Mac Health Sci

[Viggy]

hi, i'm new to this forum, and i have a question. i know mac health sci doesn't guarantee anything when it comes to med school, but is GPA easy in that program? and could anyone tell me more about this program and does it prepare you well for the MCAT?

 

and how hard is it to get into the residency of your choice in canada, like your number 1 choice, in comparison with the US?

 

thanks, i know some people may think these questions are dumb, but i really don't know the answers

[nemesis]

hi, i'm new to this forum, and i have a question. i know mac health sci doesn't guarantee anything when it comes to med school, but is GPA easy in that program? and could anyone tell me more about this program and does it prepare you well for the MCAT?

 

and how hard is it to get into the residency of your choice in canada, like your number 1 choice, in comparison with the US?

 

thanks, i know some people may think these questions are dumb, but i really don't know the answers

 

Yeah, you're right.

 

 

 

These questions are dumb.

 

Why don't you worry about choosing and completing your undergraduate study and ultimately matriculating into medical school before worrying about residency matching?

[madskillz99]

Obtaining a high GPA in Mac Health Sci is reflective of the student, not the program (there are the odd courses which are not marks-oriented in which case, yes the marks are easier to come by). But by and large, if the averages are higher in health sci courses, its because the students are high achievers to begin with.

 

As for the MCAT, yes health sci prepares you well; moreso with your critical-thinking and reasoning abilities, and less so with hard content which can be picked up in a matter of weeks.

[2011hope]

Obtaining a high GPA in Mac Health Sci is reflective of the student, not the program (there are the odd courses which are not marks-oriented in which case, yes the marks are easier to come by). But by and large, if the averages are higher in health sci courses, its because the students are high achievers to begin with.

 

As for the MCAT, yes health sci prepares you well; moreso with your critical-thinking and reasoning abilities, and less so with hard content which can be picked up in a matter of weeks.

 

What he/she said.

[Coach]

Yeah, you're right.

 

 

 

These questions are dumb.

 

Why don't you worry about choosing and completing your undergraduate study and ultimately matriculating into medical school before worrying about residency matching?

 

Why be so harsh with the poster? It's probable that the person is still in high school and looking for the best UG degree route to follow.

[Coach]

hi, i'm new to this forum, and i have a question. i know mac health sci doesn't guarantee anything when it comes to med school, but is GPA easy in that program? I've read a lot of postings where mac health sci is accused of being easy but I doubt that to be true. The curriculum appears to be challenging and getting accepted in the first place is tough (you need >90% average). You will need to work hard.

 

and could anyone tell me more about this program and does it prepare you well for the MCAT? I would say yes it will help prepare for MCAT, but even the brightest of pre-med students do a lot of extra studies before the MCAT. The actual courses offered during the 4 years will cover all the prerequisites of the Canadian medical schools.

 

and how hard is it to get into the residency of your choice in canada, like your number 1 choice, in comparison with the US? Really depends on what you #1 choice is going to be. If you are looking for Family Medicine then it is the easiest to match into; if you want a competitive residency like optho, derm or maybe plastics then it is very difficult to get your #1 choice. I would say both countries have similar challenges in matching success. Yes, the USA has more residency places but also much more applicants... especially when you factor in the IMGs who rotate through the USA during clerkship years.

thanks, i know some people may think these questions are dumb, but i really don't know the answers

 

Hi there - answers in red.

[itimebomb2]

I've talked about this before. But it needs reminding. There are concerns about grade inflation at MAC Health Sciences everywhere, including the admission staff at McMaster Medical school itself. The class average for essentially all health science courses, even first year classes, is 11 out of 12...or a 3.90 (about 87%). The class average in some programs with similar admission averages from high school, at other universities, hovers in the 65-70% range. With a bit of hard work, a 3.90 is essentially guranteed for most health science students in the exclusive courses, allowing them time to study and concentrate on the courses outside the program they take.

 

Ontario is well known for grade inflation in high school to begin with. Some universities in other provinces lower Ontario marks by 6%. 40% of Ontario high school graduates have A average, compared to 20% in Alberta, and 5-6% in the UK (about 10 years ago).

http://www.fims.uwo.ca/newmedia2006/default.asp?id=424

 

The department of sociology has tracked grade inflation at the university level as well. In fact, in their courses, they now SET class averages at the beginning to prevent grade inflation.

 

http://sociology.uwo.ca/courses/2009/1020-001Luton.pdf

average set at 65-68, no matter what

In order to get the average health science course average (88%) in that course, you'd basically have to be the best student in a class of 500!!!

 

UWO also followed the first yr chem class averages over 20+ years. They found the class average ROSE by 10 or so % over 20 years, BUT the class average on a common exam given, DROPPED over 20 years. Higher marks for poorer performance.

