Cut-offs soon

[sharpee]

Those students have supportive parents or external income sources. You simply cannot get a 300k loan in this country (probably the world) without a co-signor (i.e. rich parents).

 

if your parents were "rich" you wouldn't need the loan.

[HBP]

Yeah...cut HBP some slack.

 

The poor guy just had his life long dreams crushed. A little bit of steam release should be allowed.

 

I wouldn't say crushed. Still have shots elsewhere (despite what you think), and if not, just pushed back one year. Not a big deal to me, was fully prepared to take an extra year at school because of my "essentially" non-school year in first year.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure if this is you being empathetic or cocky.

[solarsystem]

Actually, if from Toronto, that probably won't be good enough for queens, uwo, toronto, NOMS, ottawa, and mcmaster (looking at previous stats).

 

[Toronto undergrad gpa average for undergrad applicants is in the 3.94-3.95 range.

MAC cGPA average is in the 3.91 range - but with verbal coming in, may drop to 3.85ish...but probably with an 11 verbal average and needing an awesome score on the essay questions.

Ottawa...if from GTA...zero chance

NOMEs...zero chance

UWO/Queen's...shut out this year

OOP - essentially minimal chance anywhere...mcgill and dal being the only reasonable longshots based on the mcat and gpa as personality/essay is very important to dal and mcgill.

 

I feel sorry for HBP especially...he may have to move to another province to have a chance at his dream...or look at another career...or move overseas...or rewrite the mcat.

 

Hey sfinch, is that wGPA or cGPA for u of t?

[HBP]

^ It's a made-up wGPA. Something you probably shouldn't believe with any more certainty than Santa Claus being fat and white.

[sv3]

going to the US really isnt a viable option for most people considering the exorbitant cost of education which exceeds the maximum bank loan you can get in canada.

 

it is tough no doubt. but if you can do it, you don't need to be a math major to realize if you stay in the US for a short while after, the amount you earn will let you pay back that big deficit much quicker than you think. The large debt shouldnt really scare anyone if they are willing to stay in the US for a bit after. It's a matter of mustering up the money that matters.

[Pantaloons]

Toronto undergrad gpa average for undergrad applicants is in the 3.94-3.95 range.

MAC cGPA average is in the 3.91 range - but with verbal coming in, may drop to 3.85ish...but probably with an 11 verbal average and needing an awesome score on the essay questions.

 

Hey sfinch, is that wGPA or cGPA for u of t?

 

sfinch is incorrect.

The mean GPA for successful applicants to UofT in the 2009/10 entrance year was 3.89

The mean GPA for Mac in 2008/09 was 3.86 (most recent available data).

http://www.afmc.ca/publications-admission-2009-e.php

 

Don't be so quick to believe some anonymous dude on the internet just because he'll often spout off numbers, supposition, and speculation with supreme confidence.

[HBP]

^ He's speculates, "because the UT reported GPA is a blend of graduate/undergraduate GPA, the portion of undergrads actually have a considerably higher GPA average".

 

Regardless, he does not have data to support his conclusion. He uses "basic statistics" without proper data (i.e. he's a clown).

[rmorelan]

sfinch is incorrect.

The mean GPA for UofT in the 2009/10 entrance year was 3.89

The mean GPA for Mac in 2008/09 was 3.86 (most recent available data).

http://www.afmc.ca/publications-admission-2009-e.php

 

Don't be so quick to believe some anonymous dude on the internet just because he'll often spout off numbers, supposition, and speculation with supreme confidence.

 

If I follow sfinches logic - the problem is separately out the grad apps (with which a lot of people assume have a considerably lower GPA) from the UG ones. Makes the computation awkward.

 

If you assume a 3.7 GPA of those grads, 30% of the class being grads and with a 3.89 overall average gives us

 

3.7*0.3 + x*0.7 = 1 x 3.89

 

solves for x, gives us a 3.97 for the UG average.

 

Now if that grad average is 3.8 GPA then the average falls to 3.92,

a 3.85 gives a 3.91, and 3.9 gives a 3.89.

and so on.

 

Could easily be something wrong with this logic of course For one thing it assumes averages are normal and not somehow skewed -ie if the average is 3.97 is it just as likely to have a 4.0 as a 3.94 in the accepted class. Skewing would result in more people with somewhat lower GPAs getting in. It is quite possible that results are skewed with proproptionally fewer close to 4.0 pulling up the overall average etc. Afterall it should be harder to get the higher grades. Knowly another measure of central tendancy like median would help sort out that.

 

It also assumes they are reporting post wGPA which I am not sure of (likely they are though). Even a few fewer than 30% grads would move the numbers down. Also last year was 3.89 but the in past it was 3.86 etc, and even 0.03 seriously modifies the math.

