Radiology Interview

[sarakj]

I am sorry to hear that you did not receive too many positive emails:mad: . As far as this year goes, I know a lot of students from Western have applied this year. I am not sure if they all have strong applications though. Davelee, you seem to have every thing on the right path. I guess if you are really interested about specific program you might want to send an email or try to phone them to appeal for an interview offer. I have heard that this has happened before! With all the stories I am hearing, I guess this year is not an easy year.

I hope you guys have a back up plan.. There is always possibly to transfer! Do not loose hope please.. not yet !

[BlackJack]

2 letters from Radiologists.. 1 from Int Med

 

Electives only at 2 schools, total of 7 weeks (3wks+2wks at my home school, at different centers. And 2 wks at another school). My home school already rejected me Couldn't book electives elsewhere because applied too late/waiting list didn't move

 

You're right. Things don't look good. It's a 5hit situation and you have my sympathies.

 

You have three options, realistically:

 

1. Back-up with another five-year program at a school/city that you want to go to. If you don't match rads, which it looks like unfortunately, you can always go into this other five-year program and immediately get the wheels in motion to switch out.

 

2. Wait until the second-round, and then do the above. I don't recommend doing this because what's left over is usually not too hot. This is what happened to me last year, and the list didn't have anything I was very interested in. Though I did pick something, I'm really only tolerating it, not enjoying it. Plus, if you match to any school in Ontario in the 2nd round, you are prohibited from switching out of your program until PGY2, unlike first-round matchers that have the freedom to switch at six-months in. This makes it extremely difficult to get into a competitive spot such as radiology, which will be gone by the time you get the freedom to switch.

 

3. Don't go into the 2nd round. I don't recommend this. If you were to unmatch, and eschew the 2nd round, your best bet would be to try the US match the following year. That means writing and smoking the USMLE step 1 and also doing fruitful research. Trying to match in Canada again basically relegates you to crappy family medicine spots and return-of-service contracts.

 

 

I'd honestly go with option one. You have the most freedom to move around with it. Option three is a wild-card, and option two leaves you a professional gimp among your peers. Lord knows that if I honestly cannot stand what I'm doing, and I can't switch into something I want to do, I'll leave medicine.

[sarakj]

Well spoken! I Hope you can trasfer to your desire program. You must be a strong person to go through this process. Keep us up to date about your journey.. even with us given many interviews, the future is unknown..

Good luck

sarakj

[tooty]

hi there,

i only recently found out about this forum. I too am interested in radiology and applied to quite a few programs. However, I've been getting rejected everywhere! I thought my application wouldn't be that bad, with good evals, (hopefully, as far as i know) good reference letters, lots of extracurriculars and research. I really don't know whats wrong with my application. Does anyone have any advice as to finding out what's wrong. I tried emailing a few programs to ask for feedback and all of them said no to me.

 

Is the competition this year particularly large?

 

For both Davelee and geekpunk,

 

How many of your letters came from radiologists? And what did your electives look like?

 

davelee, share your story!

[street_med]

Alberta invites are out...if I'm not mistaken only Manitoba, Dal and Memorial have yet to send offers (english schools)

 

Just wondering: is the competition at Ontario schools particularly large this year? I'm from out west and did do electives in Ontario, just not radiology. Do you guys think there's an inherent geographical bias when Ontario schools select applicants?

 

Thoughts?

 

SM

[davelee]

I think i was pretty standard. i had 1 from radiology, 1 from surgery, and 1 from IM. And I did 3 electives in radiology for a total of 8 weeks at 3 schools.

[SuckaMD]

Street Med,

 

I think the competition in Ontario is quite large this year, though I can't comment on how much larger than in past years. For instance, as sarahkj mentioned, there is quite a large cohort from Western applying. Have you been unable to get interviews in Ontario?

 

From the other side, I am a student in Ontario who did two electives out West (1 radiology, 1 not) and have received an interview only from Saskatchewan so far of all the schools west of Ontario (come on, Manitoba!). Is the competition out West particularly fierce?

[Monaco]

Based on the carms report for last year, the competition for rads wasn't that bad compared to previous years. However, those reports do not capture the number who apply to rads but do not end up ranking it first or do not receive interviews, I think.

 

Good luck to all. Carms is stressful for everybody, and I can't really remember how we got through it...but somehow most people do.

