iwh333 Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 handsome: i don't know what your EC's and stuff are like, but given that you have all your pre-reqs and everything... if you significantly increase your MCAT, i would say you would have a shot at US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome88 Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 handsome: i don't know what your EC's and stuff are like, but given that you have all your pre-reqs and everything... if you significantly increase your MCAT, i would say you would have a shot at US. if by "significantly" you mean 34+ then i dont think Im able to do that. English is not my first language and I had a lot of trouble with VR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 I also got into SGU. Please if you have any idea of which is the better choice MESSAGE ME. Thank you! Congrats! I do not know the answer to your question but check out relative cost as well as a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb2011 Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 People who got accepted, please post your stats for us!!!!! I got into Trinity (5 yr program =(... ) GPA: 3.6 MCAT: 26 I also got into SGU. Please if you have any idea of which is the better choice MESSAGE ME. Thank you! congrats on getting in!!! so far, i have been rooting for ireland, but in your case maybe SGU is the better choice. 1) SGU is alot cheaper than ireland 2) SGU prepares people THOROUGHLY for the steps, and you will get no preparation at all in ireland 3) my friend who started SGU this year got a presentation from carms about a month ago, advising them that they can now match in canada. according to him, canada will be a better option for residency henceforth albeit not as good as america 4) trinity is a 5 year program. even if you screw up your usmle and went unmatched (a 3.6 tells me you are decent at studying, and this should not happen to you) the first year, trying to match the 2nd year will put you in the same boat as if you went to trinity as SGU is a 4 year program. 5) SGU is one of the best (if not the best) Caribbean schools on the other hand, trinity is world renowned. it is basically the johns hopkins of ireland. also, you have a (slim) choice of staying in ireland after graduation, adding to your option of where to do residency. the extra year of school (5 vs 4 yrs) gives you additional time to network and to study well for the american and canadian exams. however, it is bloody expensive. anyway good luck. congrats again on getting in. its a tough choice choosing between sgu and trinity, depending on how you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 congrats on getting in!!! so far, i have been rooting for ireland, but in your case maybe SGU is the better choice. 1) SGU is alot cheaper than ireland 2) SGU prepares people THOROUGHLY for the steps, and you will get no preparation at all in ireland 3) my friend who started SGU this year got a presentation from carms about a month ago, advising them that they can now match in canada. according to him, canada will be a better option for residency henceforth albeit not as good as america 5) SGU is one of the best (if not the best) Caribbean schools On a cost & risk v. reward basis, it would appear to me that SGU is the way to go. GL in making your choice and in your studies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enmeds Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 What about US DO's versus Ireland or carrib any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 If you can't get into Canada, the order is definitely US MD > US DO > Caribbean = Ireland = Australia If you are able to practice medicine in Ireland/Australia after studying there, those options become infinitely better than the Caribbean. But because I have a feeling you can't do that without citizenship, then the Caribbean wins over because you have similar chances of matching into Canada, and a much better chance at matching into the US than if you went to a Commonwealth school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb2011 Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 If you can't get into Canada, the order is definitely US MD > US DO > Caribbean = Ireland = Australia If you are able to practice medicine in Ireland/Australia after studying there, those options become infinitely better than the Caribbean. But because I have a feeling you can't do that without citizenship, then the Caribbean wins over because you have similar chances of matching into Canada, and a much better chance at matching into the US than if you went to a Commonwealth school. if you want to do residency in canada, the problem with a D.O is that carms only allows you to match for family medicine in TWO provinces. you basically have no other option. I thought about this option too because I think I want to do FM. The only issue is that I also want to do an EM fellowship, and I don't know how D.Os are looked upon for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome88 Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 congrats on getting in!!! so far, i have been rooting for ireland, but in your case maybe SGU is the better choice. 1) SGU is alot cheaper than ireland 2) SGU prepares people THOROUGHLY for the steps, and you will get no preparation at all in ireland 3) my friend who started SGU this year got a presentation from carms about a month ago, advising them that they can now match in canada. according to him, canada will be a better option for residency henceforth albeit not as good as america 4) trinity is a 5 year program. even if you screw up your usmle and went unmatched (a 3.6 tells me you are decent at studying, and this should not happen to you) the first year, trying to match the 2nd year will put you in the same boat as if you went to trinity as SGU is a 4 year program. 5) SGU is one of the best (if not the best) Caribbean schools on the other hand, trinity is world renowned. it is basically the johns hopkins of ireland. also, you have a (slim) choice of staying in ireland after graduation, adding to your option of where to do residency. the extra year of school (5 vs 4 yrs) gives you additional time to network and to study well for the american and canadian exams. however, it is bloody expensive. anyway good luck. congrats again on getting in. its a tough choice choosing between sgu and trinity, depending on how you look at it. Thank you for breaking it down for me. However in terms of costs, they are about the same. Trinity is 36k a year over 5 years, while SGU is ~46k a year over 4 years. Do graduates from Ireland get good residencies like EM/Surgery fairly easily? