Cut-offs posted

[OCDMed]

10's all around, raising the total score to do the trimming, as well as moving the WS around.

 

That would be my vote.

 

This is also what I would do.

 

I just never understood why they wouldn't just raise the overall score to 31 etc to trim people instead of this haphazard moving around of individual section cutoffs. Is there something taboo about raising the overall score beyond 30???

[rmorelan]

This is also what I would do.

 

I just never understood why they wouldn't just raise the overall score to 31 etc to trim people instead of this haphazard moving around of individual section cutoffs. Is there something taboo about raising the overall score beyond 30???

 

Would mean the cummulative score for swomen and non-swomen would be different(?) I could easy see that actually being taboo actually, as I am sure some people justify the score differences between the two regions by saying it really doesn't matter as ultimately the total is the same.

[estairella]

This is also what I would do.

 

I just never understood why they wouldn't just raise the overall score to 31 etc to trim people instead of this haphazard moving around of individual section cutoffs. Is there something taboo about raising the overall score beyond 30???

 

Probably because raising it to 31 would not be enough. The vast majority don't have a break-down exactly like the cut-offs, and tend to have 31-32+.

 

So you would get all those people going through AND the people who have 31+ who didn't make the VR cut-off.

 

So more likely than not, if they went that route, it would have to be 32 or 33. And because it's "stable" rather than variable year-to-year, then likely people would just take the MCAT until they received the magic number... which would mean inevitable raising of the overall score.

 

Finally, remember that UWO and Queen's both use the cut-off system. Over the past few years, notice how they have NEVER had cut-offs that were in any way similar. This is because they want to interview different pools of students so that they are not poaching from each other when it comes to acceptances.

[Byrne]

Looks like the new "safe" MCAT score to aim for is 33R with 11s across, since 10s across are clearly not cutting it any longer.

 

Pretty insane considering that it falls in the ~90th percentile of test takers.

 

I say an 11 in VR, 11 in PS and 12 in BS with an R in writing is the ultimate safe score. UWO had a 12 as cutoff in BS last year.

[neuronix]

no they didn't.

 

they had an 11.

[ratatat]

I say an 11 in VR, 11 in PS and 12 in BS with an R in writing is the ultimate safe score. UWO had a 12 as cutoff in BS last year.

 

Nah, they had an 11 for BS last year:

 

http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/education/admissions/medicine/documents/Cutoffs2009entry.pdf

 

I agree though, that a 34R with that breakdown is a safe score going forward.

[nonamesleft]

do any of you know anyone that's made the cutoffs and not gotten an interview? Because its posted in western's application procedure/FAQ thing that making the cutoff doesn't guarantee an interview.

[nemesis]

do any of you know anyone that's made the cutoffs and not gotten an interview? Because its posted in western's application procedure/FAQ thing that making the cutoff doesn't guarantee an interview.

 

This technicality has to do with applicants that meet the GPA/MCAT cutoffs but fail to meet the other requirements (full-course loads, four-year honours degree, etc.)

 

Not something to worry about if you carefully read the requirements for Western prior to submitting your application.

[Leon]

This entire system is going to come crashing down in a number of years. The only solution I see is raising the number of seats, which has its own problems.

 

Alas, how twisted.

[sfinch]

Yeah...I think an 11, 11, 12, R is probably the safe score.

 

I did note that about 4000 people get 12 or higher a year in verbal, meaning about 500-600 a year in Canada. I'm sure it's a joke, but I did hear from a friend at Queen's that among the ideas tossed around was using a 12 V cutoff, and simply 9,9,P on everything else WITH an onsite essay. They got rid of the essay, and brought in the R. With 500 Canadians with 12 on verbal, and probably another 200+ from MCAT administrations in previous years still vieing for spots, a 12 V cutoff is not impossible. I think it is very unlikely though.

 

Ultra safe? 12,12,12,S (which I didn't even meet...only an R on the writing sample).

Realistically safe? 11,11,12,R

[ratatat]

Yeah...I think an 11, 11, 12, R is probably the safe score.