 

What university programs have comparable averages to the 90% health sci MINIMUM? The only ones that exist in my mind are engineering programs (i.e. Waterloo) - you can't compare engineering marks to health sciences marks - they are on different scales. You have to compare a sciences student to another science student.

 

Having gone to school in the UK and Canada, I know for a fact that UK schools are graded on an entirely different scale. Again, an inappropriate comparison.

 

Isn't it possible that Ontarians are more academically focused that Albertans? We represent a huge proportion of urban dwellers - high numbers of private schools - high numbers of visible minorities, known to have a cultural focus on academics...

 

How can you compare uwo sociology with mac health sci? The reality is that the average Mcmaster Health sci will take a course in sociology and still be at the top of the class. I'm a health sci, and I get As in social sciences courses - and its because I bust my ass, whereas the average soc sci is a dumbass. But again, that's besides the point. You can't compare sociology marks with science marks. It's a fundamental mindset - scientists are expected to get the right answers. Sociologists are trained to think laterally. They aren't on the same scale.

[FifthBusiness]

DesCartes,

 

Where do your stats come from? There is no way that %40 of Ontario graduates have an A average. It doesn't say that in that online blog you posted, which to me has no credibility at all.

I'm from Ontario and went to an out of province school. It was obvious that while Ontarians were roughly on par with those from other provinces in terms of mathematical abilities, students from Ontario are generally well above average in writing ability. This was the case despite the fact that my 85 high school average was considered garbage compared to the in province's students' 90+ averages.

In fact, this was discussed in one of my sociology courses (bird elective course). The prof said that it was obvious if a student was from Ontario because our writing abilities were superior. The students from other provinces agreed that they hadn't been trained to quite the same level.

I don't doubt that grade inflation is a concern; it clearly is. When I was a TA for first year courses, the students couldn't believe that they were getting 60-70's on their terrible lab reports. But there is no way this is just confined to Ontario. You only showed a study discussing grade inflation in Ontario. Instead of basing opinions on garbage online editorials like the one you posted, how about finding some actual academic literature that not only tracks grade inflation in Ontario but everywhere else in Canada. By basing your opinion on a piece that focuses on Ontario, you seem to have blinded yourself to the fact that this is likely happening everywhere else.

[Viggy]

hi everyone, thanks for all the input, i came home from school today and to see all the advice/answers was great!

 

so i get a sense that Health Sci might be a little easier than other programs, regardless of grade inflation or not, it seems that way by what previous posters said

 

also, i understand that the difficulty of getting into a tough residency would be basically equally as difficult here as in the US.(i'm thinking about orthopedics, anesthesiology or plastics....but that could all change) i realize these are the tougher residencies

 

so with all that said, what would be the best route:

a) go to a US undergrad and apply to med school there and in Canada

go to McMaster or Western (or any other ontario university) and apply to US and Canadian med schools

 

is there any advantage of choosing one of these routes (ill probably go to wayne state university in Michigan for Undergrad if i choose the US route)

 

***do US med schools care where you did your undergrad?

***for residency in the US do they care where you went to med school?

[sgt.pepper]

In high school, I think they should have standardized final exams after each semester/term for each class worth 40% of the final mark in that course. Those exams should be multiple choice (with SA if you want to pay qualified people to mark them although it costs $$$). Then all the term work can be marked by the teacher which is worth 60%.

 

And Mac health sci and all those other prestigious programs should all be second entry programs, like U of T does with their pathobiology specialist program. For those who don't know about this, pathobiology has a usual 1st year entrance gpa of around 3.9. They only accept 30 people and a good percentage of those people go on to med school or phds.

 

I think health sci may inflate the avg of bit but those kids are smart to begin with and they have a higher percent that goes to med than other schools because they are above the average student.

[sgt.pepper]

hi everyone, thanks for all the input, i came home from school today and to see all the advice/answers was great!

 

so i get a sense that Health Sci might be a little easier than other programs, regardless of grade inflation or not, it seems that way by what previous posters said

 

also, i understand that the difficulty of getting into a tough residency would be basically equally as difficult here as in the US.(i'm thinking about orthopedics, anesthesiology or plastics....but that could all change) i realize these are the tougher residencies

 

so with all that said, what would be the best route:

a) go to a US undergrad and apply to med school there and in Canada

go to McMaster or Western (or any other ontario university) and apply to US and Canadian med schools

 

is there any advantage of choosing one of these routes (ill probably go to wayne state university in Michigan for Undergrad if i choose the US route)

 

***do US med schools care where you did your undergrad?

***for residency in the US do they care where you went to med school?

 

From what my american friends tell me americans are more about prestige and stuff then Canadians. For the most part the only schools that they know are UBC, UofT, and Mcgill. So maybe there is an "advantage" to going there. But it's just hearsay.