[street_med]

SuckaMD,

 

Queen's is the only school in Ontario I've received an interview invite from so far. Maybe, it's because I never did a rads elective in Ontario. It seems for the most part you only end up getting interviews at places where you did electives which is unfortunate because you can't possibly do rads electives everywhere and there might have been places where you never were able to set up an elective. Oh well, such is CaRMS I suppose:rolleyes:

 

The competition out west is probably not as intense as Ontario but who really knows

[sarakj]

I believe this year radiology is more competitive than last year. I also believe that getting into a few schools will always be competitive.. I did all my 10 weeks electives in radiology in 5 schools in Ontario, though supersizingly I got interview from the schools that I did not do any elective too! As far as Ontario schools go, I know for a fact that Ottawa only offers interview to people done elective on site, though there are always exception to it ! I hope people who did not get radiology interview , applied for another 5 yr discipline too..

[tooty]

I think i was pretty standard. i had 1 from radiology, 1 from surgery, and 1 from IM. And I did 3 electives in radiology for a total of 8 weeks at 3 schools.

 

can anyone comment on where davelee went wrong here?

 

i'd prefer to get a few interviews come carms (), so where are some areas i can shine that davelee perhaps didn't?

[bnface]

i wonder if radiology has come to the point where you would need 3 letters from radiologists and nearly all your electives in it? diversification isnt all its made out to be apparently.

[tooty]

i wonder if radiology has come to the point where you would need 3 letters from radiologists and nearly all your electives in it? diversification isnt all its made out to be apparently.

 

but residents and 2 pd's all said you shouldn't do all your electives in rads.

 

it seems like the entire process is a gong show

[Lactic Folly]

hi there,

i only recently found out about this forum. I too am interested in radiology and applied to quite a few programs. However, I've been getting rejected everywhere! I thought my application wouldn't be that bad, with good evals, (hopefully, as far as i know) good reference letters, lots of extracurriculars and research. I really don't know whats wrong with my application. Does anyone have any advice as to finding out what's wrong. I tried emailing a few programs to ask for feedback and all of them said no to me.

 

Is the competition this year particularly large?

 

I can't comment on your particular situation, but I'm sorry to hear you haven't had much luck. When you consider the nationwide pool of applicants, it is not uncommon for schools to receive over four applications for every interview spot. As most applicants who are not geographically restricted will be applying across the country, those with the strongest paper applications have the best chance of getting interviews at each school they apply to, and hence multiple interviews. If there is any 'red flag,' it is that you describe your application as "not that bad" and your evals and letters as "good." (Ideally, they would be excellent/outstanding.) Unfortunately, this may not be enough for your application to rise to the top of the pile for the schools to which you applied.

 

I agree that it is not the number of radiology letters/electives, but their quality.. As programs are knee deep in CaRMS right now, I suspect now might not be the best time to ask for feedback. Do you have a trusted mentor or referee?

[geekpunk]

You're right. Things don't look good. It's a 5hit situation and you have my sympathies.

 

You have three options, realistically:

 

1. Back-up with another five-year program at a school/city that you want to go to. If you don't match rads, which it looks like unfortunately, you can always go into this other five-year program and immediately get the wheels in motion to switch out.

 

2. Wait until the second-round, and then do the above. I don't recommend doing this because what's left over is usually not too hot. This is what happened to me last year, and the list didn't have anything I was very interested in. Though I did pick something, I'm really only tolerating it, not enjoying it. Plus, if you match to any school in Ontario in the 2nd round, you are prohibited from switching out of your program until PGY2, unlike first-round matchers that have the freedom to switch at six-months in. This makes it extremely difficult to get into a competitive spot such as radiology, which will be gone by the time you get the freedom to switch.

 

3. Don't go into the 2nd round. I don't recommend this. If you were to unmatch, and eschew the 2nd round, your best bet would be to try the US match the following year. That means writing and smoking the USMLE step 1 and also doing fruitful research. Trying to match in Canada again basically relegates you to crappy family medicine spots and return-of-service contracts.

 

 

I'd honestly go with option one. You have the most freedom to move around with it. Option three is a wild-card, and option two leaves you a professional gimp among your peers. Lord knows that if I honestly cannot stand what I'm doing, and I can't switch into something I want to do, I'll leave medicine.

 

Thanks for your honest feedback, BlackJack. I've actually been going back and reading your and Ian Wong's stories. Pretty inspiring. It definitely is a sh*tty feeling right now, especially during the holidays - indeed, this is probably the worst xmas I've ever had. I have no interviews and I've been rejected from all but 3 schools - only 1 of which I feel I still may have a shot at since I did an elective there and am from the region originally. Not really sure where I went wrong - I guess as Lactic Folly mentioned above, I think my overall application is "pretty good/above average", but not outstanding/stellar, and unfortunately, that in itself seems like a red flag for a competitive specialty such as Rads.