 

I did note that about 4000 people get 12 or higher a year in verbal, meaning about 500-600 a year in Canada. I'm sure it's a joke, but I did hear from a friend at Queen's that among the ideas tossed around was using a 12 V cutoff, and simply 9,9,P on everything else WITH an onsite essay. They got rid of the essay, and brought in the R. With 500 Canadians with 12 on verbal, and probably another 200+ from MCAT administrations in previous years still vieing for spots, a 12 V cutoff is not impossible. I think it is very unlikely though.

 

Ultra safe? 12,12,12,S (which I didn't even meet...only an R on the writing sample).

Realistically safe? 11,11,12,R

 

Wow, a 12 in verbal is a MONSTER score. I hope I'm not applying by the time those days come.

[supafield]

The MCAT/Individual school admission criteria will be completely reformatted before things ever get to 12's on cutoffs.

 

In less than 10 years the MCAT won't resemble the test it is today and we'll all be whining about the new Arizona-85-Yellow* cutoffs when we only have blue in the "feats of agility" section.

 

*Note colour scoring follows ROYGBIV with red being the top score.

[RandomGuy]

The MCAT/Individual school admission criteria will be completely reformatted before things ever get to 12's on cutoffs.

 

In less than 10 years the MCAT won't resemble the test it is today and we'll all be whining about the new Arizona-85-Yellow* cutoffs when we only have blue in the "feats of agility" section.

 

*Note colour scoring follows ROYGBIV with red being the top score.

 

Although I know you were joking, I do seriously agree that we would likely see some sort of paradigm shift in how we evaluate medical school applicants before a minimum of 12 was required on an MCAT section. Even the AAMC states that the MCAT grading is less reliable at the extreme scores.

[supafield]

Although I know you were joking, I do seriously agree that we would likely see some sort of paradigm shift in how we evaluate medical school applicants before a minimum of 12 was required on an MCAT section. Even the AAMC states that the MCAT grading is less reliable at the extreme scores.

 

Yes, my joke was only meant to kid about what future pre-meds will be worried about. I truly mean the message behind it.

 

There's an article or two by the AAMC that mentions how completely different the MCAT might be as early as 2014, if I do remember correctly. The have a committee evaluating it's current format and possible directions it will go in the future including measures of cultural competence as well as professionalism etc..

 

(I found a website referring to the committee http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/mr5/start.htm)

 

If there ever came a day where multiple 11's couldn't cutoff the applicant pool, the MCAT will have lost it's use as a cutoff tool.... I would hazard a guess if MCAT scores became that inflated the hard cutoff schools would adopt a more UofT type strategy and use a lesser cutoff to bring the pool down only to a reasonable number to review their files further.

[The Law]

Nah, they had an 11 for BS last year:

 

http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/education/admissions/medicine/documents/Cutoffs2009entry.pdf

 

I agree though, that a 34R with that breakdown is a safe score going forward.

 

Unfortunately, very few people will get such a high balanced score. So most of us are going to be dancing with lady luck when we apply.

[keith_015]

If the old MCAT system of twice per year were in place, inflation wouldn't be quite the issue that it is now. Obviously that is not possible having a CBT twice per year. Also if the test was the same length as it used to be, it would perhaps distinguish the applicants a little bit better.

[rmorelan]

Wow, a 12 in verbal is a MONSTER score. I hope I'm not applying by the time those days come.

 

Well that is to be drop dead safe at ALL schools. It also one point higher than any school has ever had a MCAT cut off in anything (as far as I am aware).

 

It's kind of like saying GPA wise you are only completely safe with a cGPA of 3.95+. Might be technically true, but not particularly useful in the general case

[nemesis]

Probably because raising it to 31 would not be enough. The vast majority don't have a break-down exactly like the cut-offs, and tend to have 31-32+.

 

So you would get all those people going through AND the people who have 31+ who didn't make the VR cut-off.

 

So more likely than not, if they went that route, it would have to be 32 or 33. And because it's "stable" rather than variable year-to-year, then likely people would just take the MCAT until they received the magic number... which would mean inevitable raising of the overall score.

 

Finally, remember that UWO and Queen's both use the cut-off system. Over the past few years, notice how they have NEVER had cut-offs that were in any way similar. This is because they want to interview different pools of students so that they are not poaching from each other when it comes to acceptances.

