissions process to medicine is bs and arbitrary, the process as well as the overly arduous 4 yr path to getting admitted sure made me cynical... n i got in 2 out of 2 off wait lists so... try again, admissions is just a bs rat race game and not so much who who would make a dec doc ... and a lot comes down to luck What if the fourth time didn't work out? What would you have done then? Would spending a couple years trying to get back into Canada from abroad be a more productive goal?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 There are more good applicants than there are spots. Apply broadly (including the States, as others have mentioned), and hone your interview skills. G'luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 To the OP: I don't understand why you didn't get in, you sound like a great candidate. Med admissions is a crapshoot overall. It's a game. You have to learn to play the game. I definitely don't look as good as you on paper in terms of ECs but I had similar stats. I applied as a 3rd year student and got 2 interviews and 2 rejections. In 4th year, I got 3 interviews in Canada, 3 interviews in the US (even though I applied late - secondaries completed oct/nov) and was accepted at every school I interviewed at (US acceptances came 3-5 weeks after interview). The difference? I learned to play the game. I know it's vague but I honestly don't know how else to put it! Feel free to PM me if you'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 The difference? I learned to play the game. I know it's vague but I honestly don't know how else to put it! On paper I look like absolute pants, but here I am a pgy-1. I agree with Madz: it's a game, it has rules and knowing what those rules are helps you to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireWarden Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 As a first time applicant to Canadian schools this thread is somewhat unnerving... Rules? I know it may be hard to explain...but is it possible to elaborate just a wee bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 There are more good applicants than there are spots. Apply broadly (including the States, as others have mentioned), and hone your interview skills. G'luck Any tips on how to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Any tips on how to do this? Familiarize yourself with the CanMeds roles. Be able to articulate how your experiences illustrate said roles. Have a list of stories that illustrate your personal qualities and competencies. They all don't have to end with rainbows and butterflies, but they should all show how you have insight into your personality and interactions with others, and how you are improving yourself and how you grew from your experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Familiarize yourself with the CanMeds roles. Be able to articulate how your experiences illustrate said roles. Have a list of stories that illustrate your personal qualities and competencies. They all don't have to end with rainbows and butterflies, but they should all show how you have insight into your personality and interactions with others, and how you are improving yourself and how you grew from your experiences. well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 What did you do differently? What would you have done if it didn't happen this year? How did you get over the feeling of rejection (sorry if I sound emo but I feel like I've been slapped in the face, told "No, you're not good enough")? Well, last year I didn't expect to get in, anyway, so it wasn't some huge shock, and I was already preparing for another round by going back to school for another 30 credits to raise my grades (I have a low GPA). Also, I took an EMT/paramedic course both to get more healthcare experience and as a potential backup career (didn't like it). I also did some research that year, since I only had humanities research. If I didn't get in this year, I would've gone to the oilpatch to work as a medic, since it pays well and I had a fair bit of debt, and then I was considering grad school after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 What if the fourth time didn't work out? What would you have done then? Would spending a couple years trying to get back into Canada from abroad be a more productive goal?? LOL, he was referring to the BSc degree, not applying 4 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Last year, I applied to Uoft, Mcmaster, Ottawa, UWO, Queen's, Dalhousie, Memorial, University of Alberta, and University of Calgary. I got interviews at UWO and Queens. Waitlisted for both. I was surprised to not get any love from UofT because I felt like my essay was solid. Memorial didn't even bother giving me the courtesy of sending me anything after I sent in my application. I am thinking of trying for Mcgill and Manitoba this year and not bothering with reapplying to those other schools OOP. I reaaaaallly wouldn't bother with McGill. I'd stick with Dal as well since the OOP waitlist tends to move a lot and if you can get an interview with a compelling essay, you'll have a decent chance. Anyway, you should definitely apply again next year. The US remains much more expensive and other schools will make coming back very difficult (though not impossible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star1234 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I've seen so many amazing candidates not get into Canadian medical schools. They've gone off to Ireland, Australia, SGU and SABA and only time will tell whether they will succeed. On the other hand, I've seen a lot of gigangtic d-bags get into Canadian medical schools and it leaves me scratching my head. I haven't posted on here in awhile, but I had to when I saw this thread. I completely agree with you. I volunteer at a Wellness Centre for cancer patients. I've had so many patients tell me they feel as though their doctor doesn't give a rat's a$$ about them. Today another patient told me that she asked her cancer surgeon what she should do after her surgery to help her get back on her feet. His response? "Go home, take a couple of Advil, and resume normal life". Are these the types of people we are letting into our med schools? It kills me to see so many compassionate, qualified people not getting into med and being forced to go overseas/choose alternative career routes when such d-bags are getting in instead. Getting into med school shouldn't be a crap shoot. It should be a fair system that takes the people that would make the best doctors. This clearly isn't the case and it frustrates the hell out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I haven't posted on here in awhile, but I had to when I saw this thread. I completely agree with you. I volunteer at a Wellness Centre for cancer patients. I've had so many patients tell me they feel as though their doctor doesn't give a rat's a$$ about them. Today another patient told me that she asked her cancer surgeon what she should do after her surgery to help her get back on her feet. His response? "Go home, take a couple of Advil, and resume normal life". Are these the types of people we are letting into our med schools? It kills me to see so many compassionate, qualified people not getting into med and being forced to go overseas/choose alternative career routes when such d-bags are getting in instead. Getting into med school shouldn't be a crap shoot. It should be a fair system that takes the people that would make the best doctors. This clearly isn't the case and it frustrates the hell out of me. Maybe there some sort of tone that's missing when this is told over the net, but I don't see anything wrong with the advice he gave her. I mean, what should he have said? "Go home and pity yourself because you are now missing a breast/ovary/chunk of your stomach/etc?" "Live in a bubble"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 i am a haploid sperm... Well, you're screwed right there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star1234 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Maybe there some sort of tone that's missing when this is told over the net, but I don't see anything wrong with the advice he gave her. I mean, what should he have said? "Go home and pity yourself because you are now missing a breast/ovary/chunk of your stomach/etc?" "Live in a bubble"? No, but maybe "You're going to be in pain for a little while so maybe you shouldn't go back to work for a few weeks. Take some time off to physically/mentally recover since getting a large chunk taken out of your breast isn't exactly a walk in the park". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astudentis Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 learn to communicate well, be thorough at explaining your ideas, and be confident. I know, I know, sometimes being confident can be mixed up with being a d-bag, but portray some professionalism in conjecture with your cockiness, and it will work out...(remember to stay relaxed at all times) like others have said, you need to learn to play the game. May I recommend watching some interviews on "The Hour". From your application, only thing i can pick out that might have held you back is your interview performance. Otherwise, your ECs and academics seem good... keep trying for canadian schools at least two more times, before you consider alternative routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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