lostintime Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 And why doesn't the government do something about this? I heard that it's because they're particularly good as coming together as a group to lobby for higher fee for service etc. I guess general surgeons are just too busy and overworked to have time to strategize how to get the most bang for their buck unlike optho's, derm's, and rads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarakj Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 The way it seems.. They both make pretty good money with relatively good life style.. But as ophtho you have much more felxibity and options to make over a million..also I think diagnostic radiologist make much less than IR.. The hard thing is no one ever tells you how they make till u become staff as well.. Not that we, as medical students should choose a career based on money but it can be an important factor ..any more idea? Sara Kj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandibular Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 radios by far make the most cash. The only downturn is the initial +1mill$ equipment to pay off. But as a group practice it should be a piece of cake. that being said, you greedy bastards should calm it down a notch (JOKE) money shouldn't be a Taboo topic and should be openly discussed. Yes there are many other ways to make more money than M.D.s, some people with high school degrees make a killing. Dentists too, laugh pretty loudly on their way to the bank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 How is ophthalmology more flexible? I'm not as familiar with that field, but I would think it would be easier for radiologists to change jobs/locations without needing to rebuild a practice and referral base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 While I agree that money shouldn't be a taboo topic, the point has been raised in other forums that posting numbers openly has the potential for backlash from members of the public who already hold the opinion that doctors are greedy and overpaid. Also, while the lack of money definitely has a negative impact on one's quality of life, I think most people appreciate that someone working in these fields will be able to live comfortably as long as they do not spend more than they earn. After a certain point, increased income provides diminishing returns in happiness, and other factors (lifestyle, job satisfaction, etc.) will have a more significant role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandibular Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Well, the advantage of radios is teleradiology: you don't need to "physically" move. You can simply receive the radios at your house/pratice, put in the diagnosis and send it out. This way, you don't need to commute and waste time/money on gas/traffic. As for the money, you're right: I think posting figures on public forums has a negative impact on the profession Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinase Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Well, the advantage of radios is teleradiology: you don't need to "physically" move. You can simply receive the radios at your house/pratice, put in the diagnosis and send it out. This way, you don't need to commute and waste time/money on gas/traffic. As for the money, you're right: I think posting figures on public forums has a negative impact on the profession Mandibular aka ''money'' mandi aka ''gas is cash'' aka ''time is $$$'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandibular Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 hence another advantage of radio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarakj Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Well, public will say their things no mather what.. Some people talk too much.. We work so hard to get where we are now.. This is our forum and public should respect that.. Better get some sleep before my interview for rads in UBC.. I guess I'm getting closer to those millions of dollars ..Jk.. Interesting discussion though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinch Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Good luck sarakj. It's a long road, but when those millions start coming in and you are in your yacht drinking champaigne, you'll be thankful!! :-) I think I'd be more keen on opthalmology, and maybe oculoplastics. In BC there is a HUGE demand from asians to do eyelid surgery (blepharoplasty), and a fortune can be made!! Tap into that market just right, and I do see 1.5-2 million easily - and a good chunk of it in private billing so the public doesn't have to know. Relatively low risk too. Dermatology isn't bad either - though I don't think they make as much money as some of us think. Good lifestyle though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dongzhuo Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Radiology has some set backs though...for example, with teleradiology there's always the inherent risk of outsourcing (though current legislation and politics makes this highly unlikely). Another risk would be self referral. Cardiologists already have their own fellowships in CT and all other sorts of imaging. Neurologists read their own MRIs..since radiology is so lucrative, and clinicians control the patient flow, radiologists will lose in a turf battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Neurologists read their own MRIs? They