Mac Health Sci

[Viggy]

Well I choose biochem because I wanted the research experience, and co-op so I could gain insight to the pharma industry. I also thought biochem was good because many of the required courses cover the pre-req for many med schools

 

so, were you initially out of high school leaning towards pharmacy?

[he-blend]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[Viggy]

besides the unique teaching concept of the health sci. program, what is so great about it?

 

i just want to get an idea of why so many people apply and why a lot of bright student who are med school hopefuls don't go to the life sciences or bio/med sciences at other schools

[~me~]

and, does anyone have a link showing the % of ppl from health sci that go into medicine?

 

http://fhs.mcmaster.ca/bhsc/graduates.html

[sfinch]

About 50% go to medicine or dentistry during the 4 years of health science...but talking to the class it's actually more. Many of the masters students get in afterwards (they are also usually 3.9+ GPA students as are allmost all health scies - but screwed up on the mcat or did not do well in interviews). Many that did not respond ALSO are in medicine, but didn't fill out the survey.

 

After 3-4 years out, it seems well over 75% are in medicine or dentistry in Canada...and many others overseas. The program gives class averages in the 87-90% range for basically all it's classes.

 

Viggy, the big plus to health sciences is that it basically guarantess you med school without too much stress...as much as such a thing is guaranteed. Go for it if you get in. My buddy that rejected health scie to go to UofToronto is REGRETTING IT WITH EVERY OUNCE of his being...he got raped at UToronto.

[Viggy]

wow, when you hear a number liek 50% to 75%, thats pretty crazy for Medicine/Denistry

 

yea, people keep saying that there is no program that is best for med school and no program gets you into med school, but this health sci now truly seems like its a direct pathway to med/dentistry

 

i will definately go to health sci if i get accepted, i hear ppl say that "oh, you need to be that type of person" and "it isn't meant for everyone", but i think i definately willing to take the risk

 

thanks for the link ~me~

[WestEastMountGuy]

My friend was at Eng Sci at U of T (another very selective program) and was averaging a 60 and even failed a class.

 

Switched over to Mech Eng and has a 90+ average so far.

 

In a normal program, smart people should succeed, but it seems almost as if the purpose of the BHSc. is not to foster learning or challenge the intellect but to get them 120 credits, some exposure in the field and ultimately into med school with as little worry as possible.

[Arrow]

In a normal program, smart people should succeed, but it seems almost as if the purpose of the BHSc. is not to foster learning or challenge the intellect but to get them 120 credits, some exposure in the field and ultimately into med school with as little worry as possible.

I take it that you are in the BHSc program youself and do not feel intellectually challenged?

[discworldheavylight]

i'm coming out of my corner of shame and am just gonna straight up come out and say that i am in health sci and (currently) proud of it.

 

i worked hard to get into this program. graduated first in my high school class with AP credits. so no, i do not think our program is filled with stupid, undeserving people (although we do have a few that slip in through the cracks, like any other program).

the way i see it, i worked hard during high school, learned my stuff, and i did well my first year in uni. if that means my marks were inflated, then so be it.

 

just by the way, we take science courses in first year too (i.e. chem). take it how you want, a lot of us did well in that course, and no, the health science department can't inflate those marks.

 

and no one ever talks about this, but second year hlth sci is one of the hardest years of any program at mac. (and let's not get into it about the quality of education at mac).

you're talking 10+ hours of group meetings a week, weekly presentations, plus hours in the anatomy lab and no, it is not a breeze.

and yes. MANY people unfortunately bomb anatomy (low 60s).

bellringers are not easy. and if you do bad on them, there is no mark adjustments. you get what you earn.

 

and for the high school kid this thread was actually meant for: if you get into health sci and you want to be a doctor, i do recommend it.

hlth sci teaches you valuable skills needed in the medical profession, particularly communication and inquiry skills.

even better, you're young. what you want can change.

in health sci, you get so many electives in upper years, you have the opportunity to explore.

personally, i'm considering a masters (and possibly PhD) in women's health. i don't know yet. but hey, i've got, what? 30 more electives to find out?

 

and all you haters can hate all you want. point is, i am where i wanna be.

 

and if you have a problem with it, then go chat up my vast number of alumni in med school.

[discworldheavylight]

i will definately go to health sci if i get accepted, i hear ppl say that "oh, you need to be that type of person" and "it isn't meant for everyone", but i think i definately willing to take the risk

 

just... fyi. you do sort of have to be "that kind of person". or if you're not, better learn to be quick because otherwise ur gonna hate it. maybe not in upper years, but definitely in first year.

 

first year is all about forming that hlth sci mentality.

 

for kids that have always excelled at school, it may be your first time without control over what happens.