 

With regards to the remaining options, I'm actually leaning towards Option 3 - Taking a year "off" and applying to Rads in the US and CaRMS again next year. I know there is a lot of risk involved in this, and I'm especially worried re: US visa issues with the whole J1 vs. H1B thing. Also, not having medical insurance from my medical school in this supposed "off-year" will make it hard to do electives, but in Rads, won't I mainly be observing/shadowing anyway? Apart from the occasional interventional procedure, I didn't have much patient contact on my Rads electives anyway so would this really be a big issue i.e. should I be concerned that I won't be able to do "electives" at my home medical school and/or different centres? As well, I know I will have to bust my b*lls writing Step1 and Step2 CK. It looks like a long, risky road, and I'm not officially decided yet, but if I don't see myself doing anything that's left in the 2nd iteration come March, I may go ahead with this. I know it doesn't count for much, but I do goto a "known Canadian med school" i.e. a UBC, a UofT, or a McGill - of which I don't wish to disclose here From reading the old threads, Ian Wong seemed to allude to the fact that US schools might take this into consideration, but I know this doesn't guarantee jack.

 

Unfortunately Option 1, that BlackJack mentioned, isn't feasible as I did not backup Rads with anything in the 1st iteration. So as mentioned, I will most likely be awaiting the 2nd round this year to see what's left. Location isn't much of a barrier to me, ideally I'd like to be in Ontario but I'll go just about anywhere if it's the specialty of my choice. Choosing another 5-year specialty in the 2nd iteration and attempting to later transfer into Rads doesn't seem realistic. I'm sure the rare occasion has happened before, but realistically, how many Rads residents would WANT to switch out and/or how many open positions for Rads would be leftover so that someone like me could transfer in? Seems impossible. From what I gather, transferring seems like a more realistic possibility for primary care residencies.

 

A final question in this longwinded post is that say I hold out this year and apply to the US and Canada next year for Rads, and still DON'T get matched in either country, will I still be eligible for CaRMS 2nd iteration in 2011?? If it came down to that, at that point I would just suck it up, say goodbye to Rads forever and take whatever's left in that 2nd round. But I'm assuming I'd be seen as "damaged goods" by any Canadian program by then, out of clinical experience for a year and a real gamble. Sigh... sorry for this post. Probably shouldn't have posted and hijacked in this Rads interview thread, mods feel free to move elsewhere if needed. Any insight is appreciated.

[randomguy2]

I have this theory - wondering if any of you have any thoughts.

 

Smaller schools in more remote locations would not want to interview the top candidates from larger schools, because they are fairly sure that even if the school ranks the applicant high, the applicant will not rank the school high (because they have many options). This may cause schools like Mac only to have only 1 UofT resident over 5 years (as an example).

 

Alternatively, schools like UofT would not like to interviews candidates from smaller schools because they know that they can fill their spots with local applications.

 

What this might mean is that:

1) The people with the most interviews are top students from smaller programs

2) The top students at the top schools will NOT get interviews from most of the smaller programs

3) The smaller schools may even want to interview average students from top schools vs. the best students from the top schools

 

Does anybody have similar experiences, or can help add to this?

Did anyone from a large school (i.e., UofT) get interviews everywhere?

Did everyone that got interviews everywhere come from smaller schools?

 

Just trying to figure the system out

[bnface]

I have this theory - wondering if any of you have any thoughts.

 

Smaller schools in more remote locations would not want to interview the top candidates from larger schools, because they are fairly sure that even if the school ranks the applicant high, the applicant will not rank the school high (because they have many options). This may cause schools like Mac only to have only 1 UofT resident over 5 years (as an example).

 

Alternatively, schools like UofT would not like to interviews candidates from smaller schools because they know that they can fill their spots with local applications.

 

What this might mean is that:

1) The people with the most interviews are top students from smaller programs

2) The top students at the top schools will NOT get interviews from most of the smaller programs

3) The smaller schools may even want to interview average students from top schools vs. the best students from the top schools

 

Does anybody have similar experiences, or can help add to this?

Did anyone from a large school (i.e., UofT) get interviews everywhere?

Did everyone that got interviews everywhere come from smaller schools?