Why would you want to go to a US ug it is soooo much more expensive. Save that money for med school. And before thinking about residency, get into med school first. Also some advice would be to do some research in a lab before you apply, proffesional schools really like to see that because it shows logical thinking. Plus you can get a LOR. At UofT i did a research course after 1st year and the profs in that area got to know me by first name which never hurts. This summer hopefully ill get accepted to Sick kids for a $5000 grant because of that research experience

[Viggy]

sgt. pepper, i am mainly considering Wayne State as my US option because they offer in-state tuition (ill be paying about 18K USD for my tuition + my residence/place to stay) so, yea, that's basically my main option because it isn't that much more expensive that ontario UG because i am definitely leaving Windsor, it sucks here.

 

yea, i want to do research and volunteer and everything right away. I also plan to play on the baseball team regardless of where I go.

 

could everyone take a look at this link: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

 

its american stats for acceptances and applicants to med school. do those stats seem on par with those in canada? i thought it seemed like more people get in: like look under 3.20-3.39 GPA and under MCAT 30-32 (which i think most people get).....almost 50% of these applicants get in!!!!(46%)

 

like doesn't that GPA pretty much suck, if your applyign to med school? pls. explain this. in canada, i assume if anyone had a 3.2 gpa, they would get rejected regardless of anything else (Unless they got like perfect on the mcat or something)

 

so im confused, the US seems easier to get into for med school (im not really worrying about residency anymore, just med school)

[sgt.pepper]

sgt. pepper, i am mainly considering Wayne State as my US option because they offer in-state tuition (ill be paying about 18K USD for my tuition + my residence/place to stay) so, yea, that's basically my main option because it isn't that much more expensive that ontario UG because i am definitely leaving Windsor, it sucks here.

 

yea, i want to do research and volunteer and everything right away. I also plan to play on the baseball team regardless of where I go.

 

could everyone take a look at this link: http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

 

its american stats for acceptances and applicants to med school. do those stats seem on par with those in canada? i thought it seemed like more people get in: like look under 3.20-3.39 GPA and under MCAT 30-32 (which i think most people get).....almost 50% of these applicants get in!!!!(46%)

 

like doesn't that GPA pretty much suck, if your applyign to med school? pls. explain this. in canada, i assume if anyone had a 3.2 gpa, they would get rejected regardless of anything else (Unless they got like perfect on the mcat or something)

 

so im confused, the US seems easier to get into for med school (im not really worrying about residency anymore, just med school)

 

You are correct US has lower gpa averages. No one knows the real reason but i can speculate/ i know some facts: US schools look/weight alot more the whole individual (ie ECs, research, LORs,) ; they have more schools; they are more expensive (i guess not everyone has the money for it) ...

[Viggy]

oh wait, don't US universities use GPA differently? like i know in high school a 4.0 would be over 90, while here (for high school) an A=>80=4.0. does that still apply in university over there? or is it the same as here?

 

if it is the same, then 3.2 is really low. what is that about in percentage? and what are LORs?

[itimebomb2]

you can start thinking about whether you want to go to Health Sci when you get in. Keep in mind that 3000 people apply for less than 200 spots -- thats about as selective as any given medical school -- and even less equitable, if thats possible!

[sfinch]

While I do think MAC Health Sci is a program that gives undeserved grades and is a complete mockery of the canadian undergraduate marking system, if you do get into the program, you are set! And there is nothing to be ashamed off.

 

Good luck in your endeavors.

 

Finch

[future_doc]

what are LORs?

 

Letters of Reference

[Viggy]

http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/percentage-to-gpa-converter-formulas/

 

is this link accurate for the GPA system that US universities use? like, im not sure because it just skips from 4.0 to 3.7, then to 3.3 which doesn't make sense....could someone post a better link if this one is innaccurate?

 

also, it seems incredibly hard to get into med schools in canada. http://www.ouac.on.ca/news/medappstats.html

like for that link the number of registrants is 4% of all applicants for mcmaster! So, ontario universities have like a 4% acceptance rate! that's almost scary to hear.(U of T has like 7.6% acceptance rate based on that reputable link)

 

like even if a 3.2 GPA in the US is around a 3.6-3.7 GPA here, and a MCAT score of 30, then 50% of those ppl in the US get in somewhere. In Canada/Ontario wouldn't your chances be much more slim (especially considering the fact that some universities only use VR or don't even consider the MCAT, making your GPA and other parts that much more important)

[he-blend]

I'm from Mac and can name about 20-30 people I know in health sci. Most of them are smart, and yes most of them have VERY high GPAs, about a dozen of them already now in med school

 

For being "Health-science" there are very few "health", or "science" courses required...especially in fourth year. Health sci's have a lot of options

 

here is the course calender for a bachelor in health science

 

http://registrar.mcmaster.ca/CALENDAR/current/pg1271.html

 

-Notice how between third and fourth year a health sci student could take 18 + 21 units (13 courses) of non health science electives?