[discworldheavylight]

Sorry, I wanted to add something just to cheer people up:

 

i know health scis, a large enough number to be statistically significant, that did not get in to med school with their "inflated" 3.99999+ GPAs.

 

so don't worry. no one is stealing ur spot.

like the dating ads say, it's all about the whole package.

[onamountain]

you're talking 10+ hours of group meetings a week

 

heh, try 10+ hours of group meetings a day (though not every day, obviously)

[discworldheavylight]

heh, try 10+ hours of group meetings a day (though not every day, obviously)

 

sorry, sorry. i was going with bare slacker minimum.

 

oh, and time for camping outside mdcl and begging the security guard to let you back in was also omitted.

[WestEastMountGuy]

I take it that you are in the BHSc program youself and do not feel intellectually challenged?

 

Actually I'm in Kin. Considered Health Sci, but decided against it based on a number of factors including advice from a couple of professors in the Faculty of Health Science (not teaching in the BHSc. program however) who did not think it was the bees knees. After listening to some first year Health Sci's brag to others about their "almost for sure!" acceptance to med school, and relatively little work, it has lead me to believe I made the right choice and that obviously if this is not the intention of the Faculty of Health Science then they are doing a poor job of fostering the right attitude among students.

 

Also just for another comparison. Kin is one of the top 4 highest admission programs at mac (iSci, BHSc., and Art Sci are the others), yet the class averages pre-exams so far in the Kin courses are between 70-75%! (Entrance average is ~87% cutoff I believe, so a significant drop) I'm not knocking Health Sci students, you guys are pretty smart on average, and you guys work hard on what your classes give you, but sometimes I wonder if they stimulate you for fear that the class averages might get "too low". Surely Health Sci's can see that while their grades aren't because of their program, it's definitely not hurting, and some people in other programs might be a bit jaded because even for "smart kids" their program doesn't believe that almost everyone should get 80+%

[sfinch]

Look...I had a 3.98 at UBC over 4 years...but VERY FEW PEOPLE in all of UBC had that average (maybe 40-50ish in all faculties). The vast majority of the brightest in BC go to UBC.

 

The fact is that there are more people in Health Sci at MAC with that GPA than ALL of UBC!!!! This one little program at McMaster has more smart hardworking people than ALL OF BRITISH COLUMBIA??? Give me an F'n break.

 

Health Sci alumni may be in medical school everywhere. But when that program gets slammed in an upcoming audit for grade inflatin (and believe me - word of that coming exists), the people that choose to go into that program will be in for a rude awakening.

[WestEastMountGuy]

i'm coming out of my corner of shame and am just gonna straight up come out and say that i am in health sci and (currently) proud of it.

 

Why would you think that people want to shame you?

 

i worked hard to get into this program. graduated first in my high school class with AP credits. so no, i do not think our program is filled with stupid, undeserving people (although we do have a few that slip in through the cracks, like any other program).

the way i see it, i worked hard during high school, learned my stuff, and i did well my first year in uni. if that means my marks were inflated, then so be it.

 

A lot of other people worked hard in high school. I didn't do AP (wasn't offered at my school) but placed just outside of top 50 on U of T bio comp, and had a 90+ average. I think most people know that the people who get into Health Sci. aren't dummies, but I think the small number of health sci's who think they are super human certainly don't help its reputation

 

just by the way, we take science courses in first year too (i.e. chem). take it how you want, a lot of us did well in that course, and no, the health science department can't inflate those marks.

 

Yes we know you take other courses. However, what some people propose is the structure of the health sci courses make it easier to excel in the small number of science courses they take.

 

and no one ever talks about this, but second year hlth sci is one of the hardest years of any program at mac. (and let's not get into it about the quality of education at mac).

you're talking 10+ hours of group meetings a week, weekly presentations, plus hours in the anatomy lab and no, it is not a breeze.

and yes. MANY people unfortunately bomb anatomy (low 60s).

bellringers are not easy. and if you do bad on them, there is no mark adjustments. you get what you earn.

 

And in first year kin (and other programs if you're lucky enough to get a spot in 1Y03/1YY3) you're doing weekly anatomy quizes, hours in the anatomy lab, prelab quizes, and still having a 60% of the final mark anatomy exam on the first day of the exam period. Plus some people have had 4 midterms in 3 days, including the chem one. Just saying. Health Sci may be hard, but its not necessarily harder than other programs.

 

and for the high school kid this thread was actually meant for: if you get into health sci and you want to be a doctor, i do recommend it.

 

I agree, if that is your main goal of university (get into med school) then go for it. The stats don't lie.

 

hlth sci teaches you valuable skills needed in the medical profession, particularly communication and inquiry skills.

even better, you're young. what you want can change.

in health sci, you get so many electives in upper years, you have the opportunity to explore.

 

Communication and inquiry are important but they aren't exclusive to Health Sci's. And many other programs have electives so I don't see the point of that statement.