 

Just trying to figure the system out

 

Unlike medical school admissions, residency programs are not "rated" based on large schools and small schools. They should be rated based on program strength. Mac's internal program is fairly strong, whereas their ophtho program likely isn't. Therefore, there is variability, much of which is dependent on program one is applying to.

 

I think (and i'm only a med student, so take this with a grain of salt) that programs generally prefer people who do electives with them, regardless of which school they come from.

[Lactic Folly]

Simply put, programs interview the candidates they would like to rank and match. They may or may not factor in their estimate of their program's desirability to the candidate. As for desirability of programs, program size in itself is usually a minor factor. I've heard Mac is actually quite competitive due to its proximity to the GTA.

[JCTulip]

You're right. Things don't look good. It's a 5hit situation and you have my sympathies.

 

You have three options, realistically:

 

3. Don't go into the 2nd round. I don't recommend this. If you were to unmatch, and eschew the 2nd round, your best bet would be to try the US match the following year. That means writing and smoking the USMLE step 1 and also doing fruitful research. Trying to match in Canada again basically relegates you to crappy family medicine spots and return-of-service contracts.

 

 

I don't think you got option 3 right.

 

If you go unmatched and try again next year, you will still be in round 1 of CaRMS.

 

There is no return of service agreement - which are usually reserved for IMGs, retraining applicants and those that want to switch specialty but need more funding to complete the years.

 

That being said, how well you'll be regarded by selection committees in your specialty in the following year is a huge gamble. If they did not pick you for interview the year earlier, why would they pick you again this year when there is fresh new crop of applicants? Unless something drastic changed in your application...

[JCTulip]

A final question in this longwinded post is that say I hold out this year and apply to the US and Canada next year for Rads, and still DON'T get matched in either country, will I still be eligible for CaRMS 2nd iteration in 2011?? If it came down to that, at that point I would just suck it up, say goodbye to Rads forever and take whatever's left in that 2nd round. But I'm assuming I'd be seen as "damaged goods" by any Canadian program by then, out of clinical experience for a year and a real gamble. Sigh... sorry for this post. Probably shouldn't have posted and hijacked in this Rads interview thread, mods feel free to move elsewhere if needed. Any insight is appreciated.

 

If you still go unmatched the year after in the 1st round of CaRMS, you still have the same options as you do after going unmatched in the 1st year:

 

(1) applying to 2nd round of CaRMS

 

(2) applying to US the next year

 

(3) applying to CaRMS the next year in the 1st round

 

As long as you haven't matched anywhere in the US or Canadian match, you'll always be eligible for the 1st round of CaRMS, and have the 2nd round as an option.

 

(this is a huge advantage being a Canadian grads rather than IMG)

[BlackJack]

I don't think you got option 3 right.

 

If you go unmatched and try again next year, you will still be in round 1 of CaRMS.

 

There is no return of service agreement - which are usually reserved for IMGs, retraining applicants and those that want to switch specialty but need more funding to complete the years.

 

That being said, how well you'll be regarded by selection committees in your specialty in the following year is a huge gamble. If they did not pick you for interview the year earlier, why would they pick you again this year when there is fresh new crop of applicants? Unless something drastic changed in your application...

 

Sure, the re-applicant can try his hand at round one of CaRMS, but realistically they will likely fail and have to go into the second round which is full of crappy family spots and ROS contracts.

[rmorelan]

Sure, the re-applicant can try his hand at round one of CaRMS, but realistically they will likely fail and have to go into the second round which is full of crappy family spots and ROS contracts.

 

Do you actually have to apply for something in the second round if you do not match in the first one? Or can he/she just not match in round one during year 1, improve the application, and apply again round one for the following year?

[Mourning Cloak]

Do you actually have to apply for something in the second round if you do not match in the first one? Or can he/she just not match in round one during year 1, improve the application, and apply again round one for the following year?

 

No, you don't have to participate in the second round. You can take a look at what's left over, and decide NOT to participate in the second round, and then go into the first round again the next year.

 

Technically, the first round is for current year grads and previous-year grads without training; so you could participate in the second round, and if you didn't match (and sat 2010 out) you could go ahead and try to match first round in 2011. As long as you don't do residency training somewhere, you are considered first round.

[TBell]

Manitoba interviews are out:)

[sarakj]

Thanks Tbell for the up date. The only English Lang speaking school left is Dal! Hopefully some poeple got some good news before new yr. My time is on Jan 29 around 11, when is urs Tbell?