[nemesis]

sfinch is incorrect.

The mean GPA for successful applicants to UofT in the 2009/10 entrance year was 3.89

The mean GPA for Mac in 2008/09 was 3.86 (most recent available data).

http://www.afmc.ca/publications-admission-2009-e.php

 

Don't be so quick to believe some anonymous dude on the internet just because he'll often spout off numbers, supposition, and speculation with supreme confidence.

 

Agreed.

 

We have heard from Leslie Taylor (Toronto Admission Officer) that an undergraduate GPA (whether or not you are eligible for the weighting formula) of 3.8+ is competitive.

 

Since academics play such a large role in the admission process at Toronto (60% weighting pre- and post-interview), it is clear that the higher your GPA, the better your chances.

 

That being said, saying that undergraduate applicants with GPAs<3.9 have no chance of interview/admission is simply not true. The pre-interview file review at Toronto is thorough (unlike many other Ontario medical schools) and one shouldn't discount the importance of the remainder of the application (i.e. references, personal statement, autobiographical sketch, etc.)

[HBP]

If I follow sfinches logic - the problem is separately out the grad apps (with which a lot of people assume have a considerably lower GPA) from the UG ones. Makes the computation awkward.

 

If you assume a 3.7 GPA of those grads, 30% of the class being grads and with a 3.89 overall average gives us

 

3.7*0.3 + x*0.7 = 1 x 3.89

 

solves for x, gives us a 3.97 for the UG average.

 

Now if that grad average is 3.8 GPA then the average falls to 3.92,

a 3.85 gives a 3.91, and 3.9 gives a 3.89.

and so on.

 

Could easily be something wrong with this logic of course

 

The logic is fine.

 

The two biggest problems are:

 

1) Last year was the double cohort ripple, more students coming out of the graduate stream. In short, we have no idea that the number of graduate students will stay the same. In fact, I believe this year was somewhere around 700? 700/3106 = 22.5%

 

700 source: http://utmedadmissions.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/graduate-applicant-notes/#comments

 

 

Hi Laura. You can include the sealed updated transcript in your package. We will accept it either way, but when everything comes in at once, it’s a bit easier for us. (Over 700 graduate applicants means a rather large volume of paper coming in at this time of year :-)

 

2) No idea what the graduate GPA is, which you mentioned.

[Leon]

I think it's pretty much useless to speculate so intensely, using numerical figures. We're talking about decimal point differences. There are just too many factors and after all this speculation, the academics is only 60%! Just apply and wait and see. If you have a 3.8+, then hope for an interview. If you don't then apply anyway. You never know.

 

 

And, newbies, research a person's former posts before accepting his/her words as your execution sentence.

[rmorelan]

The logic is fine.

 

The two biggest problems are:

 

1) Last year was the double cohort ripple, more students coming out of the graduate stream. In short, we have no idea that the number of graduate students will stay the same. In fact, I believe this year was somewhere around 700? 700/3106 = 22.5%

 

700 source: http://utmedadmissions.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/graduate-applicant-notes/#comments

 

 

 

2) No idea what the graduate GPA is, which you mentioned.

 

Excellent This is kind of my point actually, I understand where sfinch is derriving the numbers from and there is some logic to it. However it is based on numerous assumptions that cannot be properly verified. Speculation is easy, math is fun but personally I have to trust the admissions people themselves, which have always told me that something above 3.80, and particularly 3.85+ falls into the competitive range

[nemesis]

I think it's pretty much useless to speculate so intensely, using numerical figures. We're talking about decimal point differences. There are just too many factors and after all this speculation, the academics is only 60%! Just apply and wait and see. If you have a 3.8+, then hope for an interview. If you don't then apply anyway. You never know.

 

 

And, newbies, research a person's former posts before accepting his/her words as your execution sentence.

 

Only 60%?

 

A 60% post-interview academic (solely GPA) weighting is far higher than Western (25%), McMaster (15%) and Queen's (zero).

 

Excellent This is kind of my point actually, I understand where sfinch is derriving the numbers from and there is some logic to it. However it is based on numerous assumptions that cannot be properly verified. Speculation is easy, math is fun but personally I have to trust the admissions people themselves, which have always told me that something above 3.80, and particularly 3.85+ falls into the competitive range

 

+1

[sfinch]

http://www-fhs.mcmaster.ca/mdprog/documents/Classof2012.pdf

 

McMaster average is 3.89. According to MCMASTER UNIVERSITY ITSELF! Cumulative, no marks dropped. You remove 5 of the aboriginal students, who are in the 3.0-3.7 range, and you are at 3.91ish for non aboriginal students.