 

personally, i'm considering a masters (and possibly PhD) in women's health. i don't know yet. but hey, i've got, what? 30 more electives to find out?

 

and all you haters can hate all you want. point is, i am where i wanna be.

 

and if you have a problem with it, then go chat up my vast number of alumni in med school.

 

Good for you.

[discworldheavylight]

 

And in first year kin (and other programs if you're lucky enough to get a spot in 1Y03/1YY3) you're doing weekly anatomy quizes, hours in the anatomy lab, prelab quizes, and still having a 60% of the final mark anatomy exam on the first day of the exam period.[/Quote]

 

maybe try our bellringer, then get back to me.

 

 

Communication and inquiry are important but they aren't exclusive to Health Sci's. And many other programs have electives so I don't see the point of that statement.

 

1) hlth sci's primary focus is PBL and inquiry. i'm aware other mac programs offer it, but none focus on it as much as hlth sci. i'm trying to offer the kid some realistic advice here. quit hating just to hate.

 

2) the previous arguments of this thread were partially based on the fact that health scis get a lot of electives in upper years (in contrast to some other programs). see above point about hating just to hate.

 

and p.s.

if u want to make a point about how u dont care about our program, try sounding a little less bitter.

[discworldheavylight]

Look...I had a 3.98 at UBC over 4 years...but VERY FEW PEOPLE in all of UBC had that average (maybe 40-50ish in all faculties). The vast majority of the brightest in BC go to UBC.

 

The fact is that there are more people in Health Sci at MAC with that GPA than ALL of UBC!!!! This one little program at McMaster has more smart hardworking people than ALL OF BRITISH COLUMBIA??? Give me an F'n break.

 

LOL, i think ur overestimating how high hlth sci grades are.

they're not THAT high!

 

it's true that most health scis don't have below 3.7 GPAs, but take the top 20% of any program (except maybe humanities where it is brutal) and that is likely true.

 

most ppl i know in my program are in the 3.8 range. that's not low, but it's not the 3.98 marks ur picturing either.

 

yes, there are a few ppl with almost 4.0 GPAs like u, but i've met those ppl. they are SCARY smart. they're like creepy robots who read entire textbooks, publish reputable articles in high school and win national competitions smart. and there are only like maybe ten of them. they're the kids who chose not to go to Harvard. but they're not a fair representation of health scis.

[Viggy]

isn't acceptance to Mac Health Sci like a lottery basically? like they have 160-something spots for the thousands that apply, pretty crazy, if you think about it, that's more competitive than an Ivy League school in the US

 

and bellringers, we have had 2 of those in my bio class, at first we were like why don't we write a regular test, then the teacher said it prepares you for university, ppl thought he was joking, but i guess they actually do that in university (everyone fails them, but i like them becuase he gives a range of marks that equal a 10/10, so like a bellringer out of 70, >55 would be 10/10...so i find them easy)

 

do you have enough electives after year one and two to take bio, chem, physics, calc., organic chemistry, and english? i need those pre-reqs if i want to apply to med school after my third year, and i'd like to have them done by second so i could write the MCAT in the summer after Year 2

 

(i need english and a bunch of others as pre-reqs for US med schools)

[discworldheavylight]

and bellringers, we have had 2 of those in my bio class, at first we were like why don't we write a regular test, then the teacher said it prepares you for university, ppl thought he was joking, but i guess they actually do that in university (everyone fails them, but i like them becuase he gives a range of marks that equal a 10/10, so like a bellringer out of 70, >55 would be 10/10...so i find them easy)[/Quote]

 

the anatomy bellringer is very different from anything you have experienced in high school. quite frankly, i found it retarded. like they'll literally give you the dura matter and ask you to identify the venous drainage based on the dura structure. um...it looks like the mask leatherface wears, what else can i tell u about it?

or theyll ask u to identify one of the 5 nerves in the hand by just looking at the connection up at the arm and covering everything else up. or...well there was a lot of wtf stuff, that's all i can say.

some people bomb the bellringers. but bellringers are where most ppl really suffer in med, so at least its good practice!

 

isn't acceptance to Mac Health Sci like a lottery basically? like they have 160-something spots for the thousands that apply, pretty crazy, if you think about it, that's more competitive than an Ivy League school in the US[/Quote]

 

my guidance councilor in high school told me 3000 is inflated. that's just the number applying. but some people apply without the cutoff average and get rejected on the spot. the actual numbers are lower.

 

if u consider hlth sci a lottery, then med school is one too. yes, a lot of it really depends on if the person reading ur app likes it. that means it helps if that person has similar interests, experiences, values etc. but that can be said for a med school app too!

ur gpa still plays a big factor and so do killer apps, so just try ur best. a little luck wont hurt, but it's not the end all and be all.