 

-Also, up to 9 units (3 courses worth) can be a senior thesis. I was at their poster presentation, some were very impressive lab/research projects while others were complete BS...ie: posters on the Israeli Palestine conflict, and what cities are good choices for the elderly...good luck doing a thesis such as these in a real science program

 

Versus a program like Chemistry (non specialized), which only allows for 9 + 15 units (8 courses) of non science electives in their last two years:

 

http://registrar.mcmaster.ca/CALENDAR/current/pg1546.html

 

But if you're planning on med school, get into health sci, work hard and there's a good chance you're getting in

[Viggy]

 

For being "Health-science" there are very few "health", or "science" courses required...especially in fourth year. Health sci's have a lot of options

 

-Notice how between third and fourth year a health sci student could take 18 + 21 units (13 courses) of non health science electives?

 

But if you're planning on med school, get into health sci, work hard and there's a good chance you're getting in

 

wow, thats crazy, you could have more non-sci units that sci units.

so do ppl get the really high GPAs because they take really easy or "bird" courses with all those extra units?

 

and, does anyone have a link showing the % of ppl from health sci that go into medicine? like i know it's all inflated since so many students were already likely candidates because of the cut-off/ppl that apply to the program

 

and, if i don't get into the health sci program, would it be easier to get a higher GPA in Canada or the US?***i can't seem to find a reputable link that shows GPA to Percentage to Letter Grades.....i found a link on Wayne State University's website that you put in a letter grade and it gives you the GPA (so A=4.0, A+=4.0, A-=3.67, B+=3.3, B=3) is this how it is with all US universities? and what is an A, B, etc. like in percentage?

 

a GPA of even around 3.6 would seen pretty hard is an A is over 92 and A- is from 90-92 like it said on that one link i posted previously http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/percentage-to-gpa-converter-formulas/

[he-blend]

I'd would guess somewhere around 50% of health sci's get into med school, its a pretty small program, only about 150 or so students per year

 

I suggest pursuing a degree you would enjoy at a school that appeals to you. You'll have a lot more fun and the marks will come easier than doing a degree just for the MD...plus if med school doesn't work out, or you change your mind you'll have lots of other options

 

I'm in Biochem co-op at Mac, and while it was a ****load of work I've managed to pull off decent marks and have been able to work in an academic research lab and in a pharmaceutical company, so while i'm applying to med school i've got many other choices as well

[Viggy]

I'm in Biochem co-op at Mac, and while it was a ****load of work I've managed to pull off decent marks and have been able to work in an academic research lab and in a pharmaceutical company, so while i'm applying to med school i've got many other choices as well

 

so, what made you choose biochem? like, most people take the typical life sciences of the bio/med sciences and such. what made you choose biochem?

 

yea, about the place i'd want to go, i think Mac Health Sci for sure. like, even if it wasn't all hyped up, i love working in groups(with intellectual people, not the groups in high school where everyone did nothing expect yourself), and i don't like to get into too much lab work and such. i love biology and not chem or physics that much, so i think health sci would be great. plus, i want to live on campus, and Mac seems great for that too. (i dont really want to go to the US...SATs, complex applications, essays, etc. so dumb....i am only considering the US because it seems much easier to get into Med School there and Wayne State offers ontario applicants in-state tuition and it is just like 40 minutes from where i live)

 

also, are there certain courses that people take that are really easy courses with their extra units or w/e(like i dont understand the terminology yet, excuse me for that)? like are there certain courses pre-med students take just to get a high GPA

 

and does McMaster and Western, and other ontario universities give preference to their own undergrad students?

[future_doc]

Hey Viggy, if you become IP in Quebec, the rate of acceptance jumps up considerably.

 

Universities give no preference whatsoever to their own undergrad students, and that is what they say.

[Viggy]

thanks future_doc,

 

are there any programs that are science related in ontario that are notoriously easily to get a high GPA in?

 

also, what would you say an applicant with a very good shot at Med School, would have a GPA and MCAT score of? like, let's say they are applying to Mcmmaster, U of T, Western, Ottawa and such....could anyone give me a solid MCAT score and GPA that would give someone a great/good shot at med school? (pls. dont post like. 4.0 and 40 Mcat...something that is achievable if you work hard....for. ex. like 3.8 3.85, i would consider an acceptable response)

[he-blend]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?