certainly look at them, but I'm not aware that they do the primary report - that's why we have neuroradiologists around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarakj Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 No, neurologist do not read MRI.. They might be able to rule in or rule out some common pathologies.. And Cardiac Ct is done mostly by cardiologist in some center but the rest of the chest CT get its final review from chest radiologist.. The scope of practice for radiologists is growing and when this happnes, they will ened up giving up on some part of their practice.. This is even true for ophthos.. I have heard optometrist are fighting so hard to get some more power to do simple surgeries ..Although , the future for radiology is more challenging and there will be more need more energetic radiologist to move it forward.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest success100 Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 Latest Canadian Physican Data has optho's billing an average of $544 675 across the country, and almost $800 000 in Sask. and Alta. With the exception of NS, they outbill urologists (in the majority of provinces by a couple hundred thousand dollars) and all the rest of the surgical specialties...so I'm not quite sure where you're getting your information! Yeah,and count the taxes/practice fees/private practice(for some.)/no paid vacations/no paid overtime. Since the government is always @%!@$? about taxes,an ophtalmo will pratically end up with like 100k-200k in his pockets out of a "800k/year" salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 Yeah,and count the taxes/practice fees/private practice(for some.)/no paid vacations/no paid overtime. Since the government is always @%!@$? about taxes,an ophtalmo will pratically end up with like 100k-200k in his pockets out of a "800k/year" salary. Lol by that logic, a family doc should only end up with 25k in their pockets? Taxes are not THAT bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest success100 Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 It's funny to see some people here counting only on the money for a specialtie that they will probably do for the rest of THEIR LIVES. I guarantee you that if you get into a specialtie that you don't like,just for the money,you'll end up living with a loser feeling the rest of your life... I know some physicians who feel as sad as a primary school teacher... You guys better make a good choice into getting in residencies...i'm not saying that physicians should earn like 40k year,but it shouldn't be the MAIN idea in the bottom line...just an advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest success100 Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 Lol by that logic, a family doc should only end up with 25k in their pockets? Taxes are not THAT bad... In canada,it works like this,the more you get,the more taxes you pay... A family doc has a "normal" income,enough to live his life without any problems,but when you reach the 500k/year status,i can tell you that the government will do everything in his power to drain as much money as they can from your pockets... 48% taxes are already bad,(well,in quebec),it may be the same in other places,and with a 500k+/year salary,it raises to like 55%... So yeah...get into residency for passion,not for money. If you really want a big load of income,just move to the U.S.,or do an M.B.A...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarakj Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 Well, the point of these postings is not to choose or not to choose a speciality for the sake of their salaries.. It is just an open disscussion to say some facts! This might be important in making decisions for some! That is why we have so many areas in medicine! Money is important but not the only key factor! I'm sure when the times come to make the residency choice, people will follow their hearts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rock Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 I know some physicians who feel as sad as a primary school teacher... I'm not letting this one go. Sure, lots of teachers complain, and most people agree that teachers are overworked and underpaid, particularly in the primary grades, but most of the kindergarten and primary teachers that I know are happy doing what they do. And let's not forget they all do more significant work than the vast majority of other careers out there, even--gasp!--physicians. The people I know who enjoy working as primary teachers get enormous job satisfaction out of moulding, socializing, and educating children, particularly the ones who are dropped off at school by one of two high-powered, high-earning parents, picked up by the nanny at 3:00, and only hug one of their parents at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dongzhuo Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 In canada,it works like this,the more you get,the more taxes you pay...A family doc has a "normal" income,enough to live his life without any problems,but when you reach the 500k/year status,i can tell you that the government will do everything in his power to drain as much money as they can from your pockets... 