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb2011 Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Thank you for breaking it down for me.However in terms of costs, they are about the same. Trinity is 36k a year over 5 years, while SGU is ~46k a year over 4 years. Do graduates from Ireland get good residencies like EM/Surgery fairly easily? Thanks when I said sgu was cheaper, I was referring to cost of living as well. I thought trinity was 42 K a year after you convert euros to american dollars. EM/surgery residencies are not easy, even for non-IMGs. However, when you compare ireland to SGU, the match rates are the same. I dont remember where I saw the sticky, but I think it was 33% match rate (carms first round) for caribbean and european IMGs. If I had to guess, it may be slightly easier to obtain EM/Surgery residency as an SGU graduate because you are actually allowed to do rotations in america. I think ireland restricts you to two. In other words, how can you make connections when you are not even in america? If you chose trinity though, I still think it can be done. Just try to destroy your usmile , get high marks and try to shadow people since you cant do as many rotations. also, if you are leaning more towards EM than surgery, you can just do family practice and then one year EM fellowship. Based on the IMG quota on the carms website (over 1000 spots across canada), you can match into FM if you have a pulse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome88 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 when I said sgu was cheaper, I was referring to cost of living as well. I thought trinity was 42 K a year after you convert euros to american dollars. EM/surgery residencies are not easy, even for non-IMGs. However, when you compare ireland to SGU, the match rates are the same. I dont remember where I saw the sticky, but I think it was 33% match rate (carms first round) for caribbean and european IMGs. If I had to guess, it may be slightly easier to obtain EM/Surgery residency as an SGU graduate because you are actually allowed to do rotations in america. I think ireland restricts you to two. In other words, how can you make connections when you are not even in america? If you chose trinity though, I still think it can be done. Just try to destroy your usmile , get high marks and try to shadow people since you cant do as many rotations. also, if you are leaning more towards EM than surgery, you can just do family practice and then one year EM fellowship. Based on the IMG quota on the carms website (over 1000 spots across canada), you can match into FM if you have a pulse... Trinity is US$36k (tuition only). So an elective or two in the US does not suffice for EM? I really want to do EM (Anes is my second choice), Sorry I did not understand what you meant by one year EM fellowship after FM, does that give me a dual FM/EM licensing, making me equal to an EM resident? So what I'm getting out of all this is that the better reputation of Trinity does not matter at all and will not improve my chances (An Ireland Grad with 230 on steps is equal to a SGU grad with the same score), it is the USMLE scores and Reference letters/US experience that really count. If so then SGU is definitely a better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwh333 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 2+1 FM+EM option is cool but you most likely won't be able to practice in a large tertiery center if that is something you are aiming for. you would need the actual 5-year EM residency for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb2011 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Trinity is US$36k (tuition only).So an elective or two in the US does not suffice for EM? I really want to do EM (Anes is my second choice), Sorry I did not understand what you meant by one year EM fellowship after FM, does that give me a dual FM/EM licensing, making me equal to an EM resident? So what I'm getting out of all this is that the better reputation of Trinity does not matter at all and will not improve my chances (An Ireland Grad with 230 on steps is equal to a SGU grad with the same score), it is the USMLE scores and Reference letters/US experience that really count. If so then SGU is definitely a better choice. based on the research I have done, you pretty much summed it up. However, that 230 is hard to get if you are in ireland. if you go look at the match results for SGU, tons of them match to EM/anes. So far, SGU is looking better and better for you. Unless of course you care about stigma... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Woah where are you guys getting this info? You don't even need to write the Step 1 to apply to Canada. There are not 1000 spots for IMGs across Canada. It is not easy to match into FM as an IMG. Be careful who you take information from and always verify everything you read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 2+1 FM+EM option is cool but you most likely won't be able to practice in a large tertiery center if that is something you are aiming for. you would need the actual 5-year EM residency for that. You can work in a tertiary centre as a CCFP-EM. It's harder but I know some that are doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 based on the research I have done, you pretty much summed it up. However, that 230 is hard to get if you are in ireland. if you go look at the match results for SGU, tons of them match to EM/anes. So far, SGU is looking better and better for you. Unless of course you care about stigma... Be careful...those are all predominantly matches for American students. You will not have the same fortune as a foreign doctor who needs a visa sponsorship to do residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb2011 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Woah where are you guys getting this info? You don't even need to write the Step 1 to apply to Canada. There are not 1000 spots for IMGs across Canada. It is not easy to match into FM as an IMG. Be careful who you take information from and always verify everything you read! gee thanks for pointing that out. that extra 0 was a mistake. i meant 100. i got my information from here. http://www.cimsa.ie/PDFs/CIMSAMatch2009.pdf and i never said usmle was for canada. earlier on, i mentioned that handsome probably should write both canadian and american licensing exams. i just assumed most IMGs know they should write both exams to maximize their chances of getting residency anywhere in north america. sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb2011 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Be