 

Perhaps, but ultimately, medical schools want the best candidates for their program, and those candidates often receive multiple offers of admissions anyway.

 

I don't know if Western determines its cutoffs while keeping Queen's cutoffs in mind...one would think that these are two independant processes driven by the quality of the applicant pool at the respective institutions (although there is probably significant applicant overall in the two pools).

 

Needless to say, many ppl were unpleasantly surprised with Queen's WS=R cutoffs and most ppl (including myself) were surprised by Western's unusually different cutoffs for 2010 entry (compared to the previous two cycles).

[thatonekid]

The MCAT/Individual school admission criteria will be completely reformatted before things ever get to 12's on cutoffs.

 

In less than 10 years the MCAT won't resemble the test it is today and we'll all be whining about the new Arizona-85-Yellow* cutoffs when we only have blue in the "feats of agility" section.

 

*Note colour scoring follows ROYGBIV with red being the top score.

lol. This made my day.

[ChicoMaki]

This entire system is going to come crashing down in a number of years. The only solution I see is raising the number of seats, which has its own problems.

 

Alas, how twisted.

 

I beg to differ that the only solution is raising the # of seats.

 

They could move to a system like the USA or UofT has - a more holistic approach to the evaluation of applications coupled with more interviews as well. To me, I find it hilarious that it takes until the Middle of January to determine cutoffs when they receive everything by the beginning of December.

 

just my 2 cents

[rmorelan]

I beg to differ that the only solution is raising the # of seats.

 

They could move to a system like the USA or UofT has - a more holistic approach to the evaluation of applications coupled with more interviews as well. To me, I find it hilarious that it takes until the Middle of January to determine cutoffs when they receive everything by the beginning of December.

 

just my 2 cents

 

From the admin's point of view I can hear the response - "what's the rush?". Nobody's interview is until march and 8ish weeks is plenty of time to arrange to get to london for it. They could do it in Dec but with the holidays and exams it is a busy time. After interviews there is another 2+ months before the announcements are made. Nobody is in any sort of hurry here

 

One of the big issues with changing anything is there isn't anything to suggest that the current system results in any problems with those ultimately selected. Means there is no modivation to change anything at all.

[gibson303]

I would think it would be pretty difficult to find out the true nature of why the cutoffs were set the way they were, but in some weird, messed up way there was some sort of rationale for them.

 

That said, I wonder why this standard only applies to NON-SWOMEN, if the cut-offs set, as insisted reflects what they think is the best predictor for success in medicine...then why is it that they are ok with letting in students who don't meet this cut-off (ie. SWOMEN students).

 

It just seems unfair that they would impose such high cut-offs and try to justify it, yet still have SWOMEN cut-offs.

 

Don't get me wrong I understand why we have SWOMEN cut-offs and honestly you cannot tell the difference between a SWOMEN and a NON SWOMEN student in our class, it appears if everyone is on the same level and doesn't seem like anyone is having trouble with the workload at all.

 

but really...whats the point of saying "oh we believe verbal is the predictor that is why we have such a high cut-off...but if you are from SWOMEN, don't worry about it this predictor doesn't apply to you" Apparently the Verbal cut-off is only a valid predictor for students who are NON-SWOMEN.

[HBP]

Convenient justification, often the way many justifications are

[AdamP]

They could move to a system like the USA or UofT has - a more holistic approach to the evaluation of applications coupled with more interviews as well.

 

 

I don't know, I kind of like how each school has it's own preferences that cater to different types of students. If everyone looked at the file exactly the same, then only a certain type of student would be selected for, across every school.

[The Law]

I propose a NEW strategy for selecting students.

 

Two part cutoffs:

1. REASONABLY high mcat & GPA cutoffs.

 

2. The ones that make these cutoffs have a FULL FILE review (a file that will include essays, reference letters, sketch). These students are assigned a score and granted an interview/waitlisted for interview.

 

This way, you combine a cutoff system with a more holistic review process. Using this approach, you place a moderate importance on all aspects of an application, rather than targetting one thing in particular.