48% taxes are already bad,(well,in quebec),it may be the same in other places,and with a 500k+/year salary,it raises to like 55%... So yeah...get into residency for passion,not for money. If you really want a big load of income,just move to the U.S.,or do an M.B.A...lol That's why you incorporate yourself to write off expenses. Compared to many other jobs, that's already a plus. Passion...I'm not sure if the surgeon has so much passion that he's grinning when he's doing his 500th appendectomy, or the cardiologist is putting in his millionth stent. I don't know. Of course you have to be a bit interested in your field, but eventually, the lifestyle and comfort etc will be crucial factors in whether you enjoy your field. If you feel as though the ONLY THING that matters is to cut open skulls or do endoscopies on people at the expense of everything else, go ahead and do it. MBA....huh. I am perplexed as to why people bring this up so often. 99-100% MD grads end up being doctors and making AT LEAST 200,000 minimum. After an MBA, you may be a teller at a bank, sell insurance, or do other middle management jobs where you'd be happy with a 60K. If you've got all the connections and LUCK you might be an investment banker or something, but then again it's nothing guaranteed. Summary MBA =/= get rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest success100 Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 That's why you incorporate yourself to write off expenses. Compared to many other jobs, that's already a plus. Passion...I'm not sure if the surgeon has so much passion that he's grinning when he's doing his 500th appendectomy, or the cardiologist is putting in his millionth stent. I don't know. Of course you have to be a bit interested in your field, but eventually, the lifestyle and comfort etc will be crucial factors in whether you enjoy your field. If you feel as though the ONLY THING that matters is to cut open skulls or do endoscopies on people at the expense of everything else, go ahead and do it. MBA....huh. I am perplexed as to why people bring this up so often. 99-100% MD grads end up being doctors and making AT LEAST 200,000 minimum. After an MBA, you may be a teller at a bank, sell insurance, or do other middle management jobs where you'd be happy with a 60K. If you've got all the connections and LUCK you might be an investment banker or something, but then again it's nothing guaranteed. Summary MBA =/= get rich. Well,what i was trying to tell you guys is that you shouldn't try to get into these residencies just because of your future "comfort"...yes,it's passion,my dad has been a Gen.Surgeon and he loves his job,even though he loses half his income just for those taxes...maybe you never saw it or something,but hey,take a teacher,at university,who studied over 15 years to finally get his Ph.D. and still gets 80k year...i don't know why the excuse "i am an M.D. so i deserve more" still holds to justify a physician's pay... Also,for the M.B.A.,anyone who studied marketing + M.B.A. gets ATLEAST 110k/year at start + a signing bonus of about 15-30k...it's also less stressfull than a physician,so if money is your main idea,go for it,not M.D... Not trying to argue or anything,i'm totally with the physician's opinions about the salaries,but seriously,these threads featuring people saying "im gunna get into neurosurg or radiology cuz it pays high"are just going way too far... I mean,if there's no real passion/interest and you're JUST *****ing on the government for a better pay,what kind of physician it would make ?... Keep in mind that doctors have LOTS of responsabilities,they usually work overtime and never gets more...doing something you don't like will make your grave dig faster,nothing more,nothing less. Anyways,i know you understood my message... Bye^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinch Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 Well,what i was trying to tell you guys is that you shouldn't try to get into these residencies just because of your future "comfort"...yes,it's passion,my dad has been a Gen.Surgeon and he loves his job,even though he loses half his income just for those taxes...maybe you never saw it or something,but hey,take a teacher,at university,who studied over 15 years to finally get his Ph.D. and still gets 80k year...i don't know why the excuse "i am an M.D. so i deserve more" still holds to justify a physician's pay...Also,for the M.B.A.,anyone who studied marketing + M.B.A. gets ATLEAST 110k/year at start + a signing bonus of about 15-30k...it's also less stressfull than a physician,so if money is your main idea,go for it,not M.D... Not trying to argue or anything,i'm totally with the physician's opinions about the salaries,but seriously,these threads featuring people saying "im gunna get into neurosurg or radiology cuz it pays high"are just going way too far... I mean,if there's no real passion/interest and you're JUST *****ing on the government for a better pay,what kind of physician it would make ?... Keep in mind that doctors have LOTS of responsabilities,they usually work overtime and never gets more...doing something you don't like will make your grave dig faster,nothing more,nothing less. Anyways,i know you understood my message... Bye^^ What the hell is wrong with you? DOCTORS make ALOT of money. They have the highest average income of any macroprofession (yes small subgroups of bankers and lawyers may average more, but those jobs are not guaranteed - doctors virtually cannot get fired unless they do something grossly incompetent. Most businesses do not succeed in the long run, or generate relatively moderate incomes to the owners. Doctors, where