careful...those are all predominantly matches for American students. You will not have the same fortune as a foreign doctor who needs a visa sponsorship to do residency. yeah you're right. canadians need a statement of need visa (to do residency in america), which is not always guaranteed. leviathan, what do you mean by preliminary? those residency match results have consistently looked like that since early 2000's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviathan Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 yeah you're right. canadians need a statement of need visa (to do residency in america), which is not always guaranteed. leviathan, what do you mean by preliminary? those residency match results have consistently looked like that since early 2000's. A prelim spot is a 1 year internship with no guarantee of an actual residency after. It's almost like a one-year interview with the hospital to see if they like you or not, or if they are willing to write you good reference letter to apply for a categorical spot for your second year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb2011 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 A prelim spot is a 1 year internship with no guarantee of an actual residency after. It's almost like a one-year interview with the hospital to see if they like you or not, or if they are willing to write you good reference letter to apply for a categorical spot for your second year. wow are you serious? i thought they only did this in europe. that is definitely VERY good to know. so when they say EM is a 5 yr residency program, does this include the 1 yr internship you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome88 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 OK so since this is an Irish school thread. And since we've established that Caribbean schools are a better option (from Cost-benefit analysis). Why would anybody apply to Ireland?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb2011 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 OK so since this is an Irish school thread. And since we've established that Caribbean schools are a better option (from Cost-benefit analysis). Why would anybody apply to Ireland?? i applied to ireland because i dont want the stigma of going to a caribbean school. i am not trying to offend anyone. also, i am from a third world country, and i dont really feel like re-living my past. i've heard horror stories about how there is no running water in grenada. as well, we have already established that there is no difference between residency matching in europe vs caribbean. actually, the biggest reason i am going is because my dad wont pay for me to go to the caribbean. again, no offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome88 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 i applied to ireland because i dont want the stigma of going to a caribbean school. i am not trying to offend anyone. also, i am from a third world country, and i dont really feel like re-living my past. i've heard horror stories about how there is no running water in grenada. as well, we have already established that there is no difference between residency matching in europe vs caribbean. actually, the biggest reason i am going is because my dad wont pay for me to go to the caribbean. again, no offence. Completely understand where you are coming from. I'm just very afraid of continuing to fight an uphill battle. I've put myself in a disadvantage by going to a highly reputable school which just loves to lower its students grades (can you guess which?). I dont want this to keep happening to me. I just want to live normally... I don't mind studying, but I did not get back any reinforcement/reward for the amount of effort I put in. It seems like it will happen again if I go to Ireland. Just because SGU has this stigma, which I believe can go away after residency in the US, I don't think I should pay extra and put myself at a disadvantage (not enough US experience, higher costs). PS. Dont forget that you are only staying 18 months in Grenada, then you will be in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb2011 Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Completely understand where you are coming from. I'm just very afraid of continuing to fight an uphill battle. I've put myself in a disadvantage by going to a highly reputable school which just loves to lower its students grades (can you guess which?). I dont want this to keep happening to me. I just want to live normally... I don't mind studying, but I did not get back any reinforcement/reward for the amount of effort I put in. It seems like it will happen again if I go to Ireland. Just because SGU has this stigma, which I believe can go away after residency in the US, I don't think I should pay extra and put myself at a disadvantage (not enough US experience, higher costs). PS. Dont forget that you are only staying 18 months in Grenada, then you will be in the US. all very true! however, i would argue that becoming a physician won't let u live a normal life. u go to u of t? I heard they have not given out a 4.0 in many years. lol. I'm here as well...but only doing a master's. well, i dont know if we have any evidence suggesting that trinity will lower your grades just because they are trinity. US experience definitely sucks, but to address your previous question, i dont know if two will suffice for EM. I have stumbled upon some hospital websites which declared that they need 'extensive experience'. dont know if 2 is extensive. if i get into UCD or trinity though, i'll probably do some shadowing and more research (unfortunately) to compensate for the lack of clinicals. i know i'll match for something somewhere, even if it is just FM. not looking to do surgery or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 You may not be considering applying to CaRMS (you may be planning to go straight to the US match), but if you're interested, you can see how many Canadian students who received their MDs in a particular country have acquired residency in Canada in the last five years. It gives the number by country (page 48). Irish schools do well overall, though this table doesn't permit you to separate their matches individually. To steal the Grenada reference above, in the last five years, 10 Canadians who graduated from Grenada school(s) matched in the CaRMS match and are currently residents. It DOES NOT tell you how many people applied, only how many were accepted. http://www.caper.ca/docs/pdf_2008-09_CAPER_Census.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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