 

http://www.md.utoronto.ca/admissions/statistics.htm

 

UofT average for undergrad marks is also 3.89. BUT, 30% of their class from the graduate pool, and another few are in the md-phd pool. On average, their marks are lower (just look at last years admit list - many grad students with 3.7 and 3.65 gpas!). If the graduate student had an average aGPA of 3.8, which is high, then the average undergrad has a 3.93ish aGPA. Which matches what the GPAs of virtually anyone we know that gets into UofT from undergrad has.

 

No these are not made up stats. If you want to believe and undergrad student with a 3.85-3.90 has a great chance of getting into UofT, that's fine by me. But it does not make it true.

[HBP]

If you can't see your painfully obvious assumptions, there is no point continuing this discussion.

[nemesis]

presently there is no evidence that the post-interview academic weighting at western is 25%.

 

Fair 'nuff.

 

However, it was in the not-to-distant past and it's unlikely to have increased or decreased tremendously in that time.

 

We do know however that GPA and MCAT scores are currently factored in the post-interview process to further rank order interviewees.

 

So the final decisions are based on 1) interview scores, 2) best two-year GPA, and 3) MCAT scores (although we aren't certain how the three are weighted).

[sfinch]

Last 5 years at UofT: 3.89, 3.89, 3.90, 3.87, 3.87.

 

Leslie states one is competitive if over 3.8. That is true in that you have a chance. BUT IT IS A SMALL CHANCE. Once again, I challenge people here to find many people in that class with 3.8s with only undergrad alone. I know lots of people in that class, and met a bunch last week in quebec city. I did ask a few what the ranges were - it appears almost all the undergrad group had 3.90+.

 

If you have a aGPA over 3.80, apply. It's worth the money. But don't count on getting an interview. It probably won't happen.

 

How people can deny this obvious truth is beyond me. But we'll keep track this year. We have enough data of applicants applying to UofT. Lets see who gets interviews.

[sfinch]

Western used to be 1/3 interview, 1/3 mcat, 1/3 gpa prior to the 1/2,1/4,1/4 split. We have no idea what it is now. It is mere speculation.

[nemesis]

Western used to be 1/3 interview, 1/3 mcat, 1/3 gpa prior to the 1/2,1/4,1/4 split. We have no idea what it is now. It is mere speculation.

 

I wonder why this information isn't available in the 2009-2010 Admissions PDF...

 

...I suppose the more clandestine the process, the more flexibility the adcoms have...but one has to think that they follow some guidelines.

[sharpee]

http://www.cpso.on.ca/policies/policies/default.aspx?id=2352

 

enjoy

[rmorelan]

I wonder why this information isn't available in the 2009-2010 Admissions PDF...

 

...I suppose the more clandestine the process, the more flexibility the adcoms have...but one has to think that they follow some guidelines.

 

Yeah it is a bit vague - we are hoping to change that, but unfortunately pretty much all the schools have vagueness somewhere. Even the schools we know use particularly percentages we aren't sure how they use the GPA exactly to compute it - annoying.

 

Admins do love having flexiblity and not having to explain anything. It understandably does make their jobs easier and if I had to do this every year I might want to have a bit of breathing room as well.

[AdamP]

I know lots of people in that class, and met a bunch last week in quebec city. I did ask a few what the ranges were.

 

bahahaha, sorry.

 

you must be boring to party with.

 

i love ya tho.

[hastin11]

Last 5 years at UofT: 3.89, 3.89, 3.90, 3.87, 3.87.

 

Leslie states one is competitive if over 3.8. That is true in that you have a chance. BUT IT IS A SMALL CHANCE. Once again, I challenge people here to find many people in that class with 3.8s with only undergrad alone. I know lots of people in that class, and met a bunch last week in quebec city. I did ask a few what the ranges were - it appears almost all the undergrad group had 3.90+.

 

If you have a aGPA over 3.80, apply. It's worth the money. But don't count on getting an interview. It probably won't happen.

 

How people can deny this obvious truth is beyond me. But we'll keep track this year. We have enough data of applicants applying to UofT. Lets see who gets interviews.

 

 

You are right, its just tough for people to accept. I had a hard time with this at first as well. It is difficult to realize that your chances are far lower than you thought.

[Typical Premed]

I seriously don't think he is who he says he is. He says he was in QC, but everyone knows medgames was at Laval this year, and anyone could easily say that to corroborate their fictitious story.

 

Laval is in Quebec City.

[Typical Premed]

No kidding, everyone knows that. His fictitious story is about him going to QC because he's supposedly in "UWO Meds 2013" and participated in medgames. Instead of boozing it up and getting laid, he went on to ask multiple U of T ppl their gpa when they entered medical school. It's quite believable huh?

 

Oh nevermind. I agree. I can't imagine anyone discussing GPA at Medgames.