I grew up, all lived in big homes. Their children often went to high level private schools. They drove nice cars, went on frequent vacations, and seem to retire well. Taxes ARE not as high as this fool thinks. Taxes use marginal rates - so income made beyond a certain point (110K or so), the tax rate is the same - around 50%ish!!! 800K a year optho - after expenses you get 650K or so. After taxes...350K to spend. And things that most people have to buy anyways - like internet, car, computer, dinners with other doctor friends ('business meeting'!) can be written off!!! THAT is insane. The average person makes 45K a year...after tax...35K (working full time). Considering we all have to eat, transport ourselves, house ourselves, etc - the amount of disposable income available to a doctor compared to average income earners is insane!! Find me a profession (not business owner) where that is the norm. THERE IS NONE. Even among investment bankers - that income only goes regularly to select senior bankers in a few world cities like NYC. Discouraging people from becoming doctors because of financial considerations is insane. Becoming a doctor IS POPULAR because doctors make alot of money, and in N America, always have. There is also prestige, helping people, becoming a community leader, etc! Sure, you won't become a billionaire. Big whoop dee doo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest success100 Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 What the hell is wrong with you? DOCTORS make ALOT of money. They have the highest average income of any macroprofession (yes small subgroups of bankers and lawyers may average more, but those jobs are not guaranteed - doctors virtually cannot get fired unless they do something grossly incompetent. Most businesses do not succeed in the long run, or generate relatively moderate incomes to the owners. Doctors, where I grew up, all lived in big homes. Their children often went to high level private schools. They drove nice cars, went on frequent vacations, and seem to retire well. Taxes ARE not as high as this fool thinks. Taxes use marginal rates - so income made beyond a certain point (110K or so), the tax rate is the same - around 50%ish!!! 800K a year optho - after expenses you get 650K or so. After taxes...350K to spend. And things that most people have to buy anyways - like internet, car, computer, dinners with other doctor friends ('business meeting'!) can be written off!!! THAT is insane. The average person makes 45K a year...after tax...35K (working full time). Considering we all have to eat, transport ourselves, house ourselves, etc - the amount of disposable income available to a doctor compared to average income earners is insane!! Find me a profession (not business owner) where that is the norm. THERE IS NONE. Even among investment bankers - that income only goes regularly to select senior bankers in a few world cities like NYC. Discouraging people from becoming doctors because of financial considerations is insane. Becoming a doctor IS POPULAR because doctors make alot of money, and in N America, always have. There is also prestige, helping people, becoming a community leader, etc! Sure, you won't become a billionaire. Big whoop dee doo. Why do you act like that?I'm not discouraging anyone lol... Well,if you felt offended or something,sorry for that... Anyways,you didn't understood my point,don't get into med just because of money and prestige...because you won't have time to chill that much,trust me. Not every doctor makes 800k/year,surgeons usually make around 350k/year. Maybe,if you're lucky,you can get over 500k,but it's not everyone... Not everyone wants to become a specialist too,anyways,during the interview for the specialty,i dare you to tell them that money and fame is you're only idea,good luck for the next step..lol If that's you're only aim,you better give up,that's just an illusion for the nerds who think they will live a "Bill Gate's life"...i wasn't saying doctors don't make crap regarding money,god,i always have to repeat and no one understands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinch Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 I'm already in medicine. I also noticed that you are in Quebec, where the government screws it's doctors on a regular basis with low pay and high taxes. Come to Ontario or BC when you're done. You'll live like a king! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest success100 Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 I'm already in medicine. I also noticed that you are in Quebec, where the government screws it's doctors on a regular basis with low pay and high taxes. Come to Ontario or BC when you're done. You'll live like a king! Yea...figured it out...once i get my M.D. + residency,if the situation doesn't become better in quebec,i may move to other places,ontario,or even the U.S. So much open posts in quebec...(almost 50% of specialists left in the last 8 years.) The "Association des médecins spécialistes du québec" will sue the government in a few months to get better salaries/advantages... A family doc in QC gets around 140-160k/year. A family doc in other parts of canada gets ATLEAST 190k/year,and it goes up fast. It's even more unrealistic for specialists in QC... That's becoming pretty ridiculous...so yea,in a few years,i'll make a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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