 

i do think they screw up sometimes though. my friend didnt get in when she applied and i thought she was amazingly qualified and just an overall great person. unfortunately, the person reading her app didn't agree.

 

 

do you have enough electives after year one and two to take bio, chem, physics, calc., organic chemistry, and english? i need those pre-reqs if i want to apply to med school after my third year, and i'd like to have them done by second so i could write the MCAT in the summer after Year 2

 

many hlth scis take calc, chem and physics in first year. our bio should count towards the credit (it's cell bio).

many also take orgo in second year.

english is also taken, often as one in first year and one in second.

it'll be hard in second year no lie because of the busy group meeting/anatomy schedule. but if u want to do orgo u still can.

[WestEastMountGuy]

maybe try our bellringer, then get back to me.

 

"Our course is harder cause I say our bellringers are harder" Great logic there. Kin Anatomy has a 60% final exam with 1/4 being a bellringer test. So 15% of our mark is based on bellringers except we take them at the same time as our final exam.

 

and p.s.

if u want to make a point about how u dont care about our program, try sounding a little less bitter.

 

I never said I didn't care. My point was

 

1) Health Sci's aren't "undeserving". They're pretty smart people.

 

but

 

2) I get tired of every time someone criticizes the program the fact that every Health Sci feels the need to state the following:

 

a) Health Sci students are the best students in Canada (many top students choose not to go there)

 

Health Sci is harder than other programs

 

c) Anyone who has criticisms, however legitimate, is bitter

 

I'm bitter about that. Not your program. But that's 2) © isn't it?

[WestEastMountGuy]

many hlth scis take calc, chem and physics in first year. our bio should count towards the credit (it's cell bio).

 

McMaster views it as equivalent (it's co-listed as a prerequisite with Bio 1A03/1M03 for several upper year bio's). I'm assuming like Math 1LS3/1A03, the University will send a notice to professional schools saying they are basically the same thing.

[onamountain]

the anatomy bellringer is very different from anything you have experienced in high school.

 

Last year's term two bellringer, they decided to bring in a fresh pig's heart for one of the stations. It was still dripping dark, thick blood all over the place. I remember frantically identifying structures and squirting blood everywhere in the process. My test paper ended up pretty scary-lookin. And I still have that pen I used, covered in dried blood...ahh, good memories

[discworldheavylight]

Last year's term two bellringer, they decided to bring in a fresh pig's heart for one of the stations. It was still dripping dark, thick blood all over the place. I remember frantically identifying structures and squirting blood everywhere in the process. My test paper ended up pretty scary-lookin. And I still have that pen I used, covered in dried blood...ahh, good memories

 

that can't have been sanitary. u should sue and get lots of money. =)

be like, "BLOOD IN MY EYE!!! BLOOD IN MY EYEEE!!!

[discworldheavylight]

Based on my limited experience, I have to say that of course mac health sci kids are deserving. They are smart and there is no question. All that is being said here is that the GPA that these kids are pulling off in the program is a little higher than what they would get if they were in a different program. Ie instead of pulling in 3.95, it should be something like 3.85. Still great but not phenomenal. Maybe inflation isn't what's going on, but something is going on. I think it's just that the program creates such a positive, conducive environment for doing well and getting good marks. I actually know a guy barely passing their first exam in meds but pulled out a 3.97 GPA. Even if it one person and one test, you kinda do raise an eyebrow.

 

Your bellringer sounds like queen's, it's nothing special. Queen's anatomy lab is pretty reknown in Canada for specimens and sections that are so unique. Trying having those on your bellringer.

 

Again, Onamountain, try doing that with a brain in a bucket. Samething.

 

lol. i was just thinking we did have a brain in a bucket. those things are damn slippery.

 

look, hlth sci anatomy bellringers are the hardest in mac undergrad. i say this only because that is what's been relayed by the people who set them up. i don't know about the bellringers at other schools. perhaps they are hard too. it's not in my place to say.

as someone who worked their ass off last year studying for those bellringers, that comment was solely directed at the kin guy who should take a breather.

i'm not saying all of our courses are really hard or lead to awful marks, but anatomy IS hard and people DO bomb.

 

finally, i really want to clear the air by once again stating that i think a lot of the negativity towards this mark "inflation" topic is because people think hlth sci grades are up in the high 3.9s. THEY ARE NOT.

i'm being honest here. yes, there are a few people. but those people work really hard or are really smart.

most health scis dont get marks like that.

so please dont feel like it's an unfair advantage to us.

if our grades really are inflated, then we must all be really really dumb because only a few of us are getting those marks ur picturing.

 

anyway, i hope people can put their animosity aside towards each other. i mean, hopefully we'll all end up where we want in the future. if that is med school, then chances are we'll be each others peers and coworkers. so we might as